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Your wheel catches FIRE while charging - what do you do?


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I was thinking about building a 3 sided box/stand using cement backerboard used for building showers. The backerboard is pretty fire resistant. You could also line the box with fire resistant blankets. I'd build something like this guy did for his euc, but with 3 sides.

 

 

 

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My plan is to get the wheel outside at all costs. If its too damn hot to approach, I'll use a broom. If its too hot for that and I cant breathe, I'll still try and bathe the room in water. Not to put

The "violent firework" thermal runaway seems to be shorter than I initially thought (10-15 seconds if burning monster video is a ref?) So while the worse going on, hold my breath, grab the fire e

The fumes are toxic, I agree with that, but I disagree about the rest. The only things that works for Li-ion fires is good old water. CO2, poweder, etc, makes absolutely no sense for Li-ion fires, bec

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I had an idea back in summer to build a multiple wheel storage solution out of long 2X4s and steel bracing. My initial design failed and none of my expected wheels arrived so it got thrown on the scrap pile. One thing about the design that I want to revisit is having the stand on casters with a push/pull handle (like the handle of a Radio Flyer Wagon). I do not charge my wheels out of site so if a fire happens I should know immediately, hopefully before flames erupt. The idea with the casters is to be able to remove the wheel from the garage to front lawn without burning myself, my vehicles or my house down. 

Something like this with my homemade stand on casters or bolted onto a furniture dolly. 

https://www.harborfreight.com/swivel-handle-for-wooden-dolly-94354.html

 

Edited by gon2fast
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@gon2fast Your link doesn't work.

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Access Denied

You don't have permission to access "http://www.harborfreight.com/swivel-handle-for-wooden-dolly-94354.html" on this server.

 

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An update to my original post:

I bought a large (2m x 2m) fire blanket that I now keep beside my wheels while charging now. I am hoping the fire blanket allows me to wrap the wheel and make it easier to drag outside. I also have bought a mini fire extinguisher, which I don't expect to do much for a battery fire.

fire-blanket.jpg.74bccfc8c546df482e37afc597b9b241.jpg   mini-fire-fighter.jpg.365cea8f269b933adef16a4a828e70ed.jpg

 

 

Lastly, I saw this posted in one of our group chats, it's a Hoverboard Fire Resistant Safe Charging Bag :

photo_2021-01-13_15-57-23.jpg.e24db01d1ee53528f778a8be9a9a38a6.jpg

This is a great idea!!!  I will probably make a seperate post regarding this - someone in the community should start producing them EUC-sized, I bet they would sell like hotcakes.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Tryptych
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Welp, we will see if I burn my house down since I have an RS19 inbound. The latest thread on the RS19 starting on fire during shipping has me concerned. I am used to the even more fragile LiPO batteries used in RC planes. Even with my KS18 I am careful not charge it near anything flammable. I will most likely not charge the RS19 while I'm sleeping after reading the latest thread. I noticed Kuji used a metal box with ventilation fans. at least he did in the Sherman review. Might not be a bad idea. I do have an old file cabinet I can hollow out.

Edited by Zach N
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On 12/3/2020 at 2:16 AM, ShanesPlanet said:

My plan is to get the wheel outside at all costs. If its too damn hot to approach, I'll use a broom. If its too hot for that and I cant breathe, I'll still try and bathe the room in water. Not to put the wheel out, but to prevent my walls and ceiling from burining.. Being near it when it catches, I would hope i can react quickly. Being electrocuted is much less ever a worry of mine, than an explosion or fire. If i kill the power to the house, my well stops. If i was on city water pumps, i'd kill the power and flood the room. I would also empty ALL my fire extinguishers as nearby flammables became in danger.  However, I charge mine next to motor vehicles and a paint closet and undermining my chances at ANYTHING helping much. If it goes badly, Im just going on vacation for a few days....

yes... when my wheel comes into the garage maybe loop line around the wheel so if the poop hits the fan so to speak, I can quickly pull it out with the line without having to get close.  I have garden hoses right outside garage.  Thinking of adding extra fire alarm right above my charge station.  Simple ABC extinguisher close by as well.

 

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On 12/11/2020 at 4:01 PM, sffish said:

I was thinking about building a 3 sided box/stand using cement backerboard used for building showers. The backerboard is pretty fire resistant. You could also line the box with fire resistant blankets. I'd build something like this guy did for his euc, but with 3 sides.

 

I was thinking something similar, maybe try and make some of that fancy Starlite putty folks are talking about being able to withstand multiple thousand degree temps and laugh.  Line the inside of the box. 

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On 1/15/2021 at 5:30 PM, Rich Sam said:

I was thinking something similar, maybe try and make some of that fancy Starlite putty folks are talking about being able to withstand multiple thousand degree temps and laugh.  Line the inside of the box.

Line it up with bread. :D

Starlite is overrated. The li-ion "explosion" takes like 10s, a $5 fireproof blanket should be enough to protect furniture.

Edited by atdlzpae
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1 hour ago, atdlzpae said:

Line it up with bread. :D

Starlite is overrated. The li-ion "explosion" takes like 10s, a $5 fireproof blanket should be enough to protect furniture.

Starlite has many advantages over bread.  Biggest difference is you can bake it into tiles or sheets and resists mold and should last a long time.  Bread on the other hand will well, decompose and get nasty.

Li-ion fires can be VERY VERY nasty, and much bigger than a 10 second affair.  maybe a single cell lasts 10 seconds but often times the single cell fire creates a chain reaction where multiple cells go off one after another.   Check out Wrong Way vid of two Begode fires.

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If I had some fire proof material, how would I test it to see if it could withstand a Lithium fire/explosion? could I do it moderately inexpensively? Stapling sliced bread to the inside of a large bag might fix the fire problem but we'd get a mouse infestation instead. That and the current plague would make you feel like you're living in the old testament.

Edited by mike_bike_kite
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9 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

If I had some fire proof material, how would I test it to see if it could withstand a Lithium fire/explosion? could I do it moderately inexpensively?

If it was me, and I had a begode wheel I would probably use cheap dry wall to create a box as someone suggested in this thread.   Its cheap and will withstand quite a bit before failure.  You can also double up the drywall in layers to increase protection more.

I have personally decided because I have a v11 chances are I'm pretty safe.  right now the problems appear to be isoalated to Begode.

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A few times people have tried pulling a burning mattress out of a bedroom. Lives can be lost. It could flare up by the egress and others could get trapped.

 

1. Everyone Evacuate call 911

2. Remove flammables from the vicinity

3. Move EUC to a safer or out door area.

4. Ventilate if possible. 

5 Monitor the house/apartment for flames

6 Let First responders do their job.

 

#1 is not to be ignored while you attempt to pull the EUC out. Absolute Priority.

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Here's my list, with regards to minimizing the risk of fire:

  • Always keep the wheel inside, never in a shed or garage where humidity and the cold are the enemy;
  • Charge by the entrance so I can throw the unit outside quickly if required/possible (I'm at street level, lucky for me). Another benefit is that it sits there vertically on a mat to collect the rain/snow;
  • Fire extinguisher closeby;
  • Additional smoke alarm in the entrance;
  • After the ride, turn the wheel off and wait an hour before charging, especially if it's colder/hotter outside. That will let the battery chemistry reach room temperature gently;
  • Always charge under supervision (never ever again while I sleep or am away, duh!);
  • Monitor the temperature as it's charging through an app (even though it requires the wheel to be kept on while charging);
  • Be prepared to evacuate quickly through the back door at the first sign that things are getting out of control. Call 911;
  • When making crème brûlée, use the torch in another room than the entrance.
Edited by Patrick Robert
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Since my previous hobby has been using Lipo batteries for more than 17 years, here are few tips I can share on what we do to remediate the danger.  

  1. Only charge Lithium batteries on fire-proof surface.  Concrete or brick will work great
  2. Keep all combustable material at least 3 meters away
  3. Only charge outdoor or semi outdoor under an awning.  But make sure it is under a shad and away from rain. 
  4. Regular fire extinguisher doesn't do much to lithium fire, a bag of sand will work better on slowing the burn.  While fire extinguisher can help with burning material near the batteries, you shouldn't have any near by if you follow tip #2.  :) 
  5. Do not charge lithium batteries in seal container, (ie metal cabinet or safe), you are creating a bomb.  
  6. Do not charge in your car while driving.  I think this one is obvious but I know an incident where a battery burst into flam while the car was i motion...  Fun day.  
  7. Do not try to move the battery once the thermal run-away has begun.  Lithium batteries can also shoot out fire several feet away once the structure integrity is comprised.  

I can't say if the fume is toxic, but lithium battery has a distinct sweet and fruity smell.  The most common cause for lithium battery fire is incorrect charging voltage or current.  So, a battery sitting on the table is extremely unlikely to catch on fire on its own.  The second most common cause is the battery wires shorting out in the device.  Naturally, this can happen while the device is use.  

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There is a simpler way: Keep your EUC at least a few meters from furniture.

If your home is made of brick and you have no flammables 2m away, even if your EUC burns down, the fire won't spread.
I'd say that the worst thing one can do is to keep the wheel near bed, curtains or carpets. If you have no garage, keep it in the kitchen or in the toilet (tiles are fireproof).

3 hours ago, Rich Sam said:

Li-ion fires can be VERY VERY nasty, and much bigger than a 10 second affair.

Can you please provide an example? Every single video I've watched is literally 10s of "explosion" followed by a normal, plastic fire. If it takes longer, even better - less chance the furniture catches on fire.

I see this topic comes back every single week - some people think it's a nuclear explosion, others think you need to "always charge under supervision" (bedroom is the worst place for an EUC fire), some people think they should burn themselves by moving the wheel outside...

The solution is simple: Keep the flammables/furniture/curtains/carpets far away from the wheel. If it burns, order a new wheel.B)

Edited by atdlzpae
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I think alot of these solutions are simply not workable:

Keep/charge outside - how does that work when you have weeks of the high temperarure of 0c (or less) and snow/rain on/off constantly?
Keep it away from anything flamabale - many houses ar made of wood.  No way to keep it 3m from anything not-wood/fabric/carpets
Keep it near the door - so any kid/animal/guest can knock it over, step over or get it wet..?

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@/Dev/Null These are merely suggestions.  You don't need to follow any of them if you accept the risk of your house burning down.  Life is not about making the right choices.  It is about living with the consequences of your choices. 

 

 

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Lol... this post is getting a lot of views this week thanks to Gotway.

An update: since I created this post I now keep a large 2m x 2m fire blanket beside my wheels while I'm charging them. I charge them in my living room because that's usually where I am, and the balcony is about 10ft away.  If anything ever goes wrong the hope is that the fire blanket will allow me to cover the wheel giving me 5-10 seconds to toss it onto the balcony. I have a fire extinguisher as well but I don't expect that to be much help in a battery fire.

https://www.amazon.com/Aaaspark-Fiberglass-Emergency-Suppression-Retardant/dp/B082X4LLWZ 

image.png.7b6811c295d18841f9cea8f72665f615.png


ps: I saw someone mention this item in group chat and I really think it's a great idea, someone needs to invent fire resistant EUC-size charging bags like this:

 I would buy one.

 

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9 hours ago, Corn Flake said:

@/Dev/Null These are merely suggestions.  You don't need to follow any of them if you accept the risk of your house burning down.  Life is not about making the right choices.  It is about living with the consequences of your choices. 

 

 

It's not about accepting/not accepting the suggestions.  Many are competely unviable.  I think everyone implicitly accepts the danger of a wheel with large battery just by purchasing it, just as they accept their car may explode in their garage.  However, the suggestions would be more useful if they were more widely applicable.  

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10 hours ago, /Dev/Null said:

I think alot of these solutions are simply not workable:

Keep/charge outside - how does that work when you have weeks of the high temperarure of 0c (or less) and snow/rain on/off constantly?
Keep it away from anything flamabale - many houses ar made of wood.  No way to keep it 3m from anything not-wood/fabric/carpets
Keep it near the door - so any kid/animal/guest can knock it over, step over or get it wet..?

I live in a 3 floor town house. It rarely gets that cold down there. I throw an old coat over it to keep it warm.  I use a tarp to keep water off it. I live alone, and I would rather degrade the EUC rather than wake up with the house on fire. 

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2 minutes ago, GothamMike said:

I live in a 3 floor town house. It rarely gets that cold down there. I throw an old coat over it to keep it warm.  I use a tarp to keep water off it. I live alone, and I would rather degrade the EUC rather than wake up with the house on fire. 

We've had Decembers before where we'd have two weeks of -20 to -30c lows and i'm not even in Canada.  I can't think what that would do to a battery.

Edited by /Dev/Null
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Watch people installing wood-burning stoves in the cabins or homes, distance from the wall and floor is important. Many use corrugated steel between the stove and the wall, with an air gap in between. If you live in an apartment, perhaps a storage or bike locker would be safer. Invest in a sturdy bike lock that you can chain the EUC to if you store it in a common room. 

I like the fire blanket idea, it won't put out a Li-Ion fire, but prevent it from spreading.

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I once considered having my EUCs on the balcony, but was warned about fog and morning dew possibly corroding the battery.

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