yuweng Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Saw Finn's post here then did a quick search & found this hopefully useful for you guys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post EMA Posted January 31, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2021 On 29/1/2021 at 10:25 PM, EMA said: After 1500km the knock sound started on my EX so I disassemble the motor to find out what’s happening: As already described by @pontoonpete I can confirm that the sound is caused by a bearing moving into a misaligned motor, bearings are not hold in place but they can move laterally a bit. In my case the side cover are not tight and don’t hold the bearing in place (the factory use something to hold them), on the left side I can even put and take out the bearing with my hands without heating the cover. I can move it with one hand…: https://www.dropbox.com/s/92pqfnn3taezi9y/bad side cover.mp4?dl=0 This problem is also amplified by some tolerance error in the bearing position, probably related to bad side cover. After closing the motor side the bearing is not completely in touch with the stator inside, I’ve 3d printed a tiny ring ( 0.4mm each side) to fit the gap. With the spacing ring inserted in a good side cover the motor is centered even with only 1 bearing as you can see in the video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pf8mzuicgj42b9x/cover_ok.mp4?dl=0 reference photos and videos here : https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qgwx1mfok1osmfo/AACRCQSy8fY4ZJIjaWqqvfPka?dl=0 i've closed the motor and the knock is gone, it turns smooth and feel solid (it wasn't before), bearings seems fine, tomorrow i’ll seal the motor and try the wheel again Tested the wheel today with no issue,better than before 😅👍 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augus Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) On 1/29/2021 at 10:25 PM, EMA said: After 1500km the knock sound started on my EX so I disassemble the motor to find out what’s happening: As already described by @pontoonpete I can confirm that the sound is caused by a bearing moving into a misaligned motor, bearings are not hold in place but they can move laterally a bit. In my case the side cover are not tight and don’t hold the bearing in place (the factory use something to hold them), on the left side I can even put and take out the bearing with my hands without heating the cover. I can move it with one hand…: https://www.dropbox.com/s/92pqfnn3taezi9y/bad side cover.mp4?dl=0 This problem is also amplified by some tolerance error in the bearing position, probably related to bad side cover. After closing the motor side the bearing is not completely in touch with the stator inside, I’ve 3d printed a tiny ring ( 0.4mm each side) to fit the gap. With the spacing ring inserted in a good side cover the motor is centered even with only 1 bearing as you can see in the video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pf8mzuicgj42b9x/cover_ok.mp4?dl=0 reference photos and videos here : https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qgwx1mfok1osmfo/AACRCQSy8fY4ZJIjaWqqvfPka?dl=0 i've closed the motor and the knock is gone, it turns smooth and feel solid (it wasn't before), bearings seems fine, tomorrow i’ll seal the motor and try the wheel again EMA, can you upload the 'stl' file of spacing ring to Thingiverse?. Thanks Edited January 31, 2021 by Augus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 12 hours ago, Augus said: EMA, can you upload the 'stl' file of spacing ring to Thingiverse?. Thanks EX or RS ? i'm doing both btw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 On 1/31/2021 at 1:12 PM, yuweng said: Saw Finn's post here then did a quick search & found this hopefully useful for you guys I doubt very much that this ring protects the bearing from water ingress, but only from dirt. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augus Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 10 hours ago, EMA said: EX or RS ? i'm doing both btw RS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 20 minutes ago, Augus said: RS https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zernjdwgt54s0zr/AAD0JmlGVQwuyvXsWGkwwWBZa?dl=0 different thickness in the folder, check the slicer before print, should be at least 2 layers (tpu in my case) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augus Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 23 hours ago, EMA said: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zernjdwgt54s0zr/AAD0JmlGVQwuyvXsWGkwwWBZa?dl=0 different thickness in the folder, check the slicer before print, should be at least 2 layers (tpu in my case) Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach N Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) So I am just brainstorming here, but I got the knocking on my RS19 the other day due to a bearing misalignment. I replaced both bearings just ot be safe, rather than re-seat the old ones. While heating the rim to release the bearings it got me thinking, could the bearing alignment issue be due to different material expansion rates riding in colder conditions? I leave my wheel in the garage on the concrete due to the fire issues, so it is colder when I start my ride. The motor housing is made out of aluminum and the bearings are steel. As the motor warms up the aluminum is absorbing the heat much faster than the bearings. So could the housing expand faster than the bearings, letting it loosen and shift? Just a crazy thought from a newer rider. Edited February 16, 2021 by Zach N 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiiijojjo Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 (edited) 450km in on my rs and I just got the knocks after riding 10km on moist gravel... When lifting and freespinning the wheel it's oblivious that it's become unaligned. I store my wheel in the house if that helps anyone. In total I've ridden it once in heavy rain early on, and on moist road for maybe 100km total otherwise I've done maybe 20km of off road and the rest in dry conditions.. These bearings can't handle even the smallest amounts of moisture. Now I have to invest in some expensive ones. So all there is left now is waiting for it to burn my house down and kill me and my family Edit: after rereading this entire thread I will try to disassemble the motor and reseat the bearings, possibly print one of those spacers if needed.. I'm no less furious at gotway but at least I possibly won't have to spend good money on expensive bearings.. Yet.. final edit: bearings didn't fail, they aren't even rusty. The problem was misalignment of motor to which i have found an, at least, temporary solution - read later comment Edited February 15, 2021 by xiiijojjo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 21 hours ago, xiiijojjo said: 450km in on my rs and I just got the knocks after riding 10km on moist gravel... When lifting and freespinning the wheel it's oblivious that it's become unaligned. I store my wheel in the house if that helps anyone. In total I've ridden it once in heavy rain early on, and on moist road for maybe 100km total otherwise I've done maybe 20km of off road and the rest in dry conditions.. These bearings can't handle even the smallest amounts of moisture. Now I have to invest in some expensive ones. So all there is left now is waiting for it to burn my house down and kill me and my family Edit: after rereading this entire thread I will try to disassemble the motor and reseat the bearings, possibly print one of those spacers if needed.. I'm no less furious at gotway but at least I possibly won't have to spend good money on expensive bearings.. Yet.. i know it's not a pleasure to open the wheel and the motor, but the knock is not a bearing failure and it's not related to rains, snow, moisture ecc ecc. if you can open and align it with spacers, i have fix 3 motors and they are still running fine after this :fingercrossed: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiiijojjo Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, EMA said: i know it's not a pleasure to open the wheel and the motor, but the knock is not a bearing failure and it's not related to rains, snow, moisture ecc ecc. if you can open and align it with spacers, i have fix 3 motors and they are still running fine after this :fingercrossed: After an arduous day of disassembling and reassembling the euc i have fixed the misalignment. The bearings seem fine although i didn't want to remove the seal and take a closer look. Overall there seemed to be no rust anywhere inside but a lot of the gotway goop was on the the coils closet to the hall sensor so i removed as much as i could. I suspect my fix will be temporary as i don't own a printer to print those spacers on there yet. I "simply" removed the cover of the motor to expose the stator and knocked the bearing back into the motor cover(only a couple millimeters) and reattached it. Only saving grace to this whole thing is how relatively easy the motor is to get out and open from previous models. Also i suspect the cover would not have needed to be pulled off at all for this to effectively halt the knocking sound as i suspect a few taps with a mallet would have knocked it back in place. Fingers crossed this solution lasts a while. Edited February 15, 2021 by xiiijojjo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Rides Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) Wondering if anyone saw the below video of a v11 bearing replacement and hub modification. Before the bearing housing is re-installed, the guy drills a hole in the hub and appears to plug it up with some sort of rubber tubing that he caulks into place. According to the comments, he does this because after the temperature inside the housing heats up, the only place for the heat to escape is through the bearings. However, when it bearing housing is cooled quickly, like when riding through water, a vacuum is created drawing moisture into the interior through the bearings. The moisture cannot escape easily causing buildup and premature bearing failure (rusting out). By allowing the air pressure to equalize through the hole it eliminates the vacuum and prevents moisture buildup thereby preserving the bearings. Would love to know the material he uses in the video to plug the hole and what he's using to glue it into place. From the EcoDrift website, it looks like rubber tubing is used with foam rubber glued into the ends. Also, it looks like the guy in this video uses a thin layer of automobile differential sealant to seal up the bearing plate to the wheel. EcoDrift says this might not be necessary but it can't hurt (they use grease instead of sealant). Any thoughts on this "fix"? Should this be done to all hollow bore motors? Edited February 23, 2021 by Wise Rides 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 With total lack of information from manufactures it seems community awareness and consensus is becoming more clear. For all hollow motors (Begode/Inmotion) it's not a matter of if but when the bearings will fail due to the frail protection of a small rubber seal, the seal on the bearing is just not enough to protect the bearings from dirt or moisture ingress over time, you can be lucky and the wheel will run thousands of km/miles before a problem or unlucky and just ride couple of km/miles as we have seen. Changing the bearing or motor just restarts the problem and it will happen again in time. The only way to protect the bearings is from custom 3D printed seals fitted with waterproof grease, now this also opens up problems of it's own because you need to find someone who can 3D print it for you, use the correct material (we need to think summer and at least some heat resistance due to outside heat, motor heat + friction) and then it's the matter of taking the wheel apart fitting the seal and perhaps maintenance over time, everyone with a hollow motor should do this to protect their wheel but it's doubtful everyone will. Personally I regret my V11 purchase, not because I don't like riding it because I can't ride it until I have said 3D printed seal, so right now I have an expensive toy sitting there for months without use because I already changed motor and don't want to go through that process again and I also bought it from Ali which would be a pain if it breaks again (that's on me I know). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Rides Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 7 hours ago, Rawnei said: With total lack of information from manufactures it seems community awareness and consensus is becoming more clear. For all hollow motors (Begode/Inmotion) it's not a matter of if but when the bearings will fail due to the frail protection of a small rubber seal, the seal on the bearing is just not enough to protect the bearings from dirt or moisture ingress over time, you can be lucky and the wheel will run thousands of km/miles before a problem or unlucky and just ride couple of km/miles as we have seen. Changing the bearing or motor just restarts the problem and it will happen again in time. The only way to protect the bearings is from custom 3D printed seals fitted with waterproof grease, now this also opens up problems of it's own because you need to find someone who can 3D print it for you, use the correct material (we need to think summer and at least some heat resistance due to outside heat, motor heat + friction) and then it's the matter of taking the wheel apart fitting the seal and perhaps maintenance over time, everyone with a hollow motor should do this to protect their wheel but it's doubtful everyone will. Personally I regret my V11 purchase, not because I don't like riding it because I can't ride it until I have said 3D printed seal, so right now I have an expensive toy sitting there for months without use because I already changed motor and don't want to go through that process again and I also bought it from Ali which would be a pain if it breaks again (that's on me I know). There are a lot of 3D Printing services on the internet now. I found this website that compiles a list: https://all3dp.com/1/best-online-3d-printing-service-3d-print-services/ Of the list, I've heard of Shapways: https://www.shapeways.com/ They seems to do small, consumer size orders. If I ever get my v11 (back ordered on ewheels) I'll try and have a bearing seal/flange printed up based on some plans I found on this forum. I'll then install the "breather hole" and the bearing seal and it should significantly extend the life of the bearings. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post xiiijojjo Posted February 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) On 2/23/2021 at 12:54 AM, Wise Rides said: Before the bearing housing is re-installed, the guy drills a hole in the hub and appears to plug it up with some sort of rubber tubing that he caulks into place. According to the comments, he does this because after the temperature inside the housing heats up, the only place for the heat to escape is through the bearings. The temperature in the housing does not heat up beyond the insignificant heat produced from within the bearing due to friction so all that hassle is for nothing. All this misinformation is starting to annoy the shit out of me along with the multiple different ways people try to fix the same problem when the solutions are much less complex than what people assume/claim. I have read this entire thread 2 or more times now (and other related threads even more) and most of the so-called solutions are overcomplicating the fixing process or are downright not true and based on fringe theories. So for any readers dealing with bearing knocking or suspected bearing failure please disregard most of this (and other) thread except the following: For suspected bearing failure: 1. Confirm that you are in fact dealing with a bearing failure. The most easy way to identify this problem is to first place your euc horizontally on the floor and to manually spin the wheel with your hand both clockwise and counter clockwise. IF the euc makes a constant grinding sound when turning the wheel you are most likely dealing with a bearing failure. 2. To confirm this suspicion place the euc in a vertical position and turn it on, lift it slightly off of the floor and force it to accelerate, you don't need it to go fast, you only need to confirm that the euc will still make a constant grinding noise. 3. If it still makes a constant grinding sound congratulations you have to buy new bearings and replace the old ones. For bearing knocking: This can easily be confused for a bearing failure but if you have this issue you are " in luck" 1. Confirm that you are in fact dealing with bearing knocking. The most easy way to identify this problem is to first place your euc horizontally on the floor and to manually spin the wheel with your hand both clockwise and counter clockwise. IF the euc makes an intermittent knocking sound when turning the wheel in either or both directions you are most likely dealing with bearing knocking. 2. To confirm this suspicion place the euc in a vertical position and turn it on, lift it slightly off of the floor and force it to accelerate slowly at first, the knocking should be most pronounced the slower you go and each time you hear a knock you should be able to feel a bump of vibrations in the handle you are lifting the euc by. The more you accelerate the less pronounced the vibrational feedback gets, and the less sound the knock will produce, until you start to accelerate it very fast and the knocking sounds along with the vibrations should ebb out to the point where they are impossible to hear/feel, and should reappear as you decelerate the wheel to a very slow speed. 3. If this is the case for you congratulations you are dealing with bearing knocking and the reason is that one of the two bearings has become unaligned within the motor cover in which it resides. Now there are two fixes the first is potentially the ideal fix and the second is my own temporary solution which might prove to be worthwhile in the long run. Solution 1 - potentially permanent fix. The bearings are supposed to fit snugly within the motor cover but if a bearing has 2-3mm (yes that little) of wiggle room within the motor cover due to sloppy manufacturing processes of making the motor cover, a bearing can misalign itself from external vibrations caused by jumping, going up curbs, going fast in general and probably many other reasons. Once the bearing has been unaligned the knocking will start. 1. Remove both side covers of the euc, disconnect batteries on both sides and turn the euc on after. This will remove all electricity from its circuits and make it safe to work with both for you and for not damaging components. 2. Disconnect motor wires from the mainboard and remove the plastic body of the euc by unscrewing the screws fixing it to the motor. For gotway rs this is easy for other models i don't know. Also unscrew and remove pedal hangers. 3. I am left foot dominant so i started by taking off the left motor cover as i rightly assumed that side was under the most stress in my daily riding with one legged riding and whatnot. I looked into the now unattached left motor cover and saw no signs of unalignment but then i took a mallet (wooden or rubber) and knocked the bearing into the motor cover and heard a metal to metal *clunk* meaning the bearing was not pushed all the way into the motor cover as it was supposed to be, but had been pushed "inwards" towards the rotational axis (center of the motor) by a few millimeters. 4. Now to make sure this unalignment doesn't happen again you need to 3d print some of these spacers our beloved @EMA has made available from this link https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zernjdwgt54s0zr/AAD0JmlGVQwuyvXsWGkwwWBZa?dl=0 (these are for RS i believe but i know he has for EX too) In regards to what thickness to use i cannot tell you precisely as it may vary from euc to euc but i approximate that my bearing had moved around 3mm due to grooves or rather scratches within the bearing housing of the motor cover. However i suspect any spacer smaller than 2mm will be too little, also if you make one too thick friction between the spacer and bearing may cause problems but that is only a suspicion and is not substantiated. Once you have fitted a spacer of the correct thickness and reassembled the euc the knocking issue should not return, for that side of the motor cover, but may very well start from the other side one day, i don't know yet. Solution 2- potentially temporary but easy and fast solution: 1. Remove both side covers of the euc, disconnect batteries on both sides and turn the euc on after. This will remove all electricity from its circuits and make it safe to work with both for you and for not damaging components. 2. Disconnect motor wires from the mainboard and remove the plastic body of the euc by unscrewing the screws fixing it to the motor. For gotway rs this is easy for other models i don't know. Also unscrew and remove pedal hangers. 3. Put the wheel horizontally on floor and lightly tap the motor cover with a wooden or rubber mallet around the center of the motor cover 20 times or so. You don't want to hit it too hard and dent the motor cover as you are only trying to push the bearing back into place by a few millimeters but you also don't want to hit it too lightly as the force will be insufficient for pushing the bearing back in place. 4. Flip the wheel over and tap in the same fashion of the other side and now both bearings should be rightly positioned within the bearing housings of the motor covers without having to unscrew the motor covers at all. I suspect this solution is temporary and that the knocking will return but after mistreating my euc for a good 40km yesterday to test it, the knocks still have not returned and all seems well for now. If you just need to get rid of the knocks quickly and don't have access to a 3d printer this is a good solution and may prove to work for 100's of kilometers. If or when the knocks return, which you should be prepared for, hopefully you will have printed a few different spacers in the mean time so that you can potentially permanently fix the knocking issue the next time around IF the knocks return. I hope this guide will stop people from spending good money on bearings they may not need (yet or ever), or stop them from wasting their time trying many of the different "solutions" in this thread( and the Gotway RS thread and others too), many of which will surely seem completely uneducated guesses in light of this post. I also want to thank the people in this thread who have worked to delegitimize these false "solutions" and work towards isolating the actual issues and solutions especially @EMA who has been pivotal in this regard. Also for making the spacers available! I will finish by saying that the quality of information on this forum would not be the same without his sharp wit and observations. edit: I want to repost this on other threads spreading misinformation about the bearing failure / knocking issue but i don't want to come off as spamming. So maybe just refer people to this post if you see misinformation. Edited February 24, 2021 by xiiijojjo 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie888 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 @xiiijojjoAwesome guide to hollow bore motor & bearings. This should be a sticky IMO but being the jr around here, I'll let @meepmeepmayer meeps decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Scottie888 said: @xiiijojjoAwesome guide to hollow bore motor & bearings. This should be a sticky IMO but being the jr around here, I'll let @meepmeepmayer meeps decide. There's no juniors, only mods You can split the post off and sticky that if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 @xiiijojjo tnx man, really appreciate your words. of course i've uploaded the RS spacer becouse the motor is way more popular but i can share also the same spacers for the EX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukasz Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 I have tested my the solution over 4 weeks and several trips in rainy weather / wet conditions / rides through 3-5 cm water puddles . No issues so far, no strange noises from bearings. I won't offer warranty but I can say that for reasonable wet conditions / rainy weather / wet rides my solution works OK. There is already second set of my protection installed, and next two will be installed soon, so next update in around 2-3 weeks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post EMA Posted March 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 9, 2021 yesterday i've opened an RS T motor, never saw a ring like this in other videos or photos on the web... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiiijojjo Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 @EMA Where did you find that ring specifically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Just now, xiiijojjo said: @EMA Where did you find that ring specifically? inside the motor, RS-T, it's like the ring i've 3d printed 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiiijojjo Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, EMA said: inside the motor, RS-T, it's like the ring i've 3d printed I see, they've started making their own spacers. This could essentially remove all potential for bearing knocking in the future. Edited March 9, 2021 by xiiijojjo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 The ring sits behind the bearing to prevent the bearing from slipping? The problem with water and dirt from the outside is therefore still ignored? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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