V11 Cutout - User Error - Inmotion FTW

[Wgm]

22 minutes ago, buell47 said:

My first V8 worked always fine, it beeped at me an tilted me back if I'm deaf, but then on a sunny Sunday I faceplanted without any beep and without tiltback. 

But that was my fault and not the V8 fault. I accelerated just to fast and to long in combination with a little bump. 

Since then I know that beeps and tiltback can be passed if you accelerate to aggressive beyond the wheels capabilites. 

I get it but I'd rather wheels have the headroom so that every new rider doesn't have to learn from the same experience.

[GoGeorgeGo]

45 minutes ago, buell47 said:

My first V8 worked always fine, it beeped at me an tilted me back if I'm deaf, but then on a sunny Sunday I faceplanted without any beep and without tiltback. 

But that was my fault and not the V8 fault. I accelerated just to fast and to long in combination with a little bump. 

Since then I know that beeps and tiltback can be passed if you accelerate to aggressive beyond the wheels capabilites. 

Last real fall I had was on my v8 also.  I was riding it way to hard coming through some really rough sidewalks near my house.  Was cruising about 14-15 mph when i just kinda hit a little drop , it was only like 2 inches but i instantly overpowered the wheel and it dumped me.  I had pushed it to tiltback and beeps many times but this time, it never stood a chance lol

[mike_bike_kite]

15 hours ago, EUChristian said:

 Happened in front of my two kids.

Never show off in front of your kids with power tools - fate has a wicked sense of humour  I thought the top speed was 50kmh on the V11 but Inmotion unlocked 55kmh for experienced riders with the acknowledgement that that was eating into the safety margin? You're way braver than I am to do those speeds but, as someone else said, if you're hitting those speeds regularly then you should move to a 100v Gotway.

Edited November 16, 2020 by mike_bike_kite

[.....]

Damn, this sucks to hear. I wont even specualte why it happened, only that is sucks and I'm glad you can still even chat about it. I like to try and stay under tiltback on both my wheels. One is rated at 31mph, but i have a tilt at 28 and REALLY listen for the beep. Hitting beeps isnt a warning to me, its a mistake. On my sherm, I'm trying to get used to 40mph being its 'cap out' speed. Maybe 45mph, but no way in hell I'm pushing it near 50mph for long. With BOTH mine, it gets progressively harder to gain speed as Im nearing the upper limits. I have yet to suffer a cutout or overlean, but as I get more comfy, i fear it more.

Please let us know if you come to any conclusions about what happened.  Battery sag is a BIG deal. I had no idea how a little guy like me can sag a 3kw 100v wheel to 50% in just 20 miles. Its really quite scary how quickly we can deplete these cells momentarily. I guess the question remains... Did your kids seem to worry, or did they wanna ride next?

Edited November 16, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[XaXou]

Damn, that's scary, hope you'll recover quickly. 

Definitely those kind of things should not happen.

I thank god that my V11 cutout occurred at very slow speed...

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Wgm said:

I get it but I'd rather wheels have the headroom so that every new rider doesn't have to learn from the same experience.

So relying on "headroom" only or looking at x watt motor or y watt electric max will end up in situations for someone eventually. 

As for below from this point read OP=you or you guys as a collective. 

The more aggressive and high speed people tap into the higher is the risk for something to go wrong. Adding pads to push the wheels further does not really help. 

Now I have Inmotion pads coming soon. And yes I have been riding faster recently (upto 50kmh). But claiming that V11 has a software bug on 1st reported cutout I just don't buy that. Yes it is true there are issues with V11 like bearings, tapping notices, saddel mounts points. 

But it seems fairly safe to me as an EUC still. 

The day where we have 300% headroom that is when you can start relaying on this. But since this is a 1 wheel traction and that has to maintain balance on 1 motor, EUC will always have an element of risk. Anything can fail at any point. 

That is also why I really think going beyond/above 50kmh is not suited for an EUC. 

On an Inmotion you are met with 2 warnings about this. 25kmh factory setting and even have to unlock fancy more. 

No the interesting part here is why KS back in the days had a 200km lock before you could go above 40kmh. Looking at you only done 143ish km so far. 

Now that said I fully understand you don't want to ride it again. Riding an EUC is very much a trust bordline faith issue. 

But having done close to 800km range on my V11, I can say I trust this wheel (mine) much more than any of my other EUCs. 

But I can also say I don't push it to its limits. Max output power so far 3800w and max braking power is 1800ish w. But as winter closes the more careful I need to ride as batteries chemistry is not happy about cold weather. 

I hope you recover. Now the gear you used might have helped you. But I have my lesson learned from my accidents. 

I have partly skipped wrist guards due to winter time wearing gloves. It is a trade off how much gear to wear. But reading your story. I am glad I invested in a goretex mc suit with lvl 2 3D0 pads. Here shown with my V10f 

 

[Rawnei]

It's sad to see so many people just dismissing OP saying rider-error overlean when he is saying it wasn't.

@EUChristian since you said you rode it home it doesn't seem electronics broke or you wouldn't be able to ride it.

5 hours ago, Inmotion Global said:

hi，

We are deeply sad to hear that you encounter a cutout on your V11 at such high speed. Hope you can recover from the fall soon. Can you upload the log in the app so we can know what cause the cutout.

Regards

Liam

@Liam if you find something can you please share the cause here? Getting my V11 any week now and would really like to know. Thank you.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Rawnei

[EUChristian]

2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

It's sad to see so many people just dismissing OP saying rider-error overlean when he is saying it wasn't.

@EUChristian since you said you rode it home it doesn't seem electronics broke or you wouldn't be able to ride it.

@Liam if you find something can you please share the cause here? Getting my V11 any week now and would really like to know. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm an experienced rider. There is no reason at 96% battery i should have an overlean situation on any wheel without cranking down on it. I was accelerating - i can not deny this, but my point is I have accelerated much more aggressively on the V11 and never had this happen. This was a particular situation. 

It should go without saying InMotion is a great company and have already reached out to me on this issue. 

I do want to say to be careful because this came out of left field I have never had an EUC cutoff like this. 

[mike_bike_kite]

3 hours ago, Unventor said:

But reading your story. I am glad I invested in a goretex mc suit with lvl 2 3D0 pads. 

I never really thought of myself as being narcissistic but, in this case, I think I'd rather put up with the potential scarring.

[Jonesq]

52 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

Thank you. I'm an experienced rider. There is no reason at 96% battery i should have an overlean situation on any wheel without cranking down on it. I was accelerating - i can not deny this, but my point is I have accelerated much more aggressively on the V11 and never had this happen. This was a particular situation. 

It should go without saying InMotion is a great company and have already reached out to me on this issue. 

I do want to say to be careful because this came out of left field I have never had an EUC cutoff like this. 

This is extremely concerning for me as I also ride around the limit of my current wheel, 18XL, and have a V11 coming soon (Ewheels batch 3b).

Please keep us updated as to how Inmotion/Ewheels handle the problem.

It seems like most people are disregarding this failure as something to be expected, but I don't see it that way. Inmotion is supposed to be the "safe" wheel. From my experience, the power delivery of the V11 seems more timid than the 18XL and I'm ok with that if it's tuned that way to prevent cutouts. However, if the wheel is cutting out at speed even WITH timid acceleration ....that sucks and it should be addressed.

[Chriull]

2 hours ago, EUChristian said:

There is no reason at 96% battery i should have an overlean situation on any wheel without cranking down on it.

That's very true, that one should not.

Unfortionately one can - especially as "cranking" is very relative.

And this new suspension wheels tend to have a weaker battery as many other actual wheels.

The 21700 cells don't really help with "this performance".

Although, afair here was written that the lift cut off speed of the v11 is 50 mph ~ 80 km/h. So there should be quite some safety margin to 52 km/h at 96% charge!

2 hours ago, EUChristian said:

I was accelerating - i can not deny this, but my point is I have accelerated much more aggressively on the V11 and never had this happen. This was a particular situation. 

Maximal possible acceleration decreases with higher speeds. So if this 80 km/h lift cut off speed at full battery are true, then to reach overlean one has 100% of max acceleration at standstill (theoreticly, as the eucs restrict current to give mosfets a chance to survive) 75% at 20 km/h, 50% at 40 km/h and if one could reach 60 km/h 25% would be possible. (and 0 acceleration at 80...)

This figures are not regarding that some of the available torque is needed to overcome air drag, so torque available is below this numbers.

So "my point is I have accelerated much more aggressively" has no meaning without knowing the speed you reached this acceleration.

[RockyTop]

I wish you a quick recovery. 
 

I don’t mean to brag but I am pretty good at over leaning near top speed.  It really doesn’t take much. If you are near the top speed of any wheel just shifting your weight or hitting a bump can finish the deal.  There is nothing like the boost of adrenaline when you find yourself unexpectedly leaning/ falling forward. A thought pops in my head, “How are you going to get out of this one?” The challenge is set. The clock is ...... going to tick. ...... 
 

I know what you are thinking,   ... The boy ain’t right!”

I know that the V11 is loved by many and I think that is great. InMotion has not yet been known as the wheel for heavy aggressive people like myself.
 

[EUChristian]

Good points made all around. Let's get some data if possible I think we all agree feelings aren't much of a help here. Does Inmotions App have datatlogging?  Can not find it. If someone can direct me how ill pull the log and post as well as send to inmotion for help. I did not have EUC world connected. 

 

Thanks for the help!

[Chaotropic]

When you perform the status check it has the option to send report. You should send it. I have no idea if consumers are able to extract data from the report. 

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, EUChristian said:

Does Inmotions App have datatlogging?  Can not find it. If someone can direct me how ill pull the log and post as well as send to inmotion for help. I did not have EUC world connected. 

Afaik chances inmotion app has no datalogging?

Euc world (android) has, darknesbot(iphone) maybe, too?

So with this data one can make current vs speed diagrams which show nicely overleans and by this limits.

1 hour ago, EUChristian said:

 

Thanks for the help!

You're welcome!

[rexdelmolvo]

Ah, I see what you meant in my thread about my cut-out last week. God damn... This is really making me think about getting my money back for the V11 and going for another 100v wheel.

[Wgm]

4 minutes ago, rexdelmolvo said:

Ah, I see what you meant in my thread about my cut-out last week. God damn... This is really making me think about getting my money back for the V11 and going for another 100v wheel.

That's what I did, changed preorder to Sherman.  Maybe even the gotway Ex for safest torque from 0 to beeps.

 

Really sorry euchristian had to go through a traumatic experience like that.  Riding on my 16x has me always thinking of these 84v wheels just giving out at the top end.

[Bill Kolk]

41 minutes ago, rexdelmolvo said:

Ah, I see what you meant in my thread about my cut-out last week. God damn... This is really making me think about getting my money back for the V11 and going for another 100v wheel.

For your information, vee had a cutout with the gotway RS at 80 km/h with just one beep. 

Does this mean that the RS is a bad wheel in general or bad if you want to cruise at 80km/h?

Every wheel has its limits, not even 126volt will save you if you drive at the limits all the time.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Bill Kolk

[rexdelmolvo]

1 minute ago, Bill Kolk said:

For your information, vee had a cutout with the gotway RS at 80 km/h with just one beep. 

Does this mean that the RS is a bad wheel in general or bad if you want to cruise at 80km/h?

Every wheel has its limits, not even 126volt will save you if you drive at the limits all the time.

If you saw my other thread, I had a cut-out on my V11 from a 1 inch jump at around 10mph or less. I have the right to be distrusting of this wheel, haha.

And 80km/h on an RS (recommended top speed is around 64km/h according to eWheels) is much different compared to a cut-out around 54km/h on the V11. I don't plan to push any wheel over the recommended top speed, but I'd like to get close to it without the fear of something like this happening. That's why I want another 100v wheel like my Nikola, not because I want to go 80km/h...

[EUChristian]

Liam and I are working out the kinks of what happened and I commend him for quickly reaching out to me. Based on what I'm reading here I'm going to draw some conclusions and one of then is high powered EUCs just don't work like I thought they did. That's on me. I know for a fact I have pushed this harder than I did on this day and maybe it is true that somehow I rocked it forward a bit and that caused it to dump me.  I just don't get that. At 96% power and 3kmh below top speed i did not realize I was riding a razor thin margin.  Thats on me.  I will use EUC World to replace and make it top at 30mph on fancier and 28 on less than 80%  

I do not think Inmotion is at fault here but I would like to hopefully provide them with a log that they could diagnose and if it is software related - fix it. In my opinion if you are close to full battery and not trying to kill yourself you should have the headroom to compensate for that. 

After the initial incredible pain I reacted perhaps too quick in saying I will not ride again. I will just baby it and sadly I do like to play on these but it is what it is. First I need to fix my baby. A few things I could use advice on. The suspension is screwed up (at different heights) i will try to get that working. The handle blew off. Can it be put back on?  Finally - i attached a pic of the frame itself under the saddle broke at the place the saddle screws into it. I'm guessing a strong concrete cement or jbweld to put back together?

Thank you all for your advice and help. 

[.....]

1 hour ago, EUChristian said:

Liam and I are working out the kinks of what happened and I commend him for quickly reaching out to me. Based on what I'm reading here I'm going to draw some conclusions and one of then is high powered EUCs just don't work like I thought they did. That's on me. I know for a fact I have pushed this harder than I did on this day and maybe it is true that somehow I rocked it forward a bit and that caused it to dump me.  I just don't get that. At 96% power and 3kmh below top speed i did not realize I was riding a razor thin margin.  Thats on me.  I will use EUC World to replace and make it top at 30mph on fancier and 28 on less than 80%  

I do not think Inmotion is at fault here but I would like to hopefully provide them with a log that they could diagnose and if it is software related - fix it. In my opinion if you are close to full battery and not trying to kill yourself you should have the headroom to compensate for that. 

After the initial incredible pain I reacted perhaps too quick in saying I will not ride again. I will just baby it and sadly I do like to play on these but it is what it is. First I need to fix my baby. A few things I could use advice on. The suspension is screwed up (at different heights) i will try to get that working. The handle blew off. Can it be put back on?  Finally - i attached a pic of the frame itself under the saddle broke at the place the saddle screws into it. I'm guessing a strong concrete cement or jbweld to put back together?

Thank you all for your advice and help. 

 

THIS right here is one of the most mature paragraphs I've read in a long time. I know, who the f**k am I and why should you even care what I think? Regardless, thank you for keeping us updated with what has/is happening. Luckily from all of these posts, I am reevaluating what I can expect and am approaching it all with a little more thought and care. I mean hell, I don't think I am anywhere near the skill of overpowering a wheel or forcing a cutoff. What I'm learning is that its either easier to do that than I thought, or there's other gremlins afoot. Either way, its a cold reminder to all of us. Best of luck in your recovery! Fwiw, I feel ya on the kneejerk reaction of 'not riding again'. I can't say that my feelings wouldnt near mirror yours, in the same situation.

Edited November 16, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[EUChristian]

2 hours ago, rexdelmolvo said:

Ah, I see what you meant in my thread about my cut-out last week. God damn... This is really making me think about getting my money back for the V11 and going for another 100v wheel.

Yes sir I feel you on this. When things you have committed vast amounts of time and resources to act up it makes you sad. 

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Chriull said:

Afaik chances inmotion app has no datalogging?

Data can be pulled from the wheel as far as I understand it. That is why Inmotion asked OP to upload diagnostic as it uploads wheel data to Inmotion engineers. 

The data is not possible to collect and review by riders. 

[EUChristian]

2 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Data can be pulled from the wheel as far as I understand it. That is why Inmotion asked OP to upload diagnostic as it uploads wheel data to Inmotion engineers. 

The data is not possible to collect and review by riders. 

I uploaded it successfully and then sent a PM with my serial number...unsure how else they can link the upload to me or my unit. Any ideas?  It simply "uploads" and then the prompt disappears. 

[EUChristian]

41 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

THIS right here is one of the most mature paragraphs I've read in a long time. I know, who the f**k am I and why should you even care what I think? Regardless, thank you for keeping us updated with what has/is happening. Luckily from all of these posts, I am reevaluating what I can expect and am approaching it all with a little more thought and care. I mean hell, I don't think I am anywhere near the skill of overpowering a wheel or forcing a cutoff. What I'm learning is that its either easier to do that than I thought, or there's other gremlins afoot. Either way, its a cold reminder to all of us. Best of luck in your recovery! Fwiw, I feel ya on the kneejerk reaction of 'not riding again'. I can't say that my feelings wouldnt near mirror yours, in the same situation.

I appreciate you man.  I love the V11 I want to stare at her like I used to. Now its like I walked in on her with her other boyfriend and she says she won't cheat again but I'm terrified she's a liar