Josh Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 So I just bought a hoverboard off eBay and realizing its unbranded and has a cheap li-ion battery. Instead of returning the product can I just replace the battery/charger with name brand ones like a Samsung li-ion? It's a Bluetooth "Smart Balance Wheel". Would it be safe to replace the battery? If so which battery would you recommend and how would I go about doing so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 There are a bunch of videos on Youtube about building battery packs with new 18650 cells, or even salvaging old ones from notebook battery packs. Ideally you should have a spot welding setup to minimize the heating of the cell, but soldering can work if you're careful. I haven't heard whether anyone analyzed the failures but it is possible that the charger failed so replacing it would be a good idea as well. You could buy one of the name brand chargers from Amazon that say they're for LiPo and have the right voltage. Is it really worth all that work though? You'll have invested a lot of money in this thing in short order, and who knows whether the control board is going to hold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 2 hours ago, dmethvin said: There are a bunch of videos on Youtube about building battery packs with new 18650 cells, or even salvaging old ones from notebook battery packs. Ideally you should have a spot welding setup to minimize the heating of the cell, but soldering can work if you're careful. I haven't heard whether anyone analyzed the failures but it is possible that the charger failed so replacing it would be a good idea as well. You could buy one of the name brand chargers from Amazon that say they're for LiPo and have the right voltage. Is it really worth all that work though? You'll have invested a lot of money in this thing in short order, and who knows whether the control board is going to hold up. I didn't realize how much work it was to just change the battery but if the current battery is at "risk" to catch fire and/or explode than I would put some effort into making it so the board doesn't blow up on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checho Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Check if the current battery is Japanese if it is it is safe. In regards the charger monitor the output voltage it should not overcharge, measure the voltage under load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 14 hours ago, checho said: Check if the current battery is Japanese if it is it is safe. In regards the charger monitor the output voltage it should not overcharge, measure the voltage under load. How would I know the difference between a Japanese battery and American/Chinese? I messaged the seller and she said it was a FuNeng battery. First off what the heck is a FuNeng battey? Second, is it American, Chinese, or Japanese? Third, is it safe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I have no idea whether a FuNeng battery is good quality or not, but the odds are that it isn't one of the best since they're trying to keep the price low. The two brands that I know of that are good quality are Sony and Samsung. The problem is that the counterfeiters know those brands are considered good and will make fakes since those fakes sell for a higher price. http://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-wholesale-battery-reviews/30828867-is-it-a-fake-18650-battery-featuring-the-samsung-25r If you look on Youtube for "fake 18650 battery" you will find a lot of videos showing crazy stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 2 minutes ago, dmethvin said: I have no idea whether a FuNeng battery is good quality or not, but the odds are that it isn't one of the best since they're trying to keep the price low. The two brands that I know of that are good quality are Sony and Samsung. The problem is that the counterfeiters know those brands are considered good and will make fakes since those fakes sell for a higher price. http://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-wholesale-battery-reviews/30828867-is-it-a-fake-18650-battery-featuring-the-samsung-25r If you look on Youtube for "fake 18650 battery" you will find a lot of videos showing crazy stuff. Thanks. How can I know if the battery is Japanese or not that's in my board currently? Also if its not do you know where I can find a good quality, name brand battery such as Samsung or LG (or even Sony) for a reasonable price? I know im sounding very picky but I've seen many hoverboards burst into flames and burn down houses and I really don't want that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 7 minutes ago, Josh said: Thanks. How can I know if the battery is Japanese or not that's in my board currently? Also if its not do you know where I can find a good quality, name brand battery such as Samsung or LG (or even Sony) for a reasonable price? I know im sounding very picky but I've seen many hoverboards burst into flames and burn down houses and I really don't want that to happen. If you search for FuNeng it looks like it's a Chinese battery from the Shenzen region. It's hard to know whether the quality is good without having some testing tools like the ones in that article. I wouldn't focus on Japanese in particular, I believe the Samsung batteries are made in Korea. As for where you can buy a small number of good quality batteries, maybe @esaj knows because he has built some custom packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 minute ago, dmethvin said: If you search for FuNeng it looks like it's a Chinese battery from the Shenzen region. It's hard to know whether the quality is good without having some testing tools like the ones in that article. I wouldn't focus on Japanese in particular, I believe the Samsung batteries are made in Korea. As for where you can buy a small number of good quality batteries, maybe @esaj knows because he has built some custom packs. Ok. Later today I plan on opening the back to see if it is a good battery and i'll do some research on what I find. I mean im not for sure that its true because the seller also said that the board was CC, FCC, and RoHS certified and I looked everywhere on the board (mainly on bottom) and found nothing. Not even the warning labels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Don't know anything about FuNeng, might be a factory producing battery from whatever cells the customer wants (and is ready to pay for)? "Good quality for a reasonable price" might be somewhat hard to find, depending what you consider "reasonable price"... the safest (but probably not cheapest) way would be buying domestically from a trustworthy company (maybe an e-bike company could build them for you). Internationally, at least 1RadWerkstatt seems to produce high quality packs (don't know if they build them for other devices than EUCs, could be), but depending on your location, the shipping & customs might make it pretty expensive in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Just now, esaj said: Don't know anything about FuNeng, might be a factory producing battery from whatever cells the customer wants (and is ready to pay for)? "Good quality for a reasonable price" might be somewhat hard to find, depending what you consider "reasonable price"... the safest (but probably not cheapest) way would be buying domestically from a trustworthy company (maybe an e-bike company could build them for you). Internationally, at least 1RadWerkstatt seems to produce high quality packs (don't know if they build them for other devices than EUCs, could be), but depending on your location, the shipping & customs might make it pretty expensive in the end. Reasonable price for me is about $50-$80. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Yeah I am not sure any of those no-name hoverboards sold on eBay are certified in any way. I would believe the top-end ones like the Boosted Board or PhunkeeDuck have some certifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 minute ago, dmethvin said: Yeah I am not sure any of those no-name hoverboards sold on eBay are certified in any way. I would believe the top-end ones like the Boosted Board or PhunkeeDuck have some certifications. Yea Phunkeeduck is wayyy out of my price range. The most i'm willing to pay is around $400 probably max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 7 minutes ago, Josh said: Reasonable price for me is about $50-$80. Thanks Might be hard to get a good quality 10S-pack (I think most hoverboards have 10S-packs?) for that price (at least with high quality cells, especially if it needs to be custom-built), but I haven't researched the prices in US (I'm assuming that's where you're from). Back when I was researching for the cells for my custom-packs about 5-6 months ago, my research indicated that LG MJ1 were pretty much the top-of-the-line for electric vehicles (I ended up with the slightly cheaper, bit lower capacity version, the LG MH1's). This will probably give you an idea what they cost (this is just 4 cells, on top of 10? of these per pack, you need a BMS-board and spot-welding/wiring work): http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-X-LG-MJ1-3500MAH-High-Drain-INR18650-MJ1-Rechargeable-batteries-includes-cases-/191693319716?hash=item2ca1cfee24 Of course, like said, those are pretty much the best cells currently available, so naturally they're not cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 2 minutes ago, esaj said: Might be hard to get a good quality 10S-pack (I think most hoverboards have 10S-packs?) for that price (at least with high quality cells, especially if it needs to be custom-built), but I haven't researched the prices in US (I'm assuming that's where you're from). Back when I was researching for the cells for my custom-packs about 5-6 months ago, my research indicated that LG MJ1 were pretty much the top-of-the-line for electric vehicles (I ended up with the slightly cheaper, bit lower capacity version, the LG MH1's). This will probably give you an idea what they cost (this is just 4 cells, on top of 10? of these per pack, you need a BMS-board and spot-welding/wiring work): http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-X-LG-MJ1-3500MAH-High-Drain-INR18650-MJ1-Rechargeable-batteries-includes-cases-/191693319716?hash=item2ca1cfee24 Of course, like said, those are pretty much the best cells currently available, so naturally they're not cheap. Well I have no clue how to spot weld and I don't know anyone who can either. I was hoping to find a pre-build battery (unless you meant I have to spot weld the battery into the board). And yes I am in the Pacific (western) side of the US. And $50-$80 was just "reasonable" prices. If I have to go higher like maybe $100+ I'll have to think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Just now, Josh said: Yea Phunkeeduck is wayyy out of my price range. The most i'm willing to pay is around $400 probably max. I think that's the crux of the problem here. If you want good quality components, certifications, and some reasonable level of support if there is a problem, you have to pay a price for it. This is why the Solowheel guys are getting beaten in the EUC world. They're competing against manufacturers who sell low quality at low prices and aren't held responsible if they hurt you with faulty components or burn down your house with bad batteries. I guess the hoverboards have this problem even worse than EUCs because there's not as much of a learning curve and it's this year's fad product. Average consumers are buying them and not realizing they are on their own. Our mall has a little kiosk with a stack of these generic ones but I don't think they've been selling well lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Just now, Josh said: Well I have no clue how to spot weld and I don't know anyone who can either. I was hoping to find a pre-build battery (unless you meant I have to spot weld the battery into the board). And yes I am in the Pacific (western) side of the US. No, I'm not expecting you to do it yourself, but maybe something like an e-bike company could build the pack for you, if they have the equipment... ask around. Don't know if anyone outside China is selling pre-made packs, maybe ask domestic hoverboard resellers if they've got replacement packs for sale. Then there's of course ebay/amazon/aliexpress etc. but shipping larger li-ion -packs isn't exactly fast right now due to shipping bans, and you can't be that sure what you're getting. For your price range, finding a pack with good quality cells could be pretty difficult (but I could be wrong)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 minute ago, dmethvin said: I think that's the crux of the problem here. If you want good quality components, certifications, and some reasonable level of support if there is a problem, you have to pay a price for it. This is why the Solowheel guys are getting beaten in the EUC world. They're competing against manufacturers who sell low quality at low prices and aren't held responsible if they hurt you with faulty components or burn down your house with bad batteries. I guess the hoverboards have this problem even worse than EUCs because there's not as much of a learning curve and it's this year's fad product. Average consumers are buying them and not realizing they are on their own. Our mall has a little kiosk with a stack of these generic ones but I don't think they've been selling well lately. I mean if I have to pay $450 for a safe board that could be safe and have no destruction done I guess thats the price I've gotta pay 2 minutes ago, esaj said: No, I'm not expecting you to do it yourself, but maybe something like an e-bike company could build the pack for you, if they have the equipment... ask around. Don't know if anyone outside China is selling pre-made packs, maybe ask domestic hoverboard resellers if they've got replacement packs for sale. Then there's of course ebay/amazon/aliexpress etc. but shipping larger li-ion -packs isn't exactly fast right now due to shipping bans, and you can't be that sure what you're getting. For your price range, finding a pack with good quality cells could be pretty difficult (but I could be wrong)... The range I gave you was really just kinda an expectation on what they would cost and would satisfy me. I will definately go out of that range if it means quality packs and safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 2 minutes ago, dmethvin said: I think that's the crux of the problem here. If you want good quality components, certifications, and some reasonable level of support if there is a problem, you have to pay a price for it. This is why the Solowheel guys are getting beaten in the EUC world. They're competing against manufacturers who sell low quality at low prices and aren't held responsible if they hurt you with faulty components or burn down your house with bad batteries. I guess the hoverboards have this problem even worse than EUCs because there's not as much of a learning curve and it's this year's fad product. Average consumers are buying them and not realizing they are on their own. Our mall has a little kiosk with a stack of these generic ones but I don't think they've been selling well lately. Yeah, even if the manufacturers could get high quality cells cheaply (by ordering large batches, like thousands of cells at one go), I doubt the cheap models ever have good batteries... Then of course there's the "cottage industry"-manufacturers scraping the boards together from whatever parts they happen to get for the cheapest price. Battery and the motor(s) are the most expensive parts, so you can bet they're not using anything resembling high quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 minute ago, esaj said: Yeah, even if the manufacturers could get high quality cells cheaply (by ordering large batches, like thousands of cells at one go), I doubt the cheap models ever have good batteries... Then of course there's the "cottage industry"-manufacturers scraping the boards together from whatever parts they happen to get for the cheapest price. Battery and the motor(s) are the most expensive parts, so you can bet they're not using anything resembling high quality. How about this: forget my price range/budget I just want to find good quality packs that will fit my board. Btw my board is one of the other designs that has bluetooth: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/IO-Hawk-Uwheel-Airboard-Future-Foot-Monorover-Hoverboard-Smart-Electric-Skate-iScooter-2-Two-Wheel-standing/1924251_32499356629.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 9 minutes ago, Josh said: How about this: forget my price range/budget I just want to find good quality packs that will fit my board. Btw my board is one of the other designs that has bluetooth: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/IO-Hawk-Uwheel-Airboard-Future-Foot-Monorover-Hoverboard-Smart-Electric-Skate-iScooter-2-Two-Wheel-standing/1924251_32499356629.html Unfortunately the link doesn't seem to work at least for me (goes to a 404 not found-page). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 3 minutes ago, esaj said: Unfortunately the link doesn't seem to work at least for me (goes to a 404 not found-page). Your right sorry about that. Heres the board I have exactly (probs different battert/seller however). Sorry for how large it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 One thing I have noticed is that none of the boards that have caught fire happen to be the model/design that I have. Is that a coincidence or is it just a design fault and im almost safe? @dmethvin @esaj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esqueue Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 The thing about identifying the battery is even if it is labeled samsung as mine is, I still don't trust it. How easy is it to swap a label. I guess you can cut the plastic wrapping around the cell but I don't know if the cells will have samsung written on them. Any sub $500 board is most likely a clone and can catch fire. Being more than $500 doesn't mean anything either. I honestly believe that the only true and cheap way to get a safe cell is to build your own or buy one of those ridiculously priced name brand boards. These boards aren't really worth investing too much money in either. The balance boards can die from just attempting to calibrate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checho Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 7 hours ago, Josh said: How would I know the difference between a Japanese battery and American/Chinese? I messaged the seller and she said it was a FuNeng battery. First off what the heck is a FuNeng battey? Second, is it American, Chinese, or Japanese? Third, is it safe? Assuming the label is not fake and it was purchased from a reputable vendor, strip some of the plastic of the wrapping of the battery pack and take a look at the battery, name brand batteries will be labeled, and to make sure they are legitimate you could have a controlled discharge in which you measure the watts drawn, the watts drawn should approximately match the battery capacity, if it is way off like getting 50% of advertised capacity it is either fake or very low quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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