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S18 Full Strip Down, Suspension Overhaul, Tire Upgrade, Mods and Rebuild - My Personal Comprehensive Account


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fbhb, in anticipation that something like this might occur, and because I felt your post was so valuable, I downloaded the complete http file, including all the photos. 

I can compress and send to you. It should make a rebuild of information much easier.

I'm a little wary about posting my full email address here in the open, but if you can think of a way we can exchange emails, I'd be happy to send.

~ Yellowjacket

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@Yellowjacket and @Kayobot All of the images have now been restored to the original post.

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So my assembly day did not go as planned. The wife wanted to go ice-skating so I only got a couple of hours of work done.

have i ever mentioned how much I hate changing tires? It was a bitch getting the H-666 mounted.. but it is done now. I still need to work the tire a bit as it is not fully centered on the rim... but good enough for now. Fits nicely inside the fender. Pics to follow.

The suspension movement is smooth as butter now. I did however find the source of the ”clunking” noise that i have experienced when the suspension bottoms out. It is the lower bolt on the pivot arm that hits the fender. I have a ptfe washer under the bolt there that is probably not needed, so i will remove that one and shave the bolt down so it can clear the fender. Not a big deal but one more annoying feature eliminated.

i put about 1k km on the wheel this season.. and man is it dirty inside. I probably will tear it down for a cleanup more often now that i know how to do it. I have to give huge props to Locksong for the tutorial videos. They are spot on.

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29 minutes ago, FinRider said:

So my assembly day did not go as planned. The wife wanted to go ice-skating so I only got a couple of hours of work done.

What a good hubby! Looking forward to seeing all of your progress!:cheers:

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I am sorry for hijacking the thread a bit, but I will write a summary of my own findings when I am done.

Today did not start off so well. I got the wheel back together, connected the batteries and powered it on. It started beeping like crazy and would not shut down. The beep sequence (I will post a video) was short-short-short-long. Apparently this is a KS S18 fault mode. I fired up the KS app and it told me that the firmware had not finished updating. I tried doing the update and it failed several times. I then fished out my old android so I could connect EUC World, and it said the same - firmware needed to be updated and listed it as version 1.0 and would not get any data from the wheel. I eventually tried again with the KS app and now it allowed me to update the firmware. I had to do it twice for it to take.

Now the wheel powered on, but I got a hall sensor error. The design of the HALL sensor connector by the motor wire connector is really shitty. KS has used a ton of silicone on the connector and the wires are way to small and short. I opened up the cover to the motor wire and hall sensor connector and sure enough, the connector had come loose. I cleaned the extra silicone of the connector and got it to snap in place. Now the wheel works again as normal, I just have to finish putting the covers and pedals back on and then I have to start fiddling with centering the tire on the rim as it is a bit wobbly ATM. A good note though is that the fender is now straight (it appears) so hopefully no more rubbing fender on the battery pack inside cover.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j6p1eejoj7dzea6/2020-12-29 18.14.13.mov?raw=1

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0dawrpfd9lq6h5m/2020-12-29 18.22.03.png?raw=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bybd3sx3w0qx58s/2020-12-29 18.22.18.png?raw=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1m0r0943tgde8ng/2020-12-29 19.14.13.jpg?raw=0

Edited by FinRider
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For any S18 owners out there that may be interested in modding their wheel, I have edited my original post to include a "Second" more robust/permanent fixing method for the original King Song flimsy rubber mudguard straps!!!

Edited by fbhb
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16 hours ago, fbhb said:

For any S18 owners out there that may be interested in modding their wheel, I have edited my original post to include a "Second" more robust/permanent fixing method for the original King Song flimsy rubber mudguard straps!!!

I had been assuming that bearings were pressed into each arm, with the outer race fixed to the arm and inner races in contact and rotating together. But I'm not a mechanic and have little experience.

Question: Your shim of the 11 mm hole to 10 mm in pivot arm: Are there bearings in each arm, or two in one arm? Is the barrel nut designed to rotate inside the arm on a bearing, or is it "fixed" on that side and all of the rotation carried in two bearings in the other arm?

~ Erik

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1 hour ago, Yellowjacket said:

Rehab1, fbhb gives you credit for the idea of adding a second bearing to the upper pivot point. I can't find what you said. Can you explain?

I don’t want to step on fbhb’s excellent thread so here is a link that explains my second bearing placement. 
 

 

Edited by Rehab1
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1 hour ago, Yellowjacket said:

I had been assuming that bearings were pressed into each arm, with the outer race fixed to the arm and inner races in contact and rotating together. But I'm not a mechanic and have little experience.

The 2 linkage arms on each side of the S18 have 2x bearings pressed into All but the Shock mounting holes and in particular, the TOP pivot point that bolts to the Motherboard Aluminium housing (which Only has 1x bearing). 

This means that, straight from the King Song factory, your S18 should have a total of 14 bearings in the 4 pivot arms! (Although, as explained in the OP, my S18 was missing 1x bearing from the Middle pivot point which had to be replaced!)

2 hours ago, Yellowjacket said:

Question: Your shim of the 11 mm hole to 10 mm in pivot arm: Are there bearings in each arm, or two in one arm? Is the barrel nut designed to rotate inside the arm on a bearing, or is it "fixed" on that side and all of the rotation carried in two bearings in the other arm?

So in my Final build, After adding the second bearing (as @Rehab1 has kindly linked you to) All the bearing pockets will have 2x bearings fitted, giving a total of 16 bearings (but 14 if you leave it in King Song's stock configuration).

The barrel nut does indeed rotate along with the inner race of the bearings (once clamped up with the Allen bolt), just as long as the assembly is done correctly to rectify King Song's lack of Any kind of bearing spacers!  You will see from my OP that I obtained a selection of different thickness shim spacers to tailor the correct clearance at each pivot point, once clamped up against the inner race in each case!

The main thing to be aware of is to make sure the bearing race that pivots against the other bearing's race of the Middle pivot point (this is the pivot point that comes with the "Big" flat washer fitted that needs to be removed/thrown out!) has the correct bearing spacer fitted in between the 2 sets of bearings!  The bearing spacer will need to Only make contact with the inner race of each of 2 bearings and also allow just enough clearance between the 2 mating pivot arms! 

In assembling the other pivot points to the Top of the grey sliders, you again will need to make sure that spacers are used to clamp Only the inner race and allow a suitable clearance between the pivot arm and the mating surface of the sliders. 

The same will apply when assembling the Top pivot point to the Motherboard housing, to make sure the pivot arm does not make contact with the Aluminium housing during suspension movement.  I aimed to have approximately .2mm of clearance at each of the pivot points, by using feeler gauges to get an accurate measurement.

Hope this helps to explain the assembly steps more clearly, but be sure to post back here if you need any more clarification?

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3 hours ago, fbhb said:

You and Rehab1 are being generous with your time. Thank you.

You used your shims to get the separation you wanted between the arms at the middle point. Why did you decide not to use a material like Delrin? Is the arm casting  too rough? Perhaps shim/Delrin/shim? Or to the stainless spacers you installed have the same overall coefficient of friction, and it's just not worth the hassle?

And, totally unrelated: I have leaned pretty hard on the information you provided here in your tear down to alert other buyers/riders of the KS S18 on Facebook forums, etc. I've written EUCWorld and King Song directly. But I did not link directly to your page here because (1) I did not want to jeopardize the availablity of the information if King Song wanted to squelch it, and (2) I did not want your voice or abilities censored in any way if King Song was in a twist.

Yes, I have a tendency to be a little wary of corporate entities.

BUT, I do not have your level of expertise, and I have haad to broad brush my thoughts. What do you think about my linking any inquiries directly to this thread?

Thank you again,

~ Erik D.

 

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2 hours ago, Yellowjacket said:

You used your shims to get the separation you wanted between the arms at the middle point. Why did you decide not to use a material like Delrin? Is the arm casting  too rough? Perhaps shim/Delrin/shim? Or to the stainless spacers you installed have the same overall coefficient of friction, and it's just not worth the hassle?

The shims were purposely used following the standard engineering practice of bolting/clamping adjacent bearings or components together by incorporating a bearing spacer between Only the inner race and any other inner race, component or fixture once bolted/locked together.

To try and better explain this, I have included a simple diagram below of the way the 2 bearings in a skate board wheel are fitted to the axle of the trucks hanger!  You will notice that there is a large spacer which Only makes contact with the inner race of each of the 2 bearings, along with smaller spacers (speed rings) at each of the other sides of the inner race.  In doing this the outer race and therefore, whatever component the bearings are pressed into (in this case the skate board wheel), will freely rotate without any friction or being impeded by contact with any other surface!

uDxZCbKMOk4JTRtTlVLOXHHH0kHZIg_NZh6mYnkJ

Now, if you translate this standard practice into the example of Any of our S18 pivot points, but in particular the middle pivot point, what we are trying to achieve is clearance between the 2 mating pivot arm assemblies on each side of the wheel.  These 2 pivot arms need to be separated to move Freely past one another as the suspension moves through it's travel (much the same as All the other pivot points ie. the sliders junction and Top Motherboard housing junction). 

Unfortunately, the way this pivot point in particular has been assembled at the King Song factory, it is basically bolted/clamped solidly together by the "Big Flat" washer, causing binding against each other as evidenced by the Gold paint being worn off where the arms touch at this point!

I hope this helps to answer your question about why I chose Not to use a material like Delrin at the middle pivot point, because the issue is that the friction is Only caused by incorrect assembly methods and Not the material used when installing the spacers that should have been present in the first place! 

As long as the 2 pivot arms are correctly spaced away from each other when bolted together, then All friction is totally eliminated (the bearings, spacers, barrel nut, once bolted/clamped together via "inner race", then allows the pivot arm along with the "outer race" to rotate around freely, just as the skate board wheel would) with No need for Delrin to be used along with the much needed bearing spacer.

Edited by fbhb
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Thank you.

So, (because I am experience limited), the washers / spacers I see between the two pivot arms are not resisting the clamping forces of bolt-barrel nut between the two pivot arms? That force is resisted by an inner spacer I can't see?

Or have I confused your project with another photo, where a factory S18 had four or five washers between the two arms as a spacer?.

After seeing your work, and realizing the bearings were pressed into the pivot arms, I wondered why that big flat washer was there. I actually thought King Song might have added that (with Loctite!) as a safety measure to keep the pivot arms from coming apart in case the bearings broke down, as they are likely to do with the way the S18 was assembled. But, by having the flat washer there, the suspension could not work freely.

Thank you again for helping me understand the details.

May I refer others to your work here?
 

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7 minutes ago, Yellowjacket said:

May I refer others to your work here?

Yes, I meant to mention that fact as well in the previous post, as I have No problem with others seeing this.  I have mainly put this together with a view to helping as many people as possible and have already had @Jack King Song  agree to read it some months back, so the more corporates along with potential owners that get to read it the better!

Edited by fbhb
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4 hours ago, monstar said:

which stand are you using? I went to EUC Army website but couldn't find it :D

The stand shown in All the photos is my EUC Army one I ordered for the Z10!  During the overhaul/rebuild, that stand worked fine whilst the suspension had Zero pressure in the air shock.  However, whilst the S18 was out of action I ordered one of @Duf's "Tall Boy" stands specifically for the S18 from his EUC Army site, so I now have one that accommodates the S18 correctly.

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fbhb, in August, Jack King Song wrote you that the company was taking your mods into consideration. A week or so ago, EUCco wrote me and listed some improvements, but none of the critical manufacturing flubs were on that list. Now, in 2021, I see the big flat washer remains on wheels being sold. Has Jack KS been back in touch?

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2 hours ago, Yellowjacket said:

Now, in 2021, I see the big flat washer remains on wheels being sold. Has Jack KS been back in touch?

I have Not heard anything back from Jack  and yes, I know that the "big flat washer" still remains on the updated version of the S18, but at least there has been some progress with the addition of spacers and more care taken with alignment!

The well respected Russian EcoDrift website, that I have quoted from on here in the past, did a a strip down recently of an S18 that had the addition of some improvements.  They commented on and were happy with what had been achieved so far, but did go on to say that there could still be more done by King Song to reduce any remaining niggles some owners may want to address themselves!

I have left a link to that article here and they also did another write up on the most recent S18 batch that came into their stock, easily recognised by a change in the tire that's been fitted!

https://ecodrift.ru/2020/10/16/rabota-podveski-s-zavoda/

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5 hours ago, sbouju said:

About those "barrels" (?), Did you need to change any of them, or were they just slightly modified for less thickness?

I Did Not have to replace any barrels, as they were not damaged during my disassembly process. I Only modified the 2 barrels (Middle pivot point) that pass by the fender during suspension travel, to allow more clearance and avoid them rubbing on the fender!

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