Wheels with 2 chargers

[Adrianwoo]

Do You know which wheels have possibility to charge with 2 chargers?  What amparage per charger can be used for these wheels ? 

[Tawpie]

KS16X will. Don’t know what the limits are or if the chargers can have different current capabilities.

[Rawnei]

V11 has two charger ports but you shouldn't exceed 5A according to Inmotion so you can use two stock 2.5A chargers for a total of 5A, Gotway RS also has two charge ports, don't know the max charge.

[Seba]

7 hours ago, Adrianwoo said:

Do You know which wheels have possibility to charge with 2 chargers?  What amparage per charger can be used for these wheels ? 

King Song KS-18L/XL also has two charging ports. Wheels with older mainboard are confirmed to work reliably with currents up to 9 Amps (no more than 5 Amps per port). Newer mainboards will beep when the charging current is above 5 - 6 Amps, just like KS-16X.

[Dreygun]

16x is two 1.5 chargers. I think the fast charger is 4

Edited December 14, 2020 by Dreygun
Spelling

[Patrick Robert]

The Sherman also has two charge ports, and accepts two standard 5A chargers for a total of 10A charging. Full charging with the twin chargers takes about 4 hours, not bad for a 3200 Wh battery!

However, apparantly using two chargers on a regular basis stresses out the batteries a bit, and prevents the proper balancing of the charge throughout all packs. Although I have two chargers for mine, I've been starting to use only one to help prolong the life of the batteries, at least every other charge. Unless I plan on doing two really long rides in a day (or if I need to charge on the road for some reason).

[Chriull]

12 minutes ago, Patrick Robert said:

The Sherman also has two charge ports, and accepts two standard 5A chargers for a total of 10A charging.

I'm not really sure, but afair the manufacturer recommended maximum is 8A?

12 minutes ago, Patrick Robert said:

However, apparantly using two chargers on a regular basis stresses out the batteries a bit,

No. Not at all! The batteries themselves could take more. It's the parts like  connectors, wiring, mosfets and PCB tracks beeing the weak spots.

12 minutes ago, Patrick Robert said:

and prevents the proper balancing of the charge throughout all packs.

Balancing happens at the second part of the charging process - the constant voltage stage. There the max amperage of the charger(s) is of (about) no influence.

[Patrick Robert]

According to eWheels, the maximum is 8A.
My LeaperKim User Manual actually says this: "Charge port - Dual charge ports, support 10A max." (page 4)

I think I gleaned somewhere in these forums that higher amperage implied higher stress on all the electric/electronic components, and thus could shorten the life of this wonderful beast. I have no idea myself about that, but I'm interested in learning more. Likewise about balancing. I learned about that a few days ago, again by browsing this site. I'm just concerned about avoiding doing anything that might age any of the Sherman's systems prematurely.

What I've noticed since going back to using a single charger (for the last couple of days anyways), is that the charge seems to hold better when I turn it on. I mean, when double-charging it would start at 99.5v or something, even though it charges up to 100.4v. When I single-charge, it starts up consistently at 100.2v. Looks like it's "balancing" better (although I have no way of measuring that). Again I'd love to know more about this, if there's no penalty for double-charging I'm all for it!!!

[Chriull]

5 hours ago, Patrick Robert said:

According to eWheels, the maximum is 8A.
My LeaperKim User Manual actually says this: "Charge port - Dual charge ports, support 10A max." (page 4)

Yes. Afair there was a discussion once this 10A to 8A "reduction" came. It does not sound like much, but the dissipated power at the single components (connectors, wires, mosfets,.. ) grow by the square of the current. So from 8A to 10A the increase is 56%!

5 hours ago, Patrick Robert said:

I'm just concerned about avoiding doing anything that might age any of the Sherman's systems prematurely.

Afaik aging of components by the charging current (beside the cells) is of no real concern - either the components take the current or they overheat. One should do some visual inspection of the motherboard, connectors and wires if the veteran really stands the 10A. Imho. The one interesting corner of the motherboard is easily identified were the wires come from the charge plug and go to the batteries. Inbetween are 4 mosfets.

The cells, as already written take these currents easily - they just need to be kept nicely balanced, which is not related to charge current.

What they do not like is getting overdischarged (below 2.5V per cell), trickle charging or be kept at high temperatures with full charge. Charging while the cells are frozen kills them, too.

5 hours ago, Patrick Robert said:

What I've noticed since going back to using a single charger (for the last couple of days anyways), is that the charge seems to hold better when I turn it on. I mean, when double-charging it would start at 99.5v or something, even though it charges up to 100.4v. When I single-charge, it starts up consistently at 100.2v. Looks like it's "balancing" better (although I have no way of measuring that).

The final voltage after charging depends on the higher max voltage of the two chargers. So if you use the other charger alone you should get 100.4V, too.

Li ion cell have some "quite immedeate voltage drop" after charging - voltage settles within some minutes to 1-2 hours.

Then there should be another "drop" within 24 hours. Some ?low percentage?, afair.

So, depending upon which charger you used and at which time after charging you looked you'll see different numbers.

And since 0.2V difference at ~100V are just 0.2% these number could already be influenced by temperature, too.

Also there is some small difference in balancing with different charging currents - the higher the charging current the earlier the constant voltage stage of charging is reached. As (by the simple equivalent diagram) at the internal resistance a voltage drop occurs the 4.2V are reached earlier at higher currents - the "internal cell voltage" determining the real state of charge is the lower in this moment the higher the current is.

Additional the state of charge is determined down to which charging current one lets this second charge stage last. The green led turns on at the charger at some internally adjsted current threshold. Do not expect these threshold to be somehow overly accurate idententical for the chargers.

The veteran ?24s10p? battery configuration should have about 35/10mOhm per parallel cell group.

So with this ~3.5mOhm internal resistance the 4.2V are reached at 5A with 4.18V and with 10A at 4.14V "internal cell voltage". Beside this there ?could/should/are? different other real world influences that emphasize this effect?

5 hours ago, Patrick Robert said:

Again I'd love to know more about this, if there's no penalty for double-charging I'm all for it!!!

I tried to collect many details in 

and 

 

[null]

7 hours ago, Chriull said:

Yes. Afair there was a discussion once this 10A to 8A "reduction" came. It does not sound like much, but the dissipated power at the single components (connectors, wires, mosfets,.. ) grow by the square of the current. So from 8A to 10A the increase is 56%!

The manufacturer states 10A, AFAIK the 8A limitation is speculations derived from hypothetical 4 pin use.

I have searched the question a bit and there was never an official statement about 8A limiting. A review / disassembly video reinforced the impression that the Sherman could not take 10A by wrongfully taking the (thin) battery signal cable for a charging cable. In my experience 10A charging doesn't build up heat around ports nor housing.

Edited December 15, 2020 by null

[mhpr262]

I dont have two chargers, but I have recently bought a 5A charger for my Inmotion V10F, to use for topping up the charge on a longer tour (I am planning to do do some next spring or summer). I had to build an adapter for it because it came with the wrong plug ( a GX16-3 instead of the Inmotion GX12-3) but it seems to work flawlessly. The factory charger has only 1.5A and wouldnt even have been worth taking along on a tour.

[Adrianwoo]

Thx guys for all Your replys as I thought it would be faster charging if there are 2 plugs/nest, but I also get opinion that I should rather look how big is battery instead how many plugs/nest is in wheel. 

If I would like to charge with 8A at least then only Kingsong 18L, Kingsong 18XL (old versions which year?) or VeteranSherman ?
Any gotway with one plug/nest that can be loaded with 8A ? 

 

 

[null]

All those should take 8A (spread over two ports) though for the 18L it is a bit on the upper limit (0.6C) (related discussion)
the Gotways someone else has to confirm but the single port of the Monster takes 8A so possibly.

Edited December 16, 2020 by null

[Adrianwoo]

I get information that Monster Pro, Msuper RS has 2 plugs.