FUTURE OF EUCS

[Emman]

 

I have watched euc youtubers and read these forums of varies types , they all insist on promoting eucs but never discuss the future of these machines as vehicles . If eucs are no more niche ridables  they must come under law . Some campaigns out there want them legalized in Europe.  Ustride wanted 40mph wheel he has gotten his wish but now wants a  60mph  wheel.  I want  see where riders stand on the future of these machines . So what group do you belong?

a) Want fast wheels (motor bike)  but legal = number plates , insurance etc.

b)Want fast wheels(motor bike)   but not legal = private property rides ,tracks etc.

c)Want fast wheels( motor bike) but with current status = niche and illegal and laws undefined.

d)limited wheels equivalent to peddle bikes but legal= given the freedoms and less restrictions like peddle bikes.

[RockyTop]

I would like to stay classified as a non motorized bicycle. I would not mind having a plate and insurance. - like some areas require for Commercial bicycles. 

[GoGeorgeGo]

Put me in either A or C.

I want high perfomance high safety margin wheels.  Whether they stay in the current legal limbo or they gain actual road legality status is irrelevant to me, i will play with them all the same.  

I do not think they are commuters though honestly, i understand the attraction for price per mile on an euc as a commuter but lets get real, its only got 1 wheel and no rollcage or any safety equipment at all for that matter, theres no climate control aspect at all, the range is realistically limited, refueling takes hours, city infrastructure (at least in the usa) is not built to cope with pevs.  

To me they are bicycle replacements, not car replacements.  They are dirt bikes, made to have fun with and participate in sporting events with.  

Im sure there are some people that commute year round on bicycles and motorcycles, but based on my morning commute i dont think that market is very big. The hobbyist market however is huge and (until covid) was rapidly expanding in the technological space (PEVs, drones, computers)

So personally while i see the appeal to the city commuter, i just think the hobbyist interest will far outweigh the commuting interest in the endgame

[mike_bike_kite]

e) I'm happy with a sustained top speed of 30mph but you can't classify a 30MPH motorised vehicle as a bicycle (in the UK at least) otherwise it gets too dangerous for cyclists in the cycle lanes. I don't mind staying at bicycle speeds in the cycle lanes, I don't mind staying at car speeds up to 30mph. Above that speed I feel it's just not safe. I'd much prefer to be legal and insured - at the moment I run the risk of having my wheel taken off me by the police.

[Emman]

Seems like the country hobbyist will win over city commuters. The question is what percentage of riders commute on these things?

[.....]

Put me squarely in category C:

There are ZERO laws concerning my euc directly, in my area. Its niche' its fun, its unregulated as far as I'm concerned.

@GoGeorgeGo pretty much sums up what I think about it as well. Hobby, as the usa is set up with VAST amounts of travel needed for VAST amounts of workers. Yes, we have congested clusterf**k cities, but the majority of the usa is not so tight. No climate control, no safety systems, no mirrors to put on makeup, no ability to pick up passengers and the pita children. Lets not even fool ourselves into suggesting that MOST of the population is capable or willing to learn to ride an euc. If the euc became popular enough to be BIG money, the government would step in to control it and get a piece of the pie. 1 wheel per 1 person is expensive (well maybe not in compare to the $20k car the high schooler somehow drives). Lack of legislation is also what helps me enjoy paramotoring. Not many things left that arent over-regulated imho.

Edited November 23, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Obee]

Might be an American attitude but none of those categories really fit when you believe you are allowed to do something as long as it's not prohibited by law, rather than believing you can do nothing the law doesn't specifically allow. 

The best chance for staying under the radar is remaining niche and people who use them don't hurt themselves or others. 

(For places that already have laws that apply to EUCs it's too late of course.  My experience is based on New Hampshire USA where there doesn't seem to be any laws that apply to EUCs currently)

Edited November 23, 2020 by Obee

[Planemo]

2 hours ago, Obee said:

Might be an American attitude but none of those categories really fit when you believe you are allowed to do something as long as it's not prohibited by law, rather than believing you can do nothing the law doesn't specifically allow.

Agreed, this is part of the problem that people get confused with in the UK, even by 'ambassadors' such as Ian at Speedyfeet who referred (or used to) the riding of EUC's as a 'grey area' because not every officer would stop and sanction you. Just because there isn't a specific law definitively including EUC's doesn't mean it's game on. An EUC in the UK is a 'motorized vehicle' and it's a catch-all piece of law for anything powered, except those vehicles with specific exemptions such as ebikes/mobility scooters etc.

I believe that EUC's should be in the same category as ebikes (allowed on cycle paths/roads without insurance/licence). Yes that means the same 15.5mph limit but limits can be broken by those that feel like it at the right time/place.

In any event I still wouldn't mind paying insurance and maybe a category on the driving licence but the latter isn't going to happen with a 15.5mph limit. If we go to full on 30+mph limits then we will be banished from anything other than roads which I feel would end my EUC days forever, as much of my riding is done off road for pleasure and to see nice places. I couldn't see a fraction of what I do if I had to use the road everywhere.

[Nostris]

D. That would do fine for me thanks!

[conecones]

An EUC legalized as a motor bike will suck. It would likely be much bigger, heavier with a lot of safety features we currently don't have and will limit the places we can go with it (probably won't be able to take it into a store, restaurant,...etc.)

By design the EUC is not as safe as other PEV's so realistically they will likely only get legalized to be included in same the category as pedal bikes (my preference, D) with a severe speed cap limit (20mph or less). Right now many places are looking to legalizing electric scooters and e-bikes in the same group as pedal bikes and the 20mph speed limit cap is the generally agreed upon.

Just like with E-bike and scooters, to keep the speed demon customers happy, after-market (i.e., illegal) chips or software can be bought to unlock the EUC to go however fast you want it to. This way, cops can enforce and ticket idiots who want to ride like a maniac on the road (who obviously chipped their unit) or use their discretion to leave you alone if you're following the rules of the road, even if they suspect your unit may be chipped.

Win-win for everyone. The law should be regulating people's behavior over simply banning the object/activity. Example: we don't ban alcohol - we just punish irresponsible alcohol users.

[Nostris]

I’m definitely a D guy as well 👍

[Sushiroller]

The realistic option for me is D. 

Where I live in my state, NC, the state law is pretty cool and allows for use for various paths and riders are considered to be pedestrians.

20-175.6. Electric personal assistive mobility devices:
"An electric personal assistive mobility device may be operated on public highways with posted speeds of 25 miles per hour or less, sidewalks, and bicycle paths. A person operating an electric personal assistive mobility device on a sidewalk, roadway, or bicycle path shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and other human-powered devices. A person operating an electric personal assistive mobility device shall have all rights and duties of a pedestrian, including the rights and duties set forth in Part 11 of this Article."

However, municipal laws are able to add restrictions to riders. So where I live, I can only take my EUC where I don't want to be anyway (next to cars haha) and they are not allowed on the beautiful greenways that we have. If the EUC speed has to be reduced, but I get to take the EUC on the greenways, then I would be pretty happy.

But maybe it isn't the EUC that needs to be regulated, but cities just need to have better lanes. I think most forward-thinking cities want to have a good balance of accommodating pedestrians and things like bikes/scooters/EUC's. My city just isn't there yet.

I also work in health care and we get "pedestrian vs car" patients all the time. I like this hobby, but I like my intact limbs even more haha.

[Flying W]

I'm hoping for enough sales to keep EUCs progressing but not enough to have them mainstream to the point of over regulation. 

I don't want to lose the ability to walk through a store, but I'd take insurance if I could get it. A ghost riding wheel can do serious damage to a person walking or really dent up a parked car.

I do think they need to have their own catagory though. Nothing else and blend in with pedestrians at walking pace and also ride in the road at 40+mph. The EUC can go off-road without impacting the trails much at all since they don't throttle steer or skid down hill.

I know regulation will find us all someday, but I hope common sense prevails. Speed capping a PEV when my motorcycle can triple the speed limit just seems silly. I agree with regulation the actions and not the machine. 

[Planemo]

16 minutes ago, Flying W said:

Nothing else and blend in with pedestrians at walking pace and also ride in the road at 40+mph.

I can't see any vehicle capable of doing 40mph being allowed on the pavement.

You're putting too much faith in the idiots that make up our society to behave themselves.

[.....]

11 hours ago, Sushiroller said:

The realistic option for me is D. 

Where I live in my state, NC, the state law is pretty cool and allows for use for various paths and riders are considered to be pedestrians.

20-175.6. Electric personal assistive mobility devices:
"An electric personal assistive mobility device may be operated on public highways with posted speeds of 25 miles per hour or less, sidewalks, and bicycle paths. A person operating an electric personal assistive mobility device on a sidewalk, roadway, or bicycle path shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and other human-powered devices. A person operating an electric personal assistive mobility device shall have all rights and duties of a pedestrian, including the rights and duties set forth in Part 11 of this Article."

However, municipal laws are able to add restrictions to riders. So where I live, I can only take my EUC where I don't want to be anyway (next to cars haha) and they are not allowed on the beautiful greenways that we have. If the EUC speed has to be reduced, but I get to take the EUC on the greenways, then I would be pretty happy.

But maybe it isn't the EUC that needs to be regulated, but cities just need to have better lanes. I think most forward-thinking cities want to have a good balance of accommodating pedestrians and things like bikes/scooters/EUC's. My city just isn't there yet.

I also work in health care and we get "pedestrian vs car" patients all the time. I like this hobby, but I like my intact limbs even more haha.

Well sonofabitch. Almost ALL rural roads are 45mph in my area of NC. HIghways are 45-55mph and communities are not linked by ANY walkways/sidewalks/paths etc. .   Even metropolitan neighborhood streets are 35mph! So basically in NC, it is illegal to step off my proprety and on to any wheel I own? I don't think thats too 'cool' of NC, personally. I don't need clarification, as I will try to remain ingorant now that I know the law is already on its way. Ignorance isnt an excuse, but it is bliss. In the end idgaf, being a criminal is common. Just another simple rule that costs money or freedom each time its enforced. As usual.. the game is afoot.... too bad video is evidence, as I too will be just an idiot who advertises their criminal behavior. ugh.. here comes the hammer already.

Edited January 22, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Flying W]

20 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I can't see any vehicle capable of doing 40mph being allowed on the pavement.

You're putting too much faith in the idiots that make up our society to behave themselves.

I don't expect anyone to behave themselves, and if caught tickets written, just don't want the behaving part forced though hardware. 

We might be living in the golden age right now. With many EUCs that can easily go walking speed and also break 40 and beyond. I don't think the EUC should be out in traffic at those speeds, or on a sidewalk at this speeds. 

Regulating a PEV that can perform like this while being this small with only one wheel is a difficult thing to do. For law makers the easiest would be to make them illegal and be done with it. 

[mike_bike_kite]

The problem with some folk is they can't help doing stupid things. Just yesterday I was contacted about a ride out in London  - the organiser seemed oblivious to the fact that there's a pandemic and that we're in lockdown and not supposed to leave our houses so parading around on vehicles which are currently illegal isn't really promoting EUC's in anyone's eyes.  

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Well sonofabitch. Almost ALL rural roads are 45mph in my area of NC. HIghways are 45-55mph and communities are not linked by ANY walkways/sidewalks/paths etc. .   

Hahaha well that's pissed on your cornflakes hasn't it

You will be Public Enemy No.1 soon. I can just imagine your mug shot on the poster with a half smoked rollup hanging out your mouth.

52 minutes ago, Flying W said:

 For law makers the easiest would be to make them illegal and be done with it. 

And that's exactly the way I fear it will go, particularly in the UK

49 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Just yesterday I was contacted about a ride out in London  - the organiser seemed oblivious to the fact that there's a pandemic and that we're in lockdown and not supposed to leave our houses so parading around on vehicles which are currently illegal isn't really promoting EUC's in anyone's eyes.  

Yep, this happens a lot. Very frustrating and I agree puts us in a very poor light (to members of the public) at the worst possible time (whilst we are illegal). Despite desperately wanting to ride, I have declined group rides myself.

[null]

5 hours ago, Flying W said:

40 and beyond. I don't think the EUC should be out in traffic at those speeds

For riding quite a bit in Parisian traffic (sidewalks are illegal) going with the flow is much smoother than being constantly taken over by agressive cars.

Im all for speed limits but it is IMO safer if they are the same for all the véhicules in a lane. (Whether car or bike lane, I look at you spandex cyclists)

As for physical limitation I have had several cases where the ability to be faster than legal have gotten me out of dangerous situations, including police car chase* and random red light runners.

*I was not the one chased

edit: I’ll agree 40mph is a bit much in the city at least, cars aren’t allowed over 50km/h. (I follow them)

Edited January 22, 2021 by null