Batteries in paralell

[Oily]

Evening all,

So having now been EUC'ing for nearly a month, I'm now doing a hybrid commute of 4 miles (each way) per day of some walking & some EUC'ing.

I've only got a 132 battery, and could happily up my commute to about 7 miles, but 4 is about my upper limit (I'm about 93kgs).

I've managed to source another 132 battery which is the same make & spec, so am planning on squeezing it in/on my EUC to double my range (or reading some posts, possibly more than double ?).

I work in IT, and although very happy playing with electrics, I need some reassurance!  Looking around it looks like I can literally remove some insulation from the existing battery wires & just splice in the same terminal from the new battery (once they are both either full charged or discharged). Charge time will be doubled, volts the same, but AMPS doubled....

If this works, my next mission is to hit Alibaba after Christmas & probably go down the 500W motor & 30kmh board route with a 340 battery & hope for 10+ miles..... 

Olly

[Cranium]

If you can fit the battery in your EU, why not simplify the process and just create a Y-connector for the batteries?

http://www.amazon.com/Foxnovo-Parallel-Connector-Extension-Splitter/dp/B00MNBGIVY/ref=pd_sim_21_4?ie=UTF8&dpID=414T-2zRUIL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=0N6M6CPF30E8N54FPZMA

You just need to make sure you have the right connectors.  This way you don't have to modify your existing batteries at all and you could always remove one of the batteries if you choose in the future.

[castShadow]

Wow, nice Y cable!  Let me know if this works.  I think it will - though the batteries are supposed to be balanced.  The other option is swapping the batteries - you could rig the cable out of the shell and from outside, disconnect the internal battery and connect the external battery for round 2!

The safety issue is if the external battery gets damaged a minor chance of "failure."

the wiring could be adding one extension cable - poke out of the shell where the original cable plugs into the extension cable - when swapping, unplug this extension and plug battery #2 into the original cable.  This is Reaver style modification.  You would recharge each battery the same way.

[Oily]

Well I've bought a connector, and having had the EUC in pieces last night, I'm hoping I can get my 2nd one inside.....

Will report back once battery & connector arrive !

[Gimlet]

10 minutes ago, Oily said:

Well I've bought a connector, and having had the EUC in pieces last night, I'm hoping I can get my 2nd one inside.....

Will report back once battery & connector arrive !

I think you'll find it relatively easy to fit the second battery on the oposite side to the original battery. Your problem will be finding space for the control board that normally occupies that space.

You need to keep some space around the board for cooling so you can't just squash it in next to the battery even if there's room.

Both the 680Wh version of the Gotway mcmv2s and the KingSong 800w have got over this problem by mounting a horizontal board across the top of the euc but even if you have space you can't just mount a vertical control board horizontally as the gyros won't work.

[Oily]

I'm hoping to get the 2nd battery across the top of the EUC, but am not going to know 100% if it will fit until it arrives & I completely disassemble the EUC.

Don't really want to move the board until I go down the 30kmh & 500W motor route - at which point I might try & get a horizontal board.

And if I'm getting a horizontal board, I could then still retain a 132 battery to go with my 340....

[Oily]

Ok, battery has actually arrived early !

Never noticed in pics before there are 4 wires for the battery - negative & positive, that's easy, but what are the 2 smaller core wires ? I presume these are for the board on the back of the pack - do I just splice these into the main board where the first battery is connected ?

I've also confirmed the main board that I'm looking to install comes in vertical & horizontal setups...

[Cranium]

30 minutes ago, Oily said:

what are the 2 smaller core wires

I can't speak for your board but on the Ninebot, these go to the charging port and would need to be put in parallel as well.

[Jez_Fila]

40 minutes ago, Oily said:

Ok, battery has actually arrived early !

Never noticed in pics before there are 4 wires for the battery - negative & positive, that's easy, but what are the 2 smaller core wires ? I presume these are for the board on the back of the pack - do I just splice these into the main board where the first battery is connected ?

I've also confirmed the main board that I'm looking to install comes in vertical & horizontal setups...

Large wires are for discharge to the motor, and the thinner ones go to the charger. See the other battery thread in this forum. We are talking about a similar setup.

 

[Oily]

Awesome thanks guys - I'd assumed power in and our used the same cable! Will look at the other thread.

[zlymex]

Photo below are two internal battery packs for Gotway MSuper2. These packs were bought off-shell and I made those new "Y" shape connections ready to plug in, expanding to 850Wh from 680Wh.

[Colestien]

I'm sorry if this has been asked before...but.  I understand serial and parallel.  In serial the voltage doubles.  In parallel the voltage stays the same and the Amperage doubles.   These batteries have Power cables, and charging wires. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the charging wires are in parallel this would mean you will have to give it twice the amperage to charge at the same speed??? 

[Cranium]

@Colestien, you are correct.  The amps would be split between the two batteries.  So if they are the same capacity, the charging time would be double using the same charging rate.  In this case though, the second battery is smaller so wouldn't double the charging time.

If the charge rate of the 680Wh battery is 2A, it would take just over 5 hours to charge.  The math is as follows:
Watts = Volts * Amps (W=VA) <-- I do this so you can see that the units work out.
680VAh/2A/67.2V = 5.02 hours

And for both batteries:
850VAh/2A/67.2V = 6.3 hours 

 

[Colestien]

Thanks @Cranium The reason I brought that up is....(besides I'm thinking about doing it).  Is there a minimal Amp needed to charge the battery?  If I have a 2A charger, and it takes (I don't know) 1.2 Amp to achieve a charging state.  The 2 amp charger couldn't charge the 2 batteries. It would be point 4 amp short.  So...as I said I don't know.  Is it the higher voltage that makes it happen or the Amp?  

[Cranium]

The analogy that I learned is the Voltage is like the pressure in a pipe.  The Current (amps) is the flow of water through a pipe.  If you increase the pressure, there will be more water flowing.  So if you can fill a gallon bucket of water in a minute and you put a Y in the pipe and have two one gallon buckets, it takes two minutes to fill both.

As long as there is flow (current), it doesn't matter how little there is.  You just have to keep providing it until the battery voltage reaches 4.2V/cell.

For example, you could charge your battery at 0.1A if you wanted.  It would just be a trickle and take a long time but it would work.

680VAh / 0.1A / 67.2V = 101 hours 

[Colestien]

AKA trickle charge.  Thanks got it.  I also use plumbing to visualize a circuit.  It works  

[Oily]

I currently have my EUC in it's component pieces looking at where/how to mount my 2nd battery without moving my main board - there might just be room to get it horizontal under the handle with a bit of modifying to the plastic housing....

Can a vertical main board me moved to a horizontal board with the right reconfiguring, or are the gyros mounted wrong for that ?  (I can't actually work out where the gyros are on the board - presume they are the large looking resistors !???)

[Restless]

@Oily u cant mount a board in a different way, at least not normally.
 

The Gyro should be just a pretty small IC

[Oily]

@Restless that's what I though, but before I went a did some major surgery, thought I'd check !

Thanks !

[zlymex]

On 2015/12/12 at 6:03 AM, Oily said:

Can a vertical main board me moved to a horizontal board with the right reconfiguring, or are the gyros mounted wrong for that ?  (I can't actually work out where the gyros are on the board - presume they are the large looking resistors !???)

Theoretically yes. One way(by the manufacturer) is to modify the firmware. The other way(by hobbyist) is to modify the hardware: de-solder the gyro IC and re-mount/re-solder it vertically. The gyro IC is usually 24-pin MPU-6050

[Yashaya Yasharahla]

On 12/10/2015 at 1:27 PM, zlymex said:

Photo below are two internal battery packs for Gotway MSuper2. These packs were bought off-shell and I made those new "Y" shape connections ready to plug in, expanding to 850Wh from 680Wh.

Could you please show how to connect these two new batteries to your existing 680Wh batteries with a Y-connector? I understand how to connect the yellow ending plugs, but my confusion arises as to how to connect the smaller black ending plugs to the existing 680Wh batteries' smaller wires. I am thanking you in advance^^ I am asking because I am interested in configuring my own batteries for more juice  

[zlymex]

5 minutes ago, Yashaya Yasharahla said:

Could you please show how to connect these two new batteries to your existing 680Wh batteries with a Y-connector? I understand how to connect the yellow ending plugs, but my confusion arises as to how to connect the smaller black ending plugs to the existing 680Wh batteries' smaller wires. I am thanking you in advance^^ I am asking because I am interested in configuring my own batteries for more juice  

The smaller black plugs are for charge wires that also need paralleled with similar construction as the yellow ones. Just un-plug the original one and insert the new one in.

[Yashaya Yasharahla]

2 minutes ago, zlymex said:

The smaller black plugs are for charge wires that also need paralleled with similar construction as the yellow ones. Just un-plug the original one and insert the new one in.

So, the yellow plugs get a Y-connector for a parallel connection, and the smaller wires with the black plugs get a Y-connector, too? 

[zlymex]

3 minutes ago, Yashaya Yasharahla said:

So, the yellow plugs get a Y-connector for a parallel connection, and the smaller wires with the black plugs get a Y-connector, too? 

Yes. Both charge and discharge should be paralleled.

[Yashaya Yasharahla]

1 minute ago, Yashaya Yasharahla said:

So, the yellow plugs get a Y-connector for a parallel connection, and the smaller wires with the black plugs get a Y-connector, too? 

http://www.jd-mania.com/shop/item.php?it_id=1444375088

 

If you look at the link above, my plan is to buy two of those batteries and connect them to my existing batteries (640 Wh [340*2] ). However, the plugs in the link are clear/white instead of black. Does it matter? Do the smaller plugs need a Y-connector? 

1 minute ago, zlymex said:

Yes. Both charge and discharge should be paralleled.

I really appreciate your help. This makes connecting everything so much simpler. I wish there was a YouTube video on how to do these things step by step. I am a newbie and I would rather I damage the wheel's batteries than someone or a complete stranger do so. I believe I can do this. The BMS boards are already contained in the battery and all, so I don't need to worry about too much of the technical stuff. These new batteries have the same specs as my existing batteries and that's why I want to connect them to my Kingsong 18in  Thanks a lot, Zlymex!