Your wheel catches FIRE while charging - what do you do?

[Paul A]

Instead of submerging in water, maybe cover with a fire blanket.

 

Centro Zaragoza tests the Bridgehill Fire Blanket on an electric vehicle

159,039 views

Feb 14, 2020

 

 

 

[Rawnei]

Does the blanket come with 4 firemen? Sounds really expensive.

[Paul A]

https://www.amazon.com/Emergency-Retardant-Suppression-Fiberglass-Restaurant/dp/B08SBZMDF8/ref=sr_1_14?keywords=fire+blanket&qid=1651248747&sr=8-14

 

Fire Blanket For Home XXL- 79 x 79 Fire Blankets Emergency For People Fire Retardant Blanket Fire Shelter Large Suppression Fiberglass Kitchen Home Restaurant House Fire Proof Survival Safety Reusable

Price:

$64.99

*Seems to be 79 x 79 inches in size.  (2 x 2 metres)

[Paul A]

Fire blanket might the best storage solution.

Cheap, easy, effective.

No need for Firesak, outdoor cabinets, self exploding fire extinguisher balls, etc....

[Rawnei]

Already ordered a Firesak Large, Myewheel is taking pre-orders now for European customers.

[Asphalt]

Fire blankets, sacks, cabinets, extinguishers...none of those solutions address the fact that you're spewing toxic chemicals into the air.

At least with submersion, some of that toxic gas is contained within the fluid, but that toxic sludge probably ends up getting dumped into the water system as some point.

If you've submerged your wheel and know that the batteries have been compromised, then probably best solution is to put the batteries in a large metal garbage bin filled with water and let them burn out. Then take the whole bin to a hazardous materials handling facility.

 

[Paul A]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-drilling-abandoned-specialreport-idUSKBN23N1NL

June 16, 2020

Special Report: Millions of abandoned oil wells are leaking methane, a climate menace

SALYERSVILLE, Kentucky (Reuters) - (This June 16 story corrects comparison in paragraph eight of climate damage from methane leaks to that from U.S. oil consumption. The leaks cause climate damage roughly equivalent to typical U.S. oil consumption in one day, not two days.)

 

The incident, while extreme, reflects a growing global problem: More than a century of oil and gas drilling has left behind millions of abandoned wells, many of which are leaching pollutants into the air and water.

______________

 

https://www.nrdc.org/stories/millions-leaky-and-abandoned-oil-and-gas-wells-are-threatening-lives-and-climate

July 26, 2021

Millions of Leaky and Abandoned Oil and Gas Wells Are Threatening Lives and the Climate

........the call to cap the millions of orphaned and abandoned oil and gas wells that currently pockmark the country, from Alaska to New York to New Mexico.

Taken together, these wells are a major source of air and groundwater pollution, as they continue to leak toxic substances such as arsenic and methane even after they’re no longer operational.

[RagingGrandpa]

3 hours ago, Paul A said:

Fire blanket might the best storage solution.

It won't contain burning cells completely... leaving the possibility of flaming projectiles. Not great.  

On 6/23/2021 at 12:56 PM, GoGeorgeGo said:

Here is the testing we did with a welding fire blanket

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5ffyTtJeEI

(I think the special car-size firefighter blanket was an even sturdier material, and notice it's not in contact with the hottest part of a car battery fire...)

[Paul A]

Good video by GoGeorge of testing welding blanket drag bag.

The car fire blanket test video did seem a little tame.

Video compilation of some more violent Tesla fires.

 

[bondsy]

Interesting topic. Regarding the Firesac, it seems like a decent but not a perfect solution to the problem. Its looks like a very similar solution that many 3D printer manufactures came up with to protect from random 3D printer fires.

If anyone likes the firesac concept but doesn't want to pay their prices, you can always buy a 3D printer enclosure for about $50. I've never handled a firesac so perhaps its built with stronger materials (so your mileage may vary) but the concept does appear very similar. Yeah 3D printer enclosures have a plastic window, but to me it seems like you do not want to fully encase the fire anyways as it will build pressure just like in the demo video. I feel containing firework projectiles / redirecting the flames and leaving the one panel open / unzipped to avoid pressure buildup is a pretty good outcome for such a simple and cheap solution. 

Just one of many 3D printer enclosure examples, could be any brand they are all similar

Seems to me like a decent option, and pairing this with charging in a garage / balcony / near open window during good weather to avoid moisture sounds like a solid anti-fire plan for those worried about it.

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by bbonds_007

[mike_bike_kite]

There's quite a few differences between 3D printer fires and EUC fires. From what I understand, the printer needs to be turned on and printing and then a faulty heating element can cause the plastic of the printer to melt and eventually catch fire. With an EUC fire it might happen at any time, even when the EUC is switched off. In an EUC fire the batteries produce large amounts of hydrogen (remember the Hindenburg). They also produce oxygen so these fire are almost impossible to put out. They also produce a large amount of nasty chemicals which you don't want to breath in. Plastic fire burn at approx 500c (from a quick google) but lithium battery fires burn at around 2500c. EUC's also contain 100's of individual batteries that are very likely to shoot off like miniature rockets spreading fire in their wake. The only thing they have in common with 3D printer fires is shoddy Chinese manufacturing

 

[Funky]

Meh if fire starts - i will take broom, put it true euc handle and run like crazy, dragging it outside.  Will be fun.  

[duanew]

18 hours ago, Funky said:

Meh if fire starts - i will take broom, put it true euc handle and run like crazy, dragging it outside.  Will be fun.  

Hold your breath until outside also.

[Funky]

13 minutes ago, duanew said:

Hold your breath until outside also.

I will quickly get a plastic bag and rubber band it around my head. (Bigger bag - more air.)  Will work 3-5 mins  (If i need to go back into that room.. To fight fire, open window, or something.)

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Funky

[Aztek]

Here's a Li-ion batteries fire study, I stumbled upon. It seems interesting and containing useful information.

[RagingGrandpa]

2 hours ago, Aztek said:

Here's a Li-ion batteries fire study, I stumbled upon. It seems interesting and containing useful information.

TL;DR: 

Quote

The detection test results show that there are no universal precursors to a battery casualty that can be used for early warning detection for all types of batteries and systems. However, the results demonstrated that a smoke detector works well for detecting a casualty early into the event (i.e., after the first cell or group of cells have vented and/or caught fire).

The suppression system results show that water, or water-based agents, have good capabilities for managing the heat released during a battery casualty and have the potential to stop fire spread to adjacent batteries. The results demonstrate that cell-to-cell propagation within a large multicell pack can be stopped if the pack is rapidly submersed in water if the water can penetrate the battery pack. The final BSL design includes a sprinkler head installed inside each battery storage compartment. If battery packs (of the type studied) are colocated in adjacent storage areas, it is recommended they be protected from radiative and convective heat transfer.

 

[GothamMike]

1. evacuate everyone, call 911/Emergency services

2. get a pole with a hook or hoe, keep one nearby

3. If possible, drag it out of your domicile

4. Drag it away from flammable materials.

5. Use your best judgement, the fumes are toxic.

[Skuggan]

Regarding fire extinguishers for lithium-ion packed rides.

The only thing I’ve seen that seems to be able to extinguish li-ion fire is a product called F500 EA, a kind of encapsulator solution. 
 

It seems like its chemical reaction happens when mixed with water, so im guessing for private home usage it would need to be an extinguisher with 2different containers that mixes in the nozzle.

So my question is this, have anyone seen any product like this?

I got no room for a big metal box either because of you guessed it, no room.

Because if the worst happens I would absolutely love to be able to be able to do something if my euc self combusts.

 

[Cerbera]

17 minutes ago, Skuggan said:

do something if my euc self combusts

Have you got room for a circular metal garden bin you can invert over the top of it ?

That and a fire blanket and and clear easy route to outside and I reckon you're golden.

You don't wanna be putting fires out, chemically or otherwise, inside your house. Your only focus initially should be in covering it and getting it outside ASAP.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Cerbera

[Skuggan]

6 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

I reckon you're golden.

I guess that would be the step to take if that fire extinguisher agent isnt for private use yet.

didt think of such an easy step tbh.

if no one knows about the F500 EA I guess thats the step to take + 2 fire ladders. 

 

[Paul A]

Airwheel X6 and Kingsong S22.

Not sure an F500 EA extinguisher is going to help much.

Video of KS S20 fire, aka KS S22.

 

KING SONG S20 FIRE!

Hsiang

17.6K subscribers

Mar 28, 2022

 

 

[Cerbera]

36 minutes ago, Paul A said:

KING SONG S20 FIRE!

Let's not worry him unnecessarily ! The KS fire there happened after a horrible crash, which obviously started it !! I don't believe KS have a reputation for using low quality batteries, overamping the ones it has, OR spontaneous fires. Even Gotway / Begode's machines only have a couple of models that were a risk whilst off and parked.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The bin is easy and cheap, but is a long way from ideal, except perhaps if fires start while you are asleep. 

It might do a reasonable job of containing the spraying flame and sparks, but it can't contain the smoke or the gasses, and it obviously prevents you from seeing the state of the machine if you plan to get it outside. Taking the bin off once a fire has commenced is likely to be 'hazardous', or at least unhelpful.

There have been numerous other threads here that discuss all the options we have for dealing with EUC fires, so I won't go through them all again here, but they are worth checking out, as almost every option has been explored. However, if you don't have room for the sort of cabinet that can contain a fire and KEEP it contained until it burns out, and you can't construct a secure outside area in which you can leave it, then the best you can do is install a smoke alarm on the ceiling above it, put a large fire blanket and a thick pair of Winter gloves on the wall next to it, leave your keys to the outside door IN the lock when you go to bed, and hope you wake up fast enough to cover it and move it outside should it ever come to that !!

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Cerbera

[Skuggan]

7 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Not sure an F500 EA extinguisher is going to help much.

I dont really get why it wouldt. Must help a hell of a lot more than just to let it burn out totally.

 

[Skuggan]

4 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Let's not worry him unnecessarily !

Yeah I think everyone that has thought of getting or got an S22 have seen that video tbh. 😂😱

Ive been reading some topics on it but I have seen nothing about the F500 EA extinguisher that has piqued my interest. Thats the reason I made this post tbh.

[Paul A]

7 minutes ago, Skuggan said:

I dont really get why it wouldt. Must help a hell of a lot more than just to let it burn out totally.

 

If there is not enough room for a large metal box, then it is a small confined, indoor, enclosed space.

Most victims of house fires die from smoke inhalation.

The intense radiant heat will prevent you from getting near the fire.

Fire fighters have breathing apparatus, thick protective clothing shielding their entire body. 

As in the video, the fire fighter used a long metal pike to turn the EUC over to expose the burning underside

Lithium fires burn at incredible high temperatures.

Without proper equipment, training, experience.......might be best to extract EUC to outside ASAP and leave it to the professionals.

If unable to extract the EUC to the outside, then evacuate people.

Time is critical.