Should I avoid hollow motors and go for an older model like the MSP?

[Gilleree]

I am looking to enter the world of EUCs. I personally don’t want to get a beater wheel. I want to make a single purchase with a good wheel that I can grow into and rely on (budget up to 2000€). The two wheels I had my eye on are the InMotion V11 and the Gotway RS19 HT. 

I have since discovered the problems with the bearings due to the hollow motor and now I am a bit worried getting either of them. I want to ride in Belgium which is a very rainy country. Even if I don’t ride directly in the rain, there are often times the road will still be wet. It seems that neither of these wheels have a good track record with their bearings so I do not know how to proceed. 

Would you folks recommend getting one of the two and relying on a 1/2 year warranty to keep me going with spares etc or should I try to get my hands on the Gotway MSP HT and do my own waterproofing?

[mrelwood]

That’s a good and difficult question. I guess it depends on the level of risk you’re willing to take, and maybe even more importantly whether you have a distributor you can easily get the wheel back to if something goes wrong.

[Gilleree]

I am trying to weigh the ups and downs. MyEWheel seems like a good reputable vendor here in Europe so if I do order the RS or V11, I hope I will be covered with the warranty in that department. I am a bit worried about replacing any broken parts myself but at the same feel like it would be a good incentive to open up the wheel and become more comfortable with repairing it myself.

My one worry is that I wait too long to order an MSP and they run out of stock everywhere. I see them on a few websites for decent prices and on others it is being sold for silly amounts of money. It's certainly making my decision feel time sensitive. Either order something safe and soon or wait to see what the future holds for hollow motors.

[houseofjob]

2 hours ago, Gilleree said:

I am looking to enter the world of EUCs. I personally don’t want to get a beater wheel. I want to make a single purchase with a good wheel that I can grow into and rely on (budget up to 2000€). The two wheels I had my eye on are the InMotion V11 and the Gotway RS19 HT. 

Well, I’d say your answer is in your words right there 

Even traditional axled EUCs will experience rusting and need change (I’m talking heavy usage in dirt, debris and wet, over a few thousands of km), and those designs better shield the small bearing opening under the pedal arm, so just imagine these hollow bore motors we’re seeing that rust after just a few rides, where the bearing opening is much more surface area and not shielded at all. For reference, I’ve ridden everyday, normal 4 seasons city riding here in NYC over the past 6-ish years and have yet experience true bearing rusting, both my wheels and those of fellow rider friends.

Honestly, before the influx of all these hollow bore motors, there were mass MSP new production issues as well (albeit they seemed to be largely US eWheels, tho perhaps that’s also because there is more US discussion on English speaking socials), so personally, I would be a bit wary of the MSP as well.

[Tryptych]

It is a tough question at this time.

I have a V11 batch #2 with bearings that got screwed within 20 min of riding in the rain.

I am now buying a used MSP as a backup wheel while I wait for my V11 to be fixed under warranty. When the V11 is back in action I will probably only use the MSP when it is wet outside.

I hope they sort out the hollow motor issues ASAP but I'm not very optimistic and I'd  recommend you avoid them for at least another 6 months until we truly know the failure rates.

[DanielG]

Gillere  just know This is exactly where I am too. I have a v10 and tired of hearing the beeps. I love the looks and specs of the gotway rs high speed seems perfect upgrade but all this bearing talk.... honestly it would probably be fine for me since I’m never in rain and don’t go off road.
But then you have the ms super pro that has similar specs and no hollow motor or bearings to worry about right?  What’s to worry about, besides it’s discontinued? 
 

 

[Scottie888]

1 minute ago, DanielG said:

Gillere  just know This is exactly where I am too. I have a v10 and tired of hearing the beeps. I love the looks and specs of the gotway rs high speed seems perfect upgrade but all this bearing talk.... honestly it would probably be fine for me since I’m never in rain and don’t go off road.
But then you have the ms super pro that has similar specs and no hollow motor or bearings to worry about right?  What’s to worry about, besides it’s discontinued? 
 

 

Far's I've heard (albeit thru the grapevine), bearing issues on the BG RS has been resolved. However if it were me, I'd like to have it verified by a reputable source who's personally looked (pun intended) into it before plunking my dosh.

Far's I know, there's nothing much wrong with the MSP although the speed version has needed a mobo updated. 

[DanielG]

32 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

Far's I've heard (albeit thru the grapevine), bearing issues on the BG RS has been resolved. However if it were me, I'd like to have it verified by a reputable source who's personally looked (pun intended) into it before plunking my dosh.

Far's I know, there's nothing much wrong with the MSP although the speed version has needed a mobo updated. 

Appreciate the reply. I want to give ewheels a try and I notice they only offer the rs , If they still offer it must be good.  

[Scottie888]

36 minutes ago, DanielG said:

Appreciate the reply. I want to give ewheels a try and I notice they only offer the rs , If they still offer it must be good.  

Why not shoot them an email to confirm your concerns? You can not only verify the fix but also get the full scoop on warranty if the bearings do start to cause concerns. If the reply's satisfactory (& I've no doubt it would be), you can have some peace of mind when placing the order. Personally, I like the form factor of the RS > MSP + I hear the new motor is smooth & powerfully linear. 

You gettin the speed or torque version?

[mike_bike_kite]

I know you've picked 3 wheels but don't you think it would be better to state your requirements first and let the forum suggest a few wheels to you? It's possible that they might fix the bearings issues with these new wheels but you have to understand you're taking a risk. Warranties are all well and good if the supplier is local but, if they're not, then you'll have to post a 30Kg wheel for repair and then wait for the repair or work out how to do the job yourself.

What do you want the wheel for? Do you want speed? long range touring? Manoeuvrability? On road/off road? Do you ever need to carry the wheel up stairs? What weight are you? Are you mechanically minded?  

[DanielG]

10 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

Why not shoot them an email to confirm your concerns? You can not only verify the fix but also get the full scoop on warranty if the bearings do start to cause concerns. If the reply's satisfactory (& I've no doubt it would be), you can have some peace of mind when placing the order. Personally, I like the form factor of the RS > MSP + I hear the new motor is smooth & powerfully linear. 

You gettin the speed or torque version?

Yeah I can definitely email them and see what the update is on it. I also figure they’ve had a lot of those already. 
I was thinking speed but not sure. I’m on a v10 right now so either version will be heck of an upgrade. Im always on pavement not much hills. 

[EUChristian]

21 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

Far's I've heard (albeit thru the grapevine), bearing issues on the BG RS has been resolved. However if it were me, I'd like to have it verified by a reputable source who's personally looked (pun intended) into it before plunking my dosh.

Far's I know, there's nothing much wrong with the MSP although the speed version has needed a mobo updated. 

Nothing has been confirmed as resolved although for sure we have been told as much. 

On 12/22/2020 at 11:18 AM, Gilleree said:

I am looking to enter the world of EUCs. I personally don’t want to get a beater wheel. I want to make a single purchase with a good wheel that I can grow into and rely on (budget up to 2000€). The two wheels I had my eye on are the InMotion V11 and the Gotway RS19 HT. 

I have since discovered the problems with the bearings due to the hollow motor and now I am a bit worried getting either of them. I want to ride in Belgium which is a very rainy country. Even if I don’t ride directly in the rain, there are often times the road will still be wet. It seems that neither of these wheels have a good track record with their bearings so I do not know how to proceed. 

Would you folks recommend getting one of the two and relying on a 1/2 year warranty to keep me going with spares etc or should I try to get my hands on the Gotway MSP HT and do my own waterproofing?

Word of advice. Hold off until March and see where the mess stands then. 

[Scottie888]

1 hour ago, EUChristian said:

Nothing has been confirmed as resolved although for sure we have been told as much. 

Word of advice. Hold off until March and see where the mess stands then. 

Why am I not surprised? Like I mentioned, I read somewhere that the hollow motor bearings has been resolved but I would certainly want confirmation by valid sources (which Ewheels.com is) if it were my money. From my 1st batch S18 experience, I would certainly agree to wait as long as possible for the bugs to be worked out on all newly released products esp EUCs &other such niche items.

[xiiijojjo]

Bearing failures are extremely over-discussed relative to the amount of reports is my 2 cents. 

If you are afraid of opening up an euc i can't recommend getting one as it's literally the first thing recommended to do so you can do your own quality control which does not exist in this industry. I have owned and opened 3 wheels and all of them had quality control issues needing to be taken care of before my initial ride. Also you barely have to be mechanically minded to repair an euc unless we're talking about something like building your own battery packs. 

A new bearing for the RS is 80-160$ and the replacement takes 10 minutes if  the old one even fails, get a few supplies and another 10 minutes to waterproof it and boom you now have an RS without any of the reported issues. Ya welcome. 

[Scottie888]

4 minutes ago, xiiijojjo said:

Bearing failures are extremely over-discussed relative to the amount of reports is my 2 cents. 

If you are afraid of opening up an euc i can't recommend getting one as it's literally the first thing recommended to do so you can do your own quality control which does not exist in this industry. I have owned and opened 3 wheels and all of them had quality control issues needing to be taken care of before my initial ride. Also you barely have to be mechanically minded to repair an euc unless we're talking about something like building your own battery packs. 

A new bearing for the RS is 80-160$ and the replacement takes 10 minutes if  the old one even fails, get a few supplies and another 10 minutes to waterproof it and boom you now have an RS without any of the reported issues. Ya welcome. 

Yes yes I know I too can build my own house, fix my own car, till my own land & grow my own crops...yadi yadi yada. However is it too much to expect something bought new as a completed product to work at least for the 1st few months without getting our hands dirty? Afterall, we paid hard earned money for it. Much as it can be fun for some, most of us didn't buy parts separately to diy it ourselves.

It maybe amusing but I'd think no one will accept such a proposition if it was a brand new phone, microwave, fridge, auto...you name it. Sometimes I think we EUC'ers must be gluttons for punishment😳

[xiiijojjo]

@Scottie888 Oh i am by no means satisfied with the state of the euc world in terms of the conduct companies are getting away with but unfortunately things are as they are as a result of people voting with their wallets. People are hungering for faster, better wheels with new technologies and leap at the chance to throw money at a company offering this. Also many products have been rushed to market lately to be competitive and to acquire market share.

I only got the RS batch 1 because i have as much experience in opening and repairing unicycles as i do, knowing that it might be riddled with issues being a first batch wheel. Luckily for me it's been flawless so far other than motor cables being placed irresponsibly which i caught early by opening the wheel and doing my own QC.

Whenever a company (maybe iron korea?) makes a wheel that addresses many of the issues this forum has been vocal about for years for instance waterproofing, actual QC, quality parts/materials people will flock to that wheel/company and we will start seeing more of that. Until then we have to opt for the lesser evil i guess.

Also unless you are a handyman and a risktaker don't get new wheels. wait for them to become ancient (6 months old) and they should work somewhat according to what you were advertised half a year ago. 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by xiiijojjo

[.....]

16 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

Yes yes I know I too can build my own house, fix my own car, till my own land & grow my own crops...yadi yadi yada. However is it too much to expect something bought new as a completed product to work at least for the 1st few months without getting our hands dirty? Afterall, we paid hard earned money for it. Much as it can be fun for some, most of us didn't buy parts separately to diy it ourselves.

It maybe amusing but I'd think no one will accept such a proposition if it was a brand new phone, microwave, fridge, auto...you name it. Sometimes I think we EUC'ers must be gluttons for punishment😳

Expect it all you want. Hell, even hope for it. But you've been around longer than I have, you MUST know the score by now. Normal rules don't apply with the euc. A TON of burden is placed on us as new adopters. I like to think I got lucky on one new release and burned on another. Everyone told me and warned me, but i still had this wierd thought that eventually an euc company would release a 2-3k$ wheel and pay attention to build and quality. DUrr.... they didnt. I'm an idiot for having hope and a fool for not believgin everyone who said to wait. Still, gambling is fun aint it?

I am totally with you and think the bar is awful low for euc releases, and feel very badly for my vendor who has to stand behind some of this nonsense. Still, its a niche product and options are a little limited. I too expect more and bitch and moan when it doesnt happen. Without bitching, I think that progress moves even more slowly. Good news tho... there are a few gems of wheels out there. Nothing on the cutting edge of todays specs, but beating todays wheels in reliability by miles. So at least NOW we have a choice or two. I shudder to think how this all went down 5+yrs ago, when NONE of the wheels out were reliable for shit.

[EUChristian]

5 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Expect it all you want. Hell, even hope for it. But you've been around longer than I have, you MUST know the score by now. Normal rules don't apply with the euc. A TON of burden is placed on us as new adopters. I like to think I got lucky on one new release and burned on another. Everyone told me and warned me, but i still had this wierd thought that eventually an euc company would release a 2-3k$ wheel and pay attention to build and quality. DUrr.... they didnt. I'm an idiot for having hope and a fool for not believgin everyone who said to wait. Still, gambling is fun aint it?

I am totally with you and think the bar is awful low for euc releases, and feel very badly for my vendor who has to stand behind some of this nonsense. Still, its a niche product and options are a little limited. I too expect more and bitch and moan when it doesnt happen. Without bitching, I think that progress moves even more slowly. Good news tho... there are a few gems of wheels out there. Nothing on the cutting edge of todays specs, but beating todays wheels in reliability by miles. So at least NOW we have a choice or two. I shudder to think how this all went down 5+yrs ago, when NONE of the wheels out were reliable for shit.

This man speaks truth. 

[EUChristian]

I personally think we could alter the current affairs but I was laughed at the most knowledgeable people on earth who stated I just didn't know what I was talking about. 

They are part of the problem. There is a name for people telling you to just accept a problem because it's not really a problem and can't be changed - we call that the government. 

[Scottie888]

9 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Expect it all you want. Hell, even hope for it. But you've been around longer than I have, you MUST know the score by now.

Incredible as it might seem, I only got into this wheel game mid spring '20. I was rockin' a Xiaomi escoot early spring til I got bored with its 35kph topend. Was just about to order somethin' faster with suspension & offroad tires til I saw this funny lookin' monowheel UFO on YT. Fast forward some months later & here I am with a "collection" of 3 (soon to be 4 with the addition of a MCM5 aka wintersled).

In truth, I'm not ashamed to admit I likely barely a mid skilled rider still working on riding backwards & awaiting the balls to hit the magic 30mph🥴. Was/is always a gas it up & ride kinda guy (like most normal folks I guess) & though I knew this is niche made-in-china product, I didn't expect to sign up for so much diy'ing on something BNIB.

I guess I can gitout of this hobby (not bloody likey with all this lockdown crap😠) or accept the score, as you says. I know working on an EUC isn't exactly brain surgery but I was indeed, hoping I didn't have to do any operating atleast til after the 1st tire change. FWIW my $400 Xiaomi M365pro worked flawlessly from day 1 & still works just as well to this day so I know not all china stuff are junk. Well the performance is junk but atleast the QC isn't, IMO ofcos.

TBH I don't see a solution so long as there are suckers like us out there that keeps plunking down bags of coin even when it hurts. Like I said...gluttons for punishment cos it hurts so good😬

[Patrick Robert]

On 12/22/2020 at 11:18 AM, Gilleree said:

I have since discovered the problems with the bearings due to the hollow motor and now I am a bit worried getting either of them. I want to ride in Belgium which is a very rainy country.

Been there. Montréal is not as rainy as northern Europe, but we do get rain (intensely so at times). And snow. And freezing rain (1998!). And slush. And dust. I had the same painful deliberation only recently. I've also been really concerned about hollow motors and their apparent weeknesses and vulnerabilities. I understand the rational behind making the axle and the pedal hangers sturdier (although it seems the 16X is very strong in that regard *without* a hollow motor, so there are other engineering solutions).

The new wheels from 2020 were all pretty enticing, I almost went for the V11 but ultimately the Sherman got my vote. What got me was 1) the range and 2) the potential top speed. I was delighted to discover its comfort, balance, overall ride quality and attention to a bunch of little details. But even then, I realize now I fell victim to over-excitement by the new shiny thing.

I usually never buy the 1st version of anything. These wheels, from S18 to V11 and the newer Gotway/Begode models, and even including the Sherman, all have teething problems. Personally I just sent the Sherman back to the shop last week: "E HALL" problem on the display, in three instances with cutoffs. Seems like a hall sensor problem, not sure if it's a bad fluke or if there's a systemic weakness. And of course, there was a thread in this forum regarding a potential rim problem (too small for the tire), with the tire unseating itself in one instance. Very scary, and confidence is everything on these things.

I started with a V10F, because some of its characteristics was that it was well-insulated against rain and dust at the factory. Just changed the tire recently, and after 1500 km there was indeed very little dust inside the shell (all on the bottom), much less than would typically gather *on* the shell after a single ride in dry weather. Nice and time-tested model as well, reliable. But sadly, a bit too slow for my taste after only a short time.

Replaced it with a *Gotway Nikola 100v* (the 1800Wh model with 21700s). Like the V10F, it's got a round shell that has a reputation for being pretty well insulated and crash-resistant (compared to the MSuper family's). But the difference is the range and the speed. It's a great midrange and backup wheel for the Sherman. Performance-wise, it's not very much behind the current Begode models (measured a no-load speed of 90 km/h compared to the Sherman's 106!!), and it's far from being the first iteration. Marty had a problem with his 84v where the mosfets burned; Gotway updated the mosfets to handle more juice. My model has a bigger voltage display, a much more tolerable startup sound, upgraded mosfets. It feels reliable, and has great features. It's pretty close to a Sherman-lite in my mind.

I would have loved to try a suspension wheel, but I'll wait until they discover and iron out the quirks.
If we montrealers like to complain about one thing while eating poutine, it's our sh*tty streets. New potholes every spring. Cracks all over the place, and that includes bike paths. Suspension was almost a safety issue for me. These were scary on my V10F, but on the Sherman or the Nikola? It's like skiing on a hill with bumps, I slow down to 32 km/h and just carve around them, so much fun!

Edited January 11, 2021 by Patrick Robert

[Jonny727272]

hey @Gilleree did you ever make a decision? I was looking at the new wheels and having the same issue deciding. I love the look of the S18, but the small battery is a no go. And I'm not confident about air suspension yet when it comes to long term ownership. Still a new and unproven tech with more places for it to fail. The hollow motors are having troubles and Gotway is catching fire here and there. All these issues are making me look to older wheels and I think I've settled on getting a KS16X. If I can get a lightly used one for around $1300 I'll be happy. A new one for $2000 would hurt, but it still has solid specs and can accomplish everything I need it to.