IRON KOREA New Wheel Test

[RockyTop]

Keep the 19.5” tire size. Please. 
I am looking for a 18+ tire 1600wh + and tested quality from Korea.
If I could design the wheel myself I would start with an aluminum frame and attach everything to it. Think dirt bike. 
Mostly, do what you do best. Build something worth having. 

[Unventor]

100% weather proof. Preferably ip68. So you can rinse it down as you do rinsing down a car. Not nessary high pressure water jet. 

Great braking capability. 

Easy tire service (swapping and pressure cjeck/filling) 

Season tire options (summer/winter/off-road). 

New battery technology for faster charge and discharge (spike safety) options and less weight/higher power density. 

 

[Scottie888]

While we're at this bucket list thangy, @Young il KIM please try to keep the weight <70lbs (<60lbs would be phenomenal). Topend of 45mph with a safe cruising spd of 35mph down to 25% battery would be icing on the cake.

All this ~usd$2k with SKorean QC would have me (& I imagine a lot if not most of our community) laying down deposit/s for this beast. 

 

[meepmeepmayer]

Wishlist:

• Waterproof. You should be able to clean a wheel with a garden hose. This also implies that riding in the rain can never cause a problem. So just a properly waterproofed wheel.
  I believe the best way is to achieve this is to put each battery pack and the board into its individual waterproof box (the box also acts as protection against crash damage). Then connect the boxes with sealed cables. The shell itself can be quite open, let air through for cooling, for aesthetic reasons, etc.
  This is better than having open, unprotected battery packs and board in a shell and trying to seal every hole of the shell in order to keep the water out.
• Thicker motor power cables. Must withstand 100A without getting hot. Make them as thick as possible.
  NO electric component other than the mosfets should ever be hot. If they are hot, they are too weak or small.
• Keep the big mosfets and have good cooling, or make electrical components even stronger. Do not put a lot of electric components and cables into a small space.
• Easy tire change.
• Better braking. The firmware should distinguish between accelerating and braking, and make the braking much stronger than the acceleration.
• Pedals high enough so they don't scrape the ground in curves and with uneven ground.
• The bottom corners of the shell must be high enough and not hit the ground. For example, Veteran Sherman and Begode RS show too low shell corners. If you hit a curb with low tire pressure, or ride offroad, the shell corners might hit the ground.

• Bigger battery = better

[RockyTop]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Better braking. The firmware should distinguish between accelerating and braking, and make the braking much stronger than the acceleration.

Great reminder!!!! As mush as I appreciate the things that can be done in the software and believe that having these option are important to many or most people, Please have an option where we can turn all that $#!% off. I don't want my wheel thinking for me. Just keep those pedals level at all cost. I am a GotWay fan for that one reason. I would love KingSong but I can't stand the wheel's "calculated" motions. 

If one wheel could have several software ride options more people would be happy with that one wheel. I am not talking about the lame softness settings most wheels have. I am talking about completely different personalities. Currently we have software updated that drag everyone threw improvements that we do no want. They fixed a "problem" AND MADE THE RIDE SMOOTER. I DON'T WANT THE SMOOTING!! Let us pick the "Godway mode" the "KingSing Mode" or The best mode ever "Iron Korea mode" with or without Bake assist. 

Yeah....and everything that @meepmeepmayersaid

Also tilt options would be nice. Let us set the tilt below the beep. And Let us set the tilt movements. (fast -slow, progressive) 

On the GotWay I added a very loud beeper. It is very loud. No question about hearing it. For this reason I set the tilt below the beep. I get a gentle tilt letting me know to back off. I can ride at the edge of the tilt and only I know that I am hitting my set limit. If I miss the tilt the fog horn goes off and the whole world knows that it is time for me to back off. I really like this system. ....... You could increase the volume of the beep depending on speed and how long the beep has been going unheeded. This would have saved me from a faceplant. Little things like this do not cost very much and can really set Iron Korea apart from the rest. 

Suspension- Don't do it unless you are going to get it right. The Veteran is selling vey well 

Edited November 15, 2020 by RockyTop

[.....]

I want the perfect wheel. But here's what I would easily settle for..   competitve specs and waterproofing. The biggest concern I have is : quality parts, beefed up electronics (way over spec!) and BUILD QUALITY!!  You would gain popularity SO FAST, if you invest in quality fasteners, flexible panels that dont break too easily, brass inserts for screws to tap into, waterproofing, and any decent quality control. I have YET to open a wheel that doesnt seem half assed as far as QC. DO NOT let your brains and time and efforts be undermined at the assembly line, or when parts shopping wholesale. Whether or not your first wheel is for me.. who knows? BUT, even if its not for me and we find out that you are building quality from start to finish, I'll be looking hard for your next release for sure!

Edited November 15, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Fox]

I agree with a lot of points here. I think suspension isn't always worth the effort. A more basic over engineered durable frame and electrics while waterproof at a lower cost is a win.  You would steal so much market share.

Not everyone wants a super fast wheel. For those that do there are many options.

Suspension could ruin sales of a solid wheel because its not as good as x brand or they don't like the feel or system. A option without and without that cost involved is a good idea too.  

[meepmeepmayer]

I forgot: a good mud guard that is more than an afterthought and protects against water and dust. You can't commute with a EUC if you can't arrive clean.

[xiiijojjo]

Regardless of suspension or not i would like to see euc take an apple-like simplistic approach to designing the shell (rectangular like msuper line not the eggs we have grown to hate)  and to used some sort of roll cage metal bars like the veteran not even for the protection of the vehicle but also for attachments on the euc, i have seen people with so many crazy things attached to the sherman and i think this is the future, being able to easily mod something that is simple and well-designed.

Another big wish i think most the community share is the wish for a euc company that actually does real quality control instead of just putting a sticker that says QC on an electric vehicle capable of life-threatening speeds and call it a day.

Third: For the proliferation of this technology and for the general public to have positive experiences with these vehicles we need less horror stories about cut outs which are mostly user error but they still hurt the image and public perception of this wheel. So we need to decrease the likelihood people are even capable of pushing the wheel remotely close to the limit of cut off and i think this is just done by overbuilding an euc having a motor/battery capable of easily going 150km/h purposefully being limited by software to force some kind of resistance like tilt-back that way having a virtual limit rather than having the speed limit be when you reach 0 torque and cut out.

Beyond that it's all just a matter of specifications like 84 vs 100 vs 126 volt etc. 1800 vs 2600 vs 3200 vs 3600 wh battery. Being able to have one design, one shell to rule them all would be really nice. Being able to buy a shell from a company and then pick whichever combination of voltage or battery size and knowing it's all modular and all fits together. Of course you couldn't match a 126v board with a 84v battery but being able to buy a shell in 2020 with 84v board and 1800wh battery and when 2024 rolls around the corner you order 164v board + 3600wh battery that fits the same, well designed and robust shell from 2020.

But maybe that idea benefits the user more than the company i don't know 

[Finn Bjerke]

Specs I dream of: 

Tire 18*3 inch
Easy to tire-change.
A real suspension system chock based.  
robust overall 
Waterproof
Fair price. 

[GothamMike]

On 10/30/2020 at 2:29 AM, Tinkererboi said:

My dream EUC specs:

High Torque 60kph

Lift cut-off switch 

18 x 3.0 tyres

Open concept - tyres fully exposed like the 16x, GT16 and MSX series. Very important for offroading.

High pedal clearance

IP55 water resistance minimum

Trolley handle mounted externally, to prevent water ingress. The current gen 4 section gt16 handle is pretty good. Maybe even better than my 16x in terms of comfort

Battery - 1600 to 1800wh is enough in my opinion. 

Rigid external frame, like the Sherman.

android Apple Watch support.

 

[GothamMike]

On 11/13/2020 at 6:31 PM, Scottie888 said:

While we're at this bucket list thangy, @Young il KIM please try to keep the weight <70lbs (<60lbs would be phenomenal). Topend of 45mph with a safe cruising spd of 35mph down to 25% battery would be icing on the cake.

All this ~usd$2k with SKorean QC would have me (& I imagine a lot if not most of our community) laying down deposit/s for this beast. 

 

Top level QC, BMS with cut-out protections.

[Finn Bjerke]

The way Inmotion, Kingsong and Gotway behaves will give you a lot of goodwill. Axel problems or hollow motor bearings-problems should off course be fixed. Im very positive towards your company.  Lets see what the future brings .... Oh where is Kuji Rolls btw.... There are many good testers out there. 

[GothamMike]

Consider a purpose built smart watch, like InMotion just came out with:

Touch Screen

Power button. horn button, high beam/ low beam headlamp control. Volume control & next song for BT speaker.

Display that works in bright sunshine

Qi charging.

Edited December 14, 2020 by GothamMike

[OneLeg]

So why go into a crowded space, compete with numbers, more watts, more speed, now suspension...?

That space is saturate, MSX, Monster, T3, V11, V12, 16X, S18....

Going bigger also in crease manufacturing complexity, weight, price and probability of problems.

Most riders suffer from one issue, range anxiety, if they were given a choice to get a small, light stable unicycle, which has got 1000-1500Whr, I think many would skip speeds above 30km/hr, the huge motors, the suspension and all the BS. The GT16 has many good things, which I will go into later, but why not just focus on fixing what is wrong, addressing all the complaints and showing people you care about the products?

Here are a few of the issues on the GT16:

• No auto motor dis-engage button when you pick up the wheel
• the trolley handle suck it is dangerous in a collision and breaks easy, looks crap too, makes the wheel hard to handle.
• the mostfet on the battery pack to protect the battery which may cut off the unicycle when over discharged,  only Rockwheel does this.
• The noise!!!! It is so noisy due to poor engineering
• Your manufacturing quality is bad, I've seen boards that are shorted out of the factory....
• 1500W  motor is nice, but do you need 1500W? Can you go smaller with 60V and over drive it? make the wheel lighter?
• Stick with 80 cells for now 1036Whr enough....  give people the choice to use 20A batteries for heavier riders that need the breaking/torque power
• Internally the cabling is a total mess, a dogs breakfast.
• Try a 1.95 chao yang tire,, manouverable, softer, or give buyer the option to choose tire type. 1.95 to 2.5"
• The rear red light is too bright an annoying and it attracts the police in places where the wheels are not legal.
• maybe make the pedals longer, more comfy

And sorry to say this but  Iron Korea.... sounds crap, no brand has their country in the name, Iron? Rockwheel is a better brand and you should keep it or license it.

I would personally just get one wheel, ONE GOOD WHEEL out through the door. I would play on my strengths not go into so unknown area where no one already trusts me and I try to bring out yet another questionable product. 2400Whr. Who cares, if I want that I get something more proven zero risk I would go with other vendors... Your new wheel looks like a toaster or a brief case.

The GT16 has many great things to.

•  If you get one that works it is tough as they come.
• It is tall and you can manouver it well...
• Very nice for cruising in,
• Looks amazing, choices of colours.
• Batteries are easy to access, can diagnose the battery pack quick and also replacing cells is good compared to Inmotion.
• Size/power/speed weight is unbeatable.
• Symetric and very balanced
• no oscilation problems
• V1's torque matters (for heavier riders) more than V2's top speed.
• The V1 can manouver well at slow speeds.

 

I own a GT16 V2 I wish I had bought the V1 for more torque...

Maybe this doesn't make any sense but selling modification kits for the V1 and V2 to fix some of the issues I list before bringing out the V3....

 

Edit: Yes add a mudgard to the wheel also.

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by OneLeg

[s.m.]

Not sure, but I think the v1 was 60V, while v2 was a v1's motor but 84V controller/battery and v3 was a new motor (thicker axle new connector) and new software on v2's motherboard.

I own 2 GT16 v3 - just for having a working wheel in every case.

I never had a cutoff (on v2 I had two times) and oscillation sometimes occurs on hard impacts, and only then, when the battery was below 50% and the speed was too high.

A disadvantage for me is: Only 30-35km real range when driving offroads dynamically

Sometimes I wish a little bit more torque, so, why not 3kw ?

I think the design is one of the best euc-designs ever made - it was just a little poorly manufactured + bad QC

17Kg for a 2kW 16'' high performance wheel like this is nearly unbeatable - until today, I think.

I can take off the inner tube within 5 minutes and back in maybe 8 - somwhere deep in the woods - with just one single tool in my pocket *

45Km/h 65kg on full battery is no problem - my tiltback kicks in at 46, alarm is off, works fine.

I don't know someone with a ks16x nearby, so I could not test it, but I think this is the competitor to the GT16 - but it's 7Kg heavier ,so, maybe it's not.

All other 16'' wheels I could test so far, did not blow my mind.

*with some DIY modifications plus some more tools in the 'trunk' of the wheel.

 

[s.m.]

I forgot my answer behind all the GT16 praising:

YES, I think @OneLeg is right - why another suspended long range wheel ?

A light reliable performance-wheel without bullshit would be a good choice.

[Camenbert]

I am late to the party about wish list, is it still time?
I will avoid the obvious to only list new feature.

- Everyone want easy-to-repair or to-change tire, but best would be have nothing to do, or to not wait weeks after tire size only available in China.
So please be the first to go tubeless and with motorcycle quality tire -and size- available everywhere.
90/90 R14 used on current HONDA VISION scooter for example.

- If you add a screen (v12, Sherman), add PIN code at the switch on, with few different profile (different PIN per each profile).
Example, I type 1#1234 to select profile 1, limited at 25 kph, when someone ask me to check the EU conformity..... !

- As you are there, add TPS for pressure monitoring from the screen (or app).

- Highest IP protection, easy to understand, must be standard on all coming wheel...

- Light & Strong, fiberglass better than plastic ?

Eventually USB-C bi directional, so we can also charge our wheel in the car (bus, train...Laptops now use USB-C PD too.)
This allow up to 100W so it's not ridiculous. If not, ditch the USB port!
 

Where is the project now?

[OneLeg]

@Camenbert given the speeds we ride at we don't need motor bike grade tires, they have much higher specs, than we need.  That R14 tire is so wide takes the unicycles manovuerability away.

I think unicycle manufacturers should stop trying to address needs which are clearly in the motorbike world. Stupidly wide tires, suspension, those riders should buy a  motorbike, they are actually cheaper and better for on road 30km/hr + speeds...

Yeah you mention a bunch of gimmicky crap that is not needed...

@s.m.

Also 2Kw, and 3Kw, are not going to add torque, unless you massively increase the power pack, that starts to push you into the Monster specifications. Again what is the point? Your can forget 2Kw motor at17Kg, more like 20kg, 3KW, add more weight. Either they get special motor windings or they should be looking at 1.2Kw if you want more torque... or use the high AMP discharge of the batteries.... 

I've said that manufacturers should provide this as an.. I run all 20A batteries on my unicycles for the torque....

 

[OneLeg]

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-04-24/research-shows-why-simplifying-is-hard-and-complicating-is-easy

 

Something for our friends at Iron Korea

[Camenbert]

4 hours ago, OneLeg said:

Yeah you mention a bunch of gimmicky crap that is not needed...

You joke, no ?
IP protection ? TPS as security device ? EU 25 kph speed limit profile to avoid big trouble ? A Lighter & Stronger wheel NOT better ?

You own 5 different wheels so you might eventually have guess we are not in a unify world where we all have same needs.
I just need one next wheel with these features, overall a better wheel than available today (with suspension but that's already plan).

[OneLeg]

17 minutes ago, Camenbert said:

You joke, no ?
IP protection ? TPS as security device ? EU 25 kph speed limit profile to avoid big trouble ? A Lighter & Stronger wheel NOT better ?

You own 5 different wheels so you might eventually have guess we are not in a unify world where we all have same needs.
I just need one next wheel with these features, overall a better wheel than available today (with suspension but that's already plan).

Read the BLoomberg article...

most wheel don't have IP protection... why must this one have it? We are trying to get a wheel that works, not tick 1000 requirements, adding shit that then doesn't work or breaks is easy.

TPS security, again what for? What is the unicycle theft level like? Zero, plus your wheel should go indoors with you, work, lift, restaurant etc...

25Km/h is such software can be a software limit,

Better than available today? there are many better wheels than this 2400Whr Iron, will be, even with adding all that crap you suggest. This company can't compete with the other big players head to head on features... Adding everything to it, won't work...

Edited May 27, 2021 by OneLeg

[Camenbert]

TPS for tire pressure sensor (or tpms), but whatever, after owning all lightest wheels that does not fit fat-western-riders, you aren't joking

[OneLeg]

Tire Pressure... again, adding crap for no reason, you feel if the tire pressure is wrong by the friction and drag and noise.... plus I find that I have to pump all my wheels every 2 weeks... not sure what a TPS is going to tell me.... I just use the xiaomi portable pump, tells me the pressure, it allways needs topping up 2-5psi..... so

And I am a fat 90kg western rider. LOL

[GothamMike]

Must Have:

Large Battery, 80-100 Mile range

Powerful Motor, 18 inch wheel

Bright head and tail lamps

roll cage and seat mounting options

Kill switch under handle (if handle is built in)

Tire choices: Knobby & Street

Cut-out detection

Nice to Have:

Display KPH/MPH Battery level, temp, volts

Smart Watch App, proximity unlock via phone or watch

RGB lights

Loud Speaker for warnings BT-Low Energy music playing

Audio warnings, "Overheat Stop Now" "Battery Low" "System failure code 431"

Suspension with Pedal level choices

Waterproofing: Control Board on top away from tire and rain.

Easy repair capabilities

Less important:

Powerpads

jump pads

colorful outershell

cup holder