I Broke My Thigh Bone At Around 10-15KMH (6-9MPH)

[Justin Boivin]

Reading over this a second time, there seems to be somethings that don't make sense. The OP was "going slowly and carefully", could see the lady from far away, yet needed to make a quick decisive swerve?  She jumped backwards into the OP, why was this able to intercept the OP's path if he could see her from far away and was going slow enough to give space?

Also a death and broken femur from a last minute turn/spin of the wheel? I've seen wheels 'whip around' after a rider falls off it. Is this what the OP is talking about? Still seems like a lot of force for riding slowly and carefully.

[TheMasterSword]

1 minute ago, Justin Boivin said:

Reading over this a second time, there seems to be somethings that don't make sense. The OP was "going slowly and carefully", could see the lady from far away, yet needed to make a quick decisive swerve?  She jumped backwards into the OP, why was this able to intercept the OP's path if he could see her from far away and was going slow enough to give space?

Also a death and broken femur from a last minute turn/spin of the wheel? I've seen wheels 'whip around' after a rider falls off it. Is this what the OP is talking about? Still seems like a lot of force for riding slowly and carefully.

The explanation is too contrived and detailed, if you hold it up to "occam's razor" (The simplest explanation is usually the correct one), it's a lie.

[Justin Boivin]

1 minute ago, TheMasterSword said:

The explanation is too contrived and detailed, if you hold it up to "occam's razor" (The simplest explanation is usually the correct one), it's a lie.

Yeah, that is what it seems like. Also the fact that the broken femur was in the title and they mentioned the death as like "oh, by the way she died".  I mean, I can't imagine how terrible I would feel if I got into an accident like this, and even responsible riders can't anticipate everything, so I wouldn't want to pass too much judgement based on limited info.

Regardless, the take home from this is that an EUC is not a toy, its not a skateboard, its a vehicle. We should treat it with the same caution as we would with driving a car.

[Surfling]

We'll folks @TheMasterSword @Justin Boivin let's be gentle and give the OP a chance to present his case with facts. Perhaps we will learn something or two.

and @TheMasterSwordmy mind is currently doing calisthenics w/ your mom, me and chicken bones but I will restrain myself from further damage...

[mike_bike_kite]

16 minutes ago, TheMasterSword said:

The explanation is too contrived and detailed

How many car drivers have you heard talk about an accident and say it was their fault. I can't think of any. Our natural instinct is to justify our own actions. I guess the OP is just human like the rest of us. It seems fairly obvious that he must of been going too fast, was probably carving from side to side which confused the old lady as he rode towards her and she jumped the wrong way with tragic consequences. Accidents do happen, they tend to happen more to young folk because they just don't have the experience to understand what can go wrong. The main thing is to admit to our failings (even if only privately) and try to work out what we could of done better. It's obviously far less painful to learn from other people's accidents.

[shellac]

Lots of people pointing out that OP doesn’t mention the death in the title. In journalism this is called “burying the lede”.

I think it can be a natural human instinct to want to bury the lede when something unintentionally and unspeakably horrendous comes about as a result of your own actions, something you could never imagine yourself doing, and you’re clearly still trying to come to grips with it. 

I appreciate OP sharing his story here and I don’t know that it’s helpful for us to act as a trial and jury here about who’s more at fault, with our limited information. What is useful is helping OP come to grips with this emotionally, and perhaps learning a lesson and trying to prevent all of us from having future accidents. 

[Rehab1]

3 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

The ....old woman is at fault here.

I see you changed your post and removed ‘Dumb’ old women. I feel much better. 

I wish the forum would bring back the red  negative sign. You would have my vote!

[Toshio Uemura]

4 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

it happened on a ROAD, and roads are for vehicles, not pedestrians. It is the bloody pedestrian's duty to watch out for himself and not be a nuisance and a danger to traffic.

This kind of attitude (I call it Road Darwinism!) is one reason for accidents. In my opinion, the driver (rider) of the more powerful, potentially more dangerous vehicle, always has more responsibility in traffic. Just blaming old people or kids or dogs or (quote) “bloody pedestrians” is no excuse for a careless behavior in traffic. I believe, if you hurt a handicapped or drunk person you shall be held responsible even under German laws. So why should it be different on an EUC! Just go the extra mile and stop ✋ if you see the slightest chance that you could hurt someone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HPV73v7Ub8

Edited November 16, 2020 by Toshio Uemura

[mrelwood]

 

20 hours ago, amelanso said:

the onus is also on the moving vehicle to be pro-active/defensive to anticipate or allow for enough margin to avoid a collision...

To an extent, of course. But going only by that rule, car drivers should always be prepared for anyone to suddenly run to the road. And trains should only go slow enough that suicidal people would have no purpose jumping in front of them. It simply doesn’t work, traffic needs (and has) rules for all parties.

20 hours ago, amelanso said:

The second you see a pedestrian crossing in your projected path you have to immediately adjust so that no matter what that pedestrian does, you will not hit them at speed

This might boil down to the different traffic laws and accommodations regarding pedestrians and bicycles in different countries. Where I live, EUCs are allowed to ride at 15km/h on pedestrian only walkways otherwise we pass as bicyclists (25km/h). But there are a lot of mixed pathways for bicycles and pedestrians, either separated by heading or the vehicle of movement. While bicyclists are generally good at following the traffic signs and rules, about every other pedestrian is not. Some of them walk on the right, some on the left. Some on the cycleway, some on the painted middle separator line. And some even with a dog leash tight across the whole pathway.

I think the problem is that pedestrians do not realize that despite only walking, they are taking part in actual traffic that includes various vehicles of various speeds. It’s much easier to judge the traffic around you if everyone else is slower than you. 

20 hours ago, amelanso said:

what if the walker is talking about some sports event and jumps to the side to demo something they saw etc right into my path?

This is exactly what I keep thinking whenever I pass a pedestrian, not because of whose fault a collision would be, but because I aim to avoid any collisions altogether.

But it still didn’t help me avoid a collision with an old lady three years ago. As she heard me coming, she decided to quickly run to the other side of the gravel road to “take pictures of blueberries”. She didn’t look back, and thought that I was further away than I was, based on how my tire sounded on the gravel. I was passing her as wide as possible, but it wasn’t more than maybe 2m (6ft). I wasn’t going fast at all, maybe at jogging speed. And even going at walking speed wouldn’t have avoided the collision if the timing had been just right. She slowly fell down on the soft grass, but luckily did not hurt herself.

Was the crash my fault? What should I have done differently? I can’t think of anything that would’ve definitely avoided the crash, other than not pass her at all.

20 hours ago, amelanso said:

I am the one who has the potential to really hurt someone - I am the missile carrying all the deadly inertia (in a car, on a bike, on a pev,etc)!

 

20 hours ago, amelanso said:

We cannot account for every bizarre situation imaginable

And those exactly are why traffic has rules for cars, cyclists and pedestrians alike.

20 hours ago, amelanso said:

but this is a very predictable and common scenario - pedestrian crossing street.

Pedestrian crossing a street didn’t cause the danger or the outcome. Pedestrian jumping backwards during the act of crossing the street did.

20 hours ago, amelanso said:

because insufficient safety margin was used.

While I always aim to be prepared for absolutely anything a pedestrian could do, even to start running to a random direction, it is often simply not possible to give enough safety margin for absolutely everything a human physique is able to do. And it definitely shouldn’t be necessary in traffic, with cars nor with bicycles and EUCs.

20 hours ago, amelanso said:

But the painful truth is that this was a very avoidable outcome.

I don’t think we can judge that based on a single forum post by a shocked participant in the crash himself.

[mrelwood]

 

52 minutes ago, null said:

She was old and hesitant, that should have been enough to warn about being extra careful.

I agree. It does seem though that the op’s concentration was tightly focused on the old lady, just like it should’ve been. He also did write that he did slow down from what was a slow speed compared to his very reasonable average speed. But the exact nature of events is far from well known, even to the participant himself.

52 minutes ago, null said:

To me passing a scared and fragile person at 15km/h (or what do we know) at an "old ladies backward jump" distance seem a lot like "zapping by"..

That is true. Although it sounded like trying to pass her from behind was a last moment attempt to salvage the situation. So it was basically the spare space reserved exactly for an event like this.

Having ridden as much as I have, and most of it on combined pedestrian/cycleways, I have seen all kinds of reactions to the EUC. It’s clear that most pedestrians still have no clue how fast we can go, how fast we can stop, how agile we are, and how much control we have over the vehicle. That is why some people jump to the woods, some freeze, and one kid even started screaming in terror. Once they become more familiar with us, they will surely treat us like the cyclists we fundamentally are.

To be clear, I don’t mean to blame the old lady. But I don’t want anyone to think that they can judge the situation enough to put blame on the rider either. Having the situation sound like being caused by behavior you might disapprove, doesn’t make it the same. We simply can not judge one way or the other. What we can do is remember that a horrible incident like this can happen any time we ride.

[Nostris]

I can imagine that a person on an euc, moving faster than walking pace, without appearing to walk, could indeed appear very troubling and confusing to someone of 90 years old and might well cause them to act unpredictably. Before starting with the wheel, I used to rollerblade..still do!  The same thing applies when approaching pedestrians..slow down and use caution. The don’t hear you coming, and can be shocked by your sudden arrival. They may well be distracted, and not be on the lookout for bikes, eus’s or old bustards on rollerblades. Old people can be confused, children very inattentive and unpredictable, young people occupied in their own stuff..they are all potentially able to ruin your day, and you, theirs. It is for the  person who is riding, on bike,eus or blades to avoid any incident.. Give them all a very wide berth, slow down, if necessary stop, get off and walk.  And never make assumptions as to what someone else may or may not be about to do. If in doubt, stop and get off.  

[Toshio Uemura]

56 minutes ago, null said:

As to why she did it: old people are slow to think and react. She saw a vehicle coming towards her seemingly without slowing down, she got scared and took a step back to let it pass in front of her.

This explanation makes a lot of sense to me. If you step into the road you leave the safety of the walkway behind you and if something comes toward you however slow speed, something that surprises you, you try to get out of the Road back to the walkway where you felt safe in the first place. That is even more true for older people, who don’t drive vehicles anymore and therefore can’t judge speed and direction of movements that well.

[nalds]

20 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

@nalds Your links don't work - only you can access them since you're logged into your Dropbox.
Maybe attach the file directly? The "choose files..." option at the bottom of reply box.

I couldnt find the "Choose Files". There were only, "Insert image from URL".

However this is the link to the x-ray scan file, I tested it. You can see the files without needing to login to dropbox.

This is the link to the plate & screws, CAUTION it's gory.

[nalds]

Some people asked why I posted this without the title explaining about the worse situation. Honestly, it's very difficult for me to write about this and what happened. However I know that some people might benefit from my experience. 

If only 1 or 2 people would benefit from my story, than it's better than nothing. Why? Because I experience how nerve wrecking this experience is for my life. Especially, when most of what I could do now is sit down. I thought that if my story could potentially save people from injuries or worse, life; then my story has served its purpose.  

Some people also asked, that I've seen the old lady from afar. Why not swerve from the distance?

Because based on the progress of her crossing, I knew that she'd cross the street successfully if she just kept on walking. However she was hesitating at the last few seconds. The road wasn't that big, only 2 lanes. There were cars & motorcycles passing on the right side of the street. The old lady was standing in the middle of the left lane. When I finally swerved to the right at the last second, I was also praying that no car would hit me from the back for suddenly going to the right. 

Why I didn't swerve to the left, because going to the left (the road side) was her destination. It would have been much easier for her going forward rather than going backward. 

I humbly admitted that it was a very fatal mistake that I did...

[Bongaloid]

Sorry to hear about this extremely unfortunate incident.

May she rest in peace and I hope you have a swift recovery.

 

I broke my femur playing hockey many years ago and I still remember the excruciating pain of my bone ripping into my muscles from the slightest movements.

I can't even begin to imagine waiting 12 hours to be dealt with. I'm surprised you didn't really go into much detail about that. Your fracture must be different from mine, which was a clean break all the way through, not a hairline fracture or anything like that. Nonetheless, I'm sure you won't be forgetting the mental and physical pain endured that day. I'm not sure what kind of health insurance you have in Singapore but the medical bills here in the US were no joke.

Much love to you and your family and the family of the lady involved.

Breaking my femur was by the far the most painful experience of my life but I'd say it was also the most humbling one as well. I'm sure you'll be growing quite a bit as well.

[Surfling]

5 minutes ago, Bongaloid said:

6 minutes ago, Bongaloid said:

......"I broke my femur playing hockey many years ago ......... Your fracture must be different from mine, which was a clean break all the way through, not a hairline fracture or anything like that. Nonetheless, I'm sure you won't be forgetting the mental and physical pain endured that day..."

 

Yes it takes a severe blow to cleanly fracture a femur. Accident happened at jogging pace. X-ray shows fracture at high, stronger area and@nalds apparently has good bone density. This is what I find incredible and unbelievable. I'm a post-op certified.

[mhpr262]

Who can really say what happened, with two persons with flailing arms and legs, some speed, a pretty heavy vehicle and maybe a curbstone involved there may have been the oddest combination of twisting/leveraging action going on to result in that outcome.

[Bongaloid]

55 minutes ago, Surfling said:

Yes it takes a severe blow to cleanly fracture a femur. Accident happened at jogging pace. X-ray shows fracture at high, stronger area and@nalds apparently has good bone density. This is what I find incredible and unbelievable. I'm a post-op certified.

Yeah, I'd say breaking a femur even playing hockey is pretty rare. It was a dirty play of course. I was racing someone to an iced puck and was gonna go around the net but the loser pushed me from behind causing me to fall and hit the boards at full speed.

[FinRider]

6 hours ago, Surfling said:

Yes it takes a severe blow to cleanly fracture a femur. Accident happened at jogging pace. X-ray shows fracture at high, stronger area and@nalds apparently has good bone density. This is what I find incredible and unbelievable. I'm a post-op certified.

Its a sad world we live in when in a discussion like this we have to focus on the credibility of a story by trying to judge if it is possible to break your femur at slow speed accidents. Lets not forget that we are dealing with a 40 lbs vehicle travelling at speed here, add in the riders weight and you have a pretty massive inertial force during an evasive movement. 
 

The moral of the ”story” should also not be to try to find who is at fault or whom to blame. I commend the courage of the OP to share his tragic experience. He will have to live with both tje physical and emotional scars for the rest of his life.
 

Shit like this happens every day with other vehicles (bicycles, motorcycles, cars, etc). The OP happened to be on an EUC.

I guess my point is that we should all reflect over what can happen and how precious life is. Accidents happenand will contiinue to happen but we can all keep this sad story in mind and adjust our behaviour to minimize the risk of this happening to us.

[nalds]

15 hours ago, Bongaloid said:

Sorry to hear about this extremely unfortunate incident.

May she rest in peace and I hope you have a swift recovery.

 

I broke my femur playing hockey many years ago and I still remember the excruciating pain of my bone ripping into my muscles from the slightest movements.

I can't even begin to imagine waiting 12 hours to be dealt with. I'm surprised you didn't really go into much detail about that. Your fracture must be different from mine, which was a clean break all the way through, not a hairline fracture or anything like that. Nonetheless, I'm sure you won't be forgetting the mental and physical pain endured that day. I'm not sure what kind of health insurance you have in Singapore but the medical bills here in the US were no joke.

Much love to you and your family and the family of the lady involved.

Breaking my femur was by the far the most painful experience of my life but I'd say it was also the most humbling one as well. I'm sure you'll be growing quite a bit as well.

Thank you for your sympathy and prayers.

You were right, the pain was excruciating, especially since the broken bone was sharp, it punctured into the muscles. "There were muscles in the bone marrow, I had to clean it", the surgeon explained. Every movement was very painful when the accident happened.

The hardest part was the journey to the hospital when they lifted me up and I have to hold my own leg on the journey. Once I was on the stretcher and drugs were administered, the pain became manageable. Catether was installed at around 7PM (9 hours after the accident), after I asked for it repeatedly. 

I'm thankful that my insurance covered not only the operation bill, but also the post op visitation and physiotherapy.

 

I agree it's very humbling experience. So many reflections came from the accident. I sincerely pray that no one would have to go through what I experienced.

[Tryptych]

24 minutes ago, nalds said:

I'm thankful that my insurance covered not only the operation bill, but also the post op visitation and physiotherapy.

You've been through a very traumatic event and I hope you don't let this haunt you for the rest of your life. Let your mind heal, as well as your body. Maybe consider talking with a therapist/psychiatrist as part of your recovery.

ps: thanks for posting here, by telling us your story you may have saved someone else's life

Edited November 17, 2020 by Tryptych

[Surfling]

16 hours ago, FinRider said:

......Its a sad world we live in when in a discussion like this we have to focus on the credibility of a story......

Focusing on post credibility either reinforces a story or filters out the trolls. Benefits all and maintains integrity on the forum.

What's more sad, my dude, is the thought of someone losing a wife, mother, aunt, etc from what seems like a riders misjudgement and the consequences.

Now @nalds, given your recollection of this tragedy, perhaps you can provide more info on the incident to help skeptics like me shed more light on this. Somethings I failed ask early on.

Where in Indonesia?

What are the approximate ages of the party involved?

PS: Friends raves about surfing Padang and it's in my list.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Surfling

[Surfling]

22 hours ago, Bongaloid said:

Yeah, I'd say breaking a femur even playing hockey is pretty rare. It was a dirty play of course. I was racing someone to an iced puck and was gonna go around the net but the loser pushed me from behind causing me to fall and hit the boards at full speed.

I feel you, bro. I played roller hockey some years back until there's more boxing matches than playing the puck! I just hit the heavy bag nowadays.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Surfling

[GothamMike]

I'm not a Lawyer, and not Indonesian. I strongly recommend you take your post down. There is enough evidence to identify you, and your behavior.

Moderators: please consider deleting this post.

[LanghamP]

I think in most states and even most countries, a pedestrian within a crosswalk must first clear the crosswalk before the driver can proceed. It's not just a yield; it's a stop and wait.

But all these laws and regulations are kinda silly because they try to distribute blame when the situation is obvious; don't ride/drive your vehicle in such a way that you kill other people. Drive with caution so you don't make mistakes, and at a speed that should you make a mistake the result usually isn't deadly.

The OP didn't wait for the pedestrian to clear the crosswalk so he killed her. Happens all the time with drivers, and most drivers aren't even charged with a crime.