dmethvin Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Since December I've had a 14-inch no-name wheel similar to http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Intelligent-self-balancing-electric-unicycle-mini-car-rover-wheel-thinking/32315250619.html and have gotten pretty good at it. Now I'm ready to get another wheel and I am looking for higher speed and better ability to deal with bumps. (We have a lot of uneven sidewalks around here!) I still want something I can tuck under my arm to carry into stores and the like, so it seems like the biggest I should go is 16 inches. The two 16-inch that seem best to me are the Ninebot One and the Firewheel. Looking around the forum, there seem to be some bad things said about both, but it looks like vee has had some pretty good experiences with the Firewheel. Any recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Extreme Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I have no experience as one of 16 "tire. So I can not recommend the experience But Firewheel's design makes it agile and comfortable to use. It is also durable. So you want a higher rate of speed than 15kmh. As I recall, faster, at least Ninebot One. Its top speed is about the same as the Firewheel. And design can be good. I have never seen it, but the pictures, it is fine. I have a Segway type Ninebot9 and at least it is very nicely done and a high-quality feel. There are not many 16 "size with a top speed would be more than 15kmh. Of course on Rockwheel. It is fast. It seems to be also resistant. The design is not very good for the feet. But it does not matter if the tea at low speed fast movements here and there. Rock Wheel a lot of noise. The noise is really loud But at least other road users will give way when they hear you coming: D Solowheel is definitely high quality. But in all a top speed of just 15kmh. Now there will be no other mind. Surely someone else to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuts Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 You might want to take a look at the newer ranges of IPS 16" wheels. All have rated engine of 1000w and above and go at 20kph. Quite reasonable priced too from anything between US$500 to US$850 depending on battery and how new it is. They don't look as fancy or are over speedy but they also don't break the bank either. http://en.iamips.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 I've seen the IPS 131 (also known as the F400?) but really like the design of the Firewheel or Ninebot as far as the looks and padding comfort goes. It's hard to find a good seller for the Firewheel, which makes me nervous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Extreme Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I can recommend this location for the purchase Firewheel. You put your email and you will get a Paypal address to which to pay. I have bought here, and works. http://en.fire-wheel.com/order/&productId=29.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planetpapi Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I'm also a noob with TgF3, but for my future reference, which of the 2 has NO pedal tilt back feature at certain speeds? Firewheel or IPS 131? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 vee, I don't see a button to submit an order on that page? I can select model, color, and quantity but no submit button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuts Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I'm also a noob with TgF3, but for my future reference, which of the 2 has NO pedal tilt back feature at certain speeds? Firewheel or IPS 131? Thanks. Don't know about the Firewheel but my T260 (Think its the same as the 122) max speed is 20kph. Will start to tilt you at around 17kph. If you continue to lean and accelerate it will only give a warning beep as you hit top speed. Not the same model but maybe the setup is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Extreme Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Send e-mail .. Jessie Shang He is very friendly and will respond quickly. wanchanglighting@gmail.com Firewheel starts to beep at 19 kph. It's does not matter. Then a female voice says "Take care!" Then it is necessary to drop the speed. If you accelerate very quickly to maximum speed. It may be that the woman does not have time to warn before power-down. Rock Wheel is to my knowledge the only 16 "will not be extinguished rapid acceleration, even when the battery is running low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobby16 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I use the Firewheel F260 to go to work. Here is precisely the sequence of speed warnings: - Above 18 km/h, a loud "buz buz buz buz buz" every 2 to 3 seconds. - Above 25 km/h, a female voice saying something like "??? speeding" (I can't understand the begining), it's a nearly inaudible whisper, so quite useless - Above 28 km/h, a very rapid acceleration to incline the pedal (it's definitively good evidence of a powerfull motor since it's would not be able of such acceleration at so high speeds without ample power reserves). If you don't master your wheel, it's can be dangerous (the same thing happens on Airwheels, but at less than half the FW's speed !). So then again, FW has implemented a not very clever, and even dangerous feature. - If you keep riding above 28 km/h (quite difficult if the road is bad), you'll hear "take care, take care". I'm not quite sure the FW "power-downs" if you maintain the highest speeds. What happens is because of high currents, the voltage drops and the BMS cuts the power as a under-voltage protection event, something that should never, never, nerver have been implemented on a e-wheel. As an aside, many wheels have this BMS problem, especially when it's cold and I have made a tutorial to shunt the undervoltage protection of the BMS (in French for the moment, sorry). It's has been successfully implemented on TG, Airwheel, Firewheel, Gotway, if you want a more secure wheel, it's something that MUST be done : http://trottinetteselectriques.heberg-forum.fr/ftopic870_solution-probleme-bms.html Getting back to the FW to reply to PlanetPapi, there is (nearly) no pedal tiltback to warn the user even if you are at constant 25km/h speed ! So the FW is not for the faint-hearted or security-minded people. And contrary to Ninebot One or Gotway, its electronics is not at all insulated, you have to do it yourself ! But if you want to ride securely at high speeds, the FW rocks, vee73 would definitely agree with me. To give some numbers, I ride mostly at 25 km/h and have about 18km/h mean speed on the home & work trip (little town, with many intersections and about 6 having traffic lights, all speeds measured at better than 0,1% accuracy by a Sunding bike computer). Compared to my first X3 clone, I halve my commuting times. So to me, the FW is the best 16" wheel... as long as it's about speed (provided you had shunted the BMS to prevent unwanted power-downs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Extreme Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Yes Firewheel doing just that. I just have not got it any more reliable to try, because it has studded tires, and I use it only terrain. Elsewhere, no more snow, and I do not want to wear expensive pins. Off-road speeds can not be measured. But this change have linked to the safety of sounds like that, I have to do it on my Firewheel. I looked through the pages quickly through. I found a fire wheel pictures. But I examined the site in more detail when it is time for more. This change would be important to do because, terrain problem is bigger than the flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 Thank you vee73 and hobby16! I agree it seems like the cutout at high speeds should be bypassed, I will look at doing that when I get my new wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
^tom^ Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 How about a second Firewheel review? I really would aprreacite it. Looks like it is not the same as Austin have/had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobby16 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 How about a second Firewheel review? I really would aprreacite it. Looks like it is not the same as Austin have/had. Let's say that Austin has an axe to grind and his tainted review is to be taken with a big grain of salt. But since vee73 has already written many posts on the Firewheel, I feel maybe it's not fairplay to add still a review. There are 2 or 3 French reviews in the above forum, there many pictures, try google-translate French->English, it's not bad (link : http://trottinetteselectriques.heberg-forum.fr/forum44_fire-wheel.html ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
^tom^ Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Let's say that Austin has an axe to grind and his tainted review is to be taken with a big grain of salt. But since vee73 has already written many posts on the Firewheel, I feel maybe it's not fairplay to add still a review. There are 2 or 3 French reviews in the above forum, there many pictures, try google-translate French->English, it's not bad (link : http://trottinetteselectriques.heberg-forum.fr/forum44_fire-wheel.html ) Thank you for the URL of the french forum. Why do you not like more then one review of a product? If I am looking as example for a car, I am looking for more then one review, special if the exists one maybe from a fake product (or a older model). Reviews all the time from the point of the writer and can and will be different from a another person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobby16 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Thank you vee73 and hobby16! I agree it seems like the cutout at high speeds should be bypassed, I will look at doing that when I get my new wheel. The BMS cutout doesn't occur only at high speeds but also at low battery or when it's cold. It happens on most wheels (AFAIK, big brands like Solowheel, Ninebot, Inmotion are not affected). What happens is the cloners haven't thought out this problem and have used standard BMS on monowheels, I see no other explanation to this blunder. A low voltage protection cutout may be necessary for an off-the-shelf BMS and inocuous on a bike, but it's unecessary (the motherboard can trigger all the warnings) and utterly dangerous on an actively balanced wheel where power mut NOT, at any event, never, be cut. It's so stupid to have the low voltage cutout feature on a monowheel's BMS it defies logic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobby16 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Why do you not like more then one review of a product? It's not the case ! I'm new to the forum, I feel I would mess with oldtimers writing a review, that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Thank you vee73 and hobby16! I agree it seems like the cutout at high speeds should be bypassed, I will look at doing that when I get my new wheel. I don't know how you intend to bypass the high speed cut out. The only way I can think of is to limit the speed some how. Wheels that cut out at high speed only do so because they are asked to give more than the maximum output they are capable of. Bypassing the cut out at maximum speed without either increasing the power available or limiting the speed would involve Bypassing the laws of physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 I think what hobby16 is saying is that the battery management system on these standard controllers try to protect the battery from over-current conditions by shutting power off completely. That is incredibly dangerous on a self-balancing unicycle. This mod bypasses that behavior. It doesn't get any more speed out of the system, it just makes operating at a speed or climb angle close to the maximum power less dangerous. The motor will still slow down if you ride it harder than the power it can deliver, and still might throw you off. At least it won't cut out completely, which is guaranteed to cause an accident. I would guess that this mod might make the battery pack fail sooner due to the additional stresses on it, if you were running right at the top edge all the time. But I would rather break the battery than break my arm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobby16 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I think what hobby16 is saying is that the battery management system on these standard controllers try to protect the battery from over-current conditions by shutting power off completely. Indeed dmethvin, it's only the BMS which cuts the power off without warning. The "wheel cuts off if too much current or too much speed" is kind of an urban legend which lives by itself, even if nobody can really substantiate it. When you think about it, it's crazy! The guy who has implemented it, if he ever has existed, should be fired (by a squad). I would guess that this mod might make the battery pack fail sooner due to the additional stresses on it, if you were running right at the top edge all the time. But I would rather break the battery than break my arm! In fact no. On the X3 for example, the motherboard stops the wheel when the battery is at about 57V. For a 16S, it's 3.55V per LiIon cell, a quite conservative low-voltage threshold. In an ideal wolrd, the BMS should cut off the power at < 57V (which is useless btw, since it's redundant) but when it's cold or when there is a huge acceleration, it may cut before the motherboard, a sure recipe for accident (some quite serious according to testimonies on the French forum). The wheel is not secured as long as the BMS's cutout feature has not been desactivated by a shunt. It's an insane and useless feature that should never have been implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StridAst Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Correct me if I am wrong, but the more power you draw, the higher the amperage, considering the voltage from the battery doesn't increase. So wouldn't too much power draw on the battery pack greatly increase the chances of frying the board? Let alone extra heat from the extra current draw could lead to thermal runaway in lithium ion batteries.... The only lithium batteries I have ever seen fail were unprotected cells in a high power portable laser that was really drawing too much current for the batteries. Ending result was the destruction of a $200 laser. Removing the battery protection probably leaves you open to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobby16 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Correct me if I am wrong, but the more power you draw, the higher the amperage, considering the voltage from the battery doesn't increase. So wouldn't too much power draw on the battery pack greatly increase the chances of frying the board? Let alone extra heat from the extra current draw could lead to thermal runaway in lithium ion batteries.... The only lithium batteries I have ever seen fail were unprotected cells in a high power portable laser that was really drawing too much current for the batteries. Ending result was the destruction of a $200 laser. Removing the battery protection probably leaves you open to this @StridAst, The controller monitors current and voltage and can output variable powers by PWM signals. These parameters are controlled at every phase commutation, there is no reason to expect the only way to limit power is by a total cutoff! You are comparing a on/off laser without current protection to a high end motor controller for a motor running from stalled, to fast forward to fast reverse states, there is definitevely no comparison. It's not as if you have an old motor with just a on/off switch without data feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StridAst Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Fair enough. I don't know much about these battery packs controllers I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Vu Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I question I have for vee73 and hobby16 with the firewheel....... how does the low casing handle when you do tight turns? Does the case ever scrap the ground for you guys? I want to pull the trigger for the firewheel but that low case is almost a dealbreaker for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 If the case is that unacceptable you could always trim it back neatly. It's not as if the cases are structural, they're only there to hold the batteries, control board and protect your legs. Obviously a little common sense is needed and enough of the fixing screws etc. need to be retained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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