Cranium Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Just now, Cloud said: I started about 3- 4 months ago. I didnt think 1500 was too much...isnt , for example, ninebot supposed to last 18000 miles?) Only if you rotate the tire regularly and change the oil every 500 Km. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaleOsaurusRex Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 @Cloud You should still have a one year parts warranty if you got it direct from King Song before US distributors were more prevalent. If you like, you can have any replacement parts piggyback on one of our shipments to save on your shipping cost. No big deal; email to communicate about it if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuerte Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Great Will! I am excited to see your review of the 16" also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgen Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 6 hours ago, esaj said: Like I've mentioned multiple times in the past, any wheel can break down any time. All it takes is one bad electrical connection (either from the get-go or loosened over time by vibration, falls, thermal expansion / contraction as the temperature around changes) or one electrical component to fail (all though there are no mechanical moving parts, the components do "wear" especially under high temperature etc.) in a critical place, or mechanical fault either due to faulty unit or simple wear & tear... Not fun, but that's just how it is. I agree completely, this cannot be stressed enough, especially to newbie's that immediately want high speed. Nobody's suprised when the motherboard and other electronics in a laptop dies on them after it has take. too many beatings (shocks, vibration, repeated flexing, etc.). A Mil-spec EUC with some built-in redundancy, that would be great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 2 hours ago, KaleOsaurusRex said: @Cloud You should still have a one year parts warranty if you got it direct from King Song before US distributors were more prevalent. If you like, you can have any replacement parts piggyback on one of our shipments to save on your shipping cost. No big deal; email to communicate about it if you like. Thanks a lot Will, this is a very kind offer, i appreciate it a lot. I will talk to kingsong to decide what to do and let you know. Thank you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colestien Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 That's what will make this new sport solid. People like Will stepping up. It makes me feel like I'm no longer walking a tight rope without a net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 From my description Kingsong said that the Mos Tube is burnt and offered a new control board to me. I told them i believe there is also something damaged inside the motor. We will see what they say. I havent opened it up yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 11 minutes ago, Cloud said: From my description Kingsong said that the Mos Tube is burnt and offered a new control board to me. I told them i believe there is also something damaged inside the motor. We will see what they say. I havent opened it up yet. My ninebot died at 35 miles. It died using v 1.2.7 because my daughter played it at the hallway and idling it even though Ninebot is noted to withstand rapid idling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 2 minutes ago, SlowMo said: My ninebot died at 35 miles. It died using v 1.2.7 because my daughter played it at the hallway and idling it even though Ninebot is noted to withstand rapid idling. What do you mean by idling? Why is that hard for a euc to withstand? Do you mean like standing on a sloped surface? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 Ok i got it. Ive looked it up:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 @Cloud Sorry for late response, was travelling, out of contact... The first batch of King Song 800W Wheels (very limited of these numbers sold, maybe 25 globally) had control-boards that were susceptible to this failure. The good news is that your Wheel should be covered under warranty & if mechanically inclined, you can perform a board-transplant in about 30-45 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said: @Cloud Sorry for late response, was travelling, out of contact... The first batch of King Song 800W Wheels (very limited of these numbers sold, maybe 25 globally) had control-boards that were susceptible to this failure. The good news is that your Wheel should be covered under warranty & if mechanically inclined, you can perform a board-transplant in about 30-45 minutes. Thanks a lot Jason, i didnt know about the earlier control board issue. My wheel was in fact in the first batch of these wheels. I already took the wheel out and the control board, kingsong told they can provide a new board but i suspect there is also a problem with the motor which facilitated frying the board. I am planning to open up the motor tonight to see if anything looks damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 2 hours ago, Cloud said: I am planning to open up the motor tonight to see if anything looks damaged. When rotating the Wheel does it spin freely? The problem with a pooched first-gen board is it has the characteristics of something mechanical, but is in fact a MOSFET failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 23 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: When rotating the Wheel does it spin freely? The problem with a pooched first-gen board is it has the characteristics of something mechanical, but is in fact a MOSFET failure. Right now that ive taken the wheel out of the casing it is rotating normally. But when the wheel was connected to the board at the time it broke it wouldnt spin fully free. So you are saying its because it was still connected to a broken board? I believe that even when the wheel was off the wheel wouldnt spin normally. And now, disconnected from everything it does. when the wheel broke , at the time i turned it on there was a loud mechanical thud somewhere inside , which made me believe there was something wrong with the motor. The short thud repeated when i turned it on again, until the board fried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Cloud, My knowledge is with brushless motors in model aircraft but I've certainly seen similar things with them. If these are comparable, it is likely that if the MOSFET's driving one of the 3 phases failed they tend to fail short circuit I.e. perrmanently on, powering one phase and creating a strong magnetic attraction between its coils and the nearest magnets, these would move rapidly a small distance which could sound like a clunk after which the wheel would feel locked until power was removed. Clearance between the stators and magnets should be quite small so, had one come loose the odds are it would still be rubbing if the disconnected wheel is turned on its axle. If you do take the wheel apart look at the wiring as well as the magnets to check the wiring hasn't overheated (discolouring or bubbling on the insulation) and, as a result shorted some of the coils. Alternately an impedance meter could be used to check all 3 phases still have similar impedance as the resistance is likely to be too low to spot a short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 2 hours ago, Keith said: Cloud, My knowledge is with brushless motors in model aircraft but I've certainly seen similar things with them. If these are comparable, it is likely that if the MOSFET's driving one of the 3 phases failed they tend to fail short circuit I.e. perrmanently on, powering one phase and creating a strong magnetic attraction between its coils and the nearest magnets, these would move rapidly a small distance which could sound like a clunk after which the wheel would feel locked until power was removed. Clearance between the stators and magnets should be quite small so, had one come loose the odds are it would still be rubbing if the disconnected wheel is turned on its axle. If you do take the wheel apart look at the wiring as well as the magnets to check the wiring hasn't overheated (discolouring or bubbling on the insulation) and, as a result shorted some of the coils. Alternately an impedance meter could be used to check all 3 phases still have similar impedance as the resistance is likely to be too low to spot a short. This is great so there is hope that the motor is ok. What if I, to confirm, connect the battery to the motor directly? Is the mottor supposed to start spinng if the wheel is inclined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 30 minutes ago, Cloud said: This is great so there is hope that the motor is ok. What if I, to confirm, connect the battery to the motor directly? Is the mottor supposed to start spinng if the wheel is inclined? NO! Don't connect the battery to the motor directly, if the BMS short circuit protection doesn't trigger for some reason, you'll fry the motor & your battery & your face... 3-phase brushless motor needs a fairly precise control electronics, you can't drive it just like a brushed motor, which starts turning when you plug it into a power source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Whoo, no 51 minutes ago, Cloud said: This is great so there is hope that the motor is ok. What if I, to confirm, connect the battery to the motor directly? Is the mottor supposed to start spinng if the wheel is inclined? Whoa, no don't do that, the motor is not a d.c. motor. Brushless motors are 3-phase a.c motors so the controller works quite hard sending a carefully timed a.c. Voltage to each of the 3 sets of coils in turn ( The three thicker wires that connected to brass screws on the control board). A d.c. voltage across any two of those three wires will just create an electromagnet out of one set of coils ( and will take too much current if connected to the wheel's battery.) it works like this: a set of coils are energised and each attracts a magnet towards it, as the magnet passes over the coil the voltage is reversed to repel the magnet and then the next coil along is energised to attract it - and so on spinning the wheel which has a load of magnets attached all the way around it and a load of coils in groups of 3 on the stationary part. Hall effect transistors are used to detect exactly where the magnets currently are so that the controller "knows" when to energise each phase (either to spin the wheel in either direction or hold it stationary depending on what the gyro stabilisation circuitry is demanding ) these transistors are connected to the set of wires that go to the control board via a plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 Thank you Esaj and Keith! I suspected this may not have been a good idea I will try to open the wheel tonight and will report back on what i see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 Ive removed the screws on the circumference of the wheel but the 2 hexagonal screws holding the top piece of the foot pedal assembly down to the bottom piece wont give in. They are so tight that my allen key got stripped trying to twist their heads. So i got stuck. Maybe if i can get some machine oil i can put a few drops in to try and loosen them up. See pics.. .. Advice? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizardmech Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Did you pull the control board out? Interested to see if any components show signs of failure. Also could you take a photo of the kingsong wheel/motor from the front, I know they use a wider one than normal but I have never found enough pictures to identify who makes it or if it fits other models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 56 minutes ago, Cloud said: They are so tight that my allen key got stripped trying to twist their heads. Have you tried some WD-40 lubricant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 1 hour ago, Cloud said: They are so tight that my allen key got stripped trying to twist their heads. WD40 or other penetrating oil might help but if locktite was used, as it should have been on any metal to metal screw, then it will take heat to free it. A 50 Watt or greater soldering iron stuck down the hex head until you can feel the metal block starting to warm up ought to do it. Having said that my one concern about my KS is that I've not seen any evidence of locktite on the screws I've undone around the wheel perimeter after one came loose by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castShadow Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I think maybe wrong size allen key? You need one that fit perfect that it can't spin. There is metric and non-metric right? Will be fascinating to see the open motor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 6 hours ago, lizardmech said: Did you pull the control board out? Interested to see if any components show signs of failure. Also could you take a photo of the kingsong wheel/motor from the front, I know they use a wider one than normal but I have never found enough pictures to identify who makes it or if it fits other models. Yes i pulled everything out. The board shows no signs of damage, but it smells them:) still smells burnt, i am not aphome now but will post pictures later. Same for the motor pics 6 hours ago, SlowMo said: Have you tried some WD-40 lubricant? I am thinking of using something more liquid than wd40 to get inside the thread. Have to get it later today 6 hours ago, Keith said: WD40 or other penetrating oil might help but if locktite was used, as it should have been on any metal to metal screw, then it will take heat to free it. A 50 Watt or greater soldering iron stuck down the hex head until you can feel the metal block starting to warm up ought to do it. Having said that my one concern about my KS is that I've not seen any evidence of locktite on the screws I've undone around the wheel perimeter after one came loose by itself. I will try heat if the lubricant doesnt work. I didnt see any locktite but the screws were consistently tight across the board. Its terrible to hear the wheel came loose on you. Hope it didnt cause any accident or injuries 51 minutes ago, castShadow said: I think maybe wrong size allen key? You need one that fit perfect that it can't spin. There is metric and non-metric right? Will be fascinating to see the open motor! It was the right size key and i made sure its metric. These screws are tight as hell. I will take pics once i open that baby up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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