V11 Cutout - User Error - Inmotion FTW

[Rawnei]

19 minutes ago, Zopper said:

I'm missing time units on the charts.

And is there any chance that the tilt-back at high speed is slower because you are accelerating slower? If the horizontal axis has the same scale on all charts, then the rate of acceleration at low speed is higher than at high speed, and this could also be a cause for the slower tilt-back. This goes in with my experience with Inmotion V10, where the tilt-back growth is proportional to how much I'm pushing it. And if I cruise and just slowly reach the top speed, the tiltback comes slowly as well.

Don't think it makes a difference, the curve is more interesting, but I added a timestamp on the charts for your leisure.

[Zopper]

1 minute ago, Rawnei said:

Don't think it makes a difference, the curve is more interesting, but I added a timestamp on the charts for your leisure.

Wow, thanks for the timestamps.  It's one of the things that were drilled into me at school - always be clear what is on each axis and what scale it is. Here, it makes it clear that the faster you go, the slower you are accelerating, which I was only guessing before.

[Planemo]

8 hours ago, Ádám Szitás said:

I sure wouldn't want to listen to it every second though, maybe this was their idea as well?

You see, as a rider I want a single, simple alarm to be the only thing I need to worry about when it comes to available power. And I DO want it to shout at me. Repeatedly. Like a nagging wife. Every second or even more frequently, like 5 beeps a second... I dont want confusion, multiple audible alarms, tiltback, combination of the above or anything else. Just an audible noise of some sort to indicate that the power I am asking at whatever the current voltage is, is nearing the limit.

I am not a fanboy of any wheel, but Gotway has sussed this problem to a T in my opinion. Given that in my experience, the 80% alarm gives enough headroom to accomodate even acceleration, bumps or hills when you hit it, the only reason I can see of a rider overleaning a GW wheel is if theybdont hear the beep (easily solved by moving the buzzer) or if they are mental enough to push through the noise. No ifs or buts. It works.

No tiltback, no confusing multiple alarms with different beep sequences, just a constant, incessant beep that drives you nuts if you stray over the threshold.

If the beeps drive the rider nuts at the speeds they wish to travel, then they need a faster wheel. Simples.

[Zopper]

7 hours ago, Planemo said:

You see, as a rider I want a single, simple alarm to be the only thing I need to worry about when it comes to available power. And I DO want it to shout at me.

[snipped]

No tiltback, no confusing multiple alarms with different beep sequences, just a constant, incessant beep that drives you nuts if you stray over the threshold.

If the beeps drive the rider nuts at the speeds they wish to travel, then they need a faster wheel. Simples.

Well, and I want to know that I’m nearing to that limit. If I get there sharply, it’s fine that it it shouts at me. But if I just forget myself and slowly raise my speed, I dońt need the blasting alarms. A nudge from tilt-back is enough to tell me I should go slower.

Everyone wants different behavior and I’m glad that each company has their own approach, so we can select what we like. 

[Rawnei]

2 hours ago, Zopper said:

Well, and I want to know that I’m nearing to that limit. If I get there sharply, it’s fine that it it shouts at me. But if I just forget myself and slowly raise my speed, I dońt need the blasting alarms. A nudge from tilt-back is enough to tell me I should go slower.

Everyone wants different behavior and I’m glad that each company has their own approach, so we can select what we like. 

The most important thing is that the mechanism which gives you this information is obvious and noticeable, you don't want to miss this critical piece of information that it's giving you, and it's not as simple as "select what we like", often you notice these things after you bought a wheel. 😉

[Rawnei]

Some follow up, I spoke a bit to Liam about this and regarding the alert it can not be made louder unfortunately, it's as loud as the V11 beeper/speaker goes already, it's way too low to overpower 50kmh+ wind noise IMO.

Regarding tilt-back behavior I did not get much response, I think Inmotion should tune it to be faster and thus more noticeable when you have 50/55kmh limit set instead of slow creeping tilt-back which can be mistaken or missed.

[supercurio]

I've been working on a video to demonstrate the 5s gap between alarms, which is the main factor that lead to @EUChristian's crash in my opinion.
Here's a preview of the full video. In short, some early conclusions.

• I was able to replicate the 5s gap on the V10F
• The alarm behavior, when tested in specific conditions is flawed, unpredictable and erratic
• Tilt-back behavior is inconsistent with alarms
• Tilt-back happens too slowly and does not trigger at all is some conditions
• In the demo video, pedals tilt forward instead of back.
• Safety systems on Inmotion wheels are poorly defined and have buggy implementations.

@Inmotion Global Liam, please forward to your safety specialist and engineers.

In order to not divert the discussion from the original topic, I'll create a separate topc when publishing the full video.

 

[siffleur]

@supercurio, do you know if this ever got fixed and pushed into new inmotion firmware?

 

[supercurio]

8 hours ago, siffleur said:

@supercurio, do you know if this ever got fixed and pushed into new inmotion firmware?

 

For V11 / V12 yes, unfortunately the V10F got no update since.