User Friendly themes stop the bloody mega-threads. Better threads.

[BruceCLin]

From my point of view, mods' only job is to keep a forum turning into total anarchy, which the mods here have done a great job. They don't need to promote nor steer the conversation in any direction. The forum should just be a place for anyone to speak freely within rules. The quality of a community is made of entirely of the users. If you desire the forum to be of higher quality or more attractive to newcomers, feel free to contribute the way you desired, as other will contribute the way they desired.

Edited November 11, 2020 by BruceCLin

[Gasmantle]

35 minutes ago, stephen said:

@Gasmantle i always press activity  then press all activity  so i get to see every new post made ,I keep upto date on this forum and I consider it to be very helpful to newbies and experienced riders and is very helpful to everyone ,,this forum has helped me throughout the years and is still helping me now

For newbies a Google search or forum search will  bring them to this forum for help and if anything we and every other member is very helpful and always has been ,if a newbie  comes with a problem its mostly answered

After all this is where we got all our information and help and its still providing all that now 

Stephen it was a good source of info 12 mths ago but can't you see that isn't the case any more?

We in the UK want EUC's to be legalised and are going to face an uphill struggle whether we like it or not - this is the only forum of any significance, why aren't we promoting EUC usage and chatting about the bigger picture? You know as well as I do that EUC's in the UK are on borrowed time, we need to get together and change things.

If people like yourself could offer more advice and help we'd get further in encouraging greater usage, we need to get EUC's into the public eye and the forum can help if we we stick together.

You live not far from me - have you ever thought that instead of talking about firmware v5.673 we take a couple of wheels to the town centre for members of the public to have a go? I'm sure that will advance the cause and give the forum something new to focus on.

[xiiijojjo]

@Gasmantle I would just like to thank all the moderators for everything they have been doing on this forum for years, if not for the mods and this forum I'd be nowhere as good a rider as I am today, I probably wouldn't be wearing protective gear, and troubleshooting would have been damn near impossible so to all the mods and the forum itself I thank you for everything that you have done, not only for me but for eucs and their evolution and proliferation as well.

I think everyone should take some time to consider that these are unpaid yet extremely knowledgeable enthusiasts and veterans of the technology and so most of their attention or interest is going to naturally be geared towards the higher-end nerdy discussions, but by no means are they exclusively concerned with that and in fact I don't see many other posters in every single category on the forum other than the mods or 1-2 avid posters so you have to at least give them that. 

And when you mention repeatedly that the forum mostly consists of the same 10-15 posters discussing high-level stuff in an ecco chamber I understand what you see but have to disagree with you.

What I have noticed is that most users on this forum post in cyclical patterns like myself. I mostly use the forum a while before I get an euc until a few weeks after getting it and in that time frame I'll be very active here whereas afterwards I'll be more or less just lurking until an issue presents it self and I'll more or less lurk until I order another wheel and the cycle continues... And as I mentioned I don't suspect I'm the only one so the frequent posts from the same people in two weeks will be frequent post from new sets of people but of course you will see the mods in almost every thread. 

But honestly you have not mentioned any way of fixing the issue you point out and im not the only one calling you out on this. Your opinion on what ought to happen in my perception is more or less: "other people should be posting about the stuff I want to see posted about and in the quantities I personally find acceptable but not only that it is the responsibility of mods to manipulate the forum to accommodate this if it doesn't happen naturally." 

The free will of people posting on this forum unfortunately hinders this. 

I don't see any noobs not being helped and there are so many threads covering every single riding style and tip a 100 times over and I assume these noobs have fingers and therefore the ability to use the search function. 

What do you want for every single beginner thread to turn into a 50+ page thread about wobbles or which gear to wear?

I'm sorry if I come out sounding a little confrontational but I simply cannot find an issue with how the forum or the mods operate never have I felt this amount of trust and respect with forum mods in my life. They simply go above and beyond and don't act superior, they are fair and great at keeping a really good and positive community vibe. Instead of resorting to exclusionary measures they try to calm down people and maintain the friendly vibe. 

Respect to the mods! you guys have always been doing a great job around here and are partially to blame for the popularity and evolution of the euc. 

Not only that but you might also be responsible for saving lives by encouraging safe riding and wearing gear

What can I say I'm a simp for the mods. 

 

 

[travsformation]

3 hours ago, Gasmantle said:

Stephen it was a good source of info 12 mths ago but can't you see that isn't the case any more?

We in the UK want EUC's to be legalised and are going to face an uphill struggle whether we like it or not - this is the only forum of any significance, why aren't we promoting EUC usage and chatting about the bigger picture?

@Gasmantle I think the fact we're going around in circles on this subject is down to an inherent misunderstanding in terms of what the forum's purpose is and how it works. This is not a platform to legalise EUCs in the UK or raise the permissible speed limit in Spain; it isn't an EUC academy or a newbie assistance association; it isn't a FW consultancy organization, an electronics engineering discussion group, a performance wheel reviewing board or an exclusive club for EUC connoisseurs. It's none of those things, yet all of them at the same time....It's whatever its users turn it into, because in the end, it's nothing but a common space for EUC enthusiasts to exhange ideas.

Take into account that this is a global community with an extremely diverse user base. Its members come from all corners of the globe, with different views on EUCs, priorities, interests. Some want to see them popularized while others would rather they remain a niche thing. Others want to see us legally equated to other vehicles, but the legal status varies so greatly from country to country that there really isn't enough common ground, in that sense, for there to be any kind of "global consesus". 

I say this because the idea you're trying to convey involves a sense of purpose and direction, which I think the very nature of its global user base stands in the way of. Mods aren't here trying to further a specific cause or lead the forum in a certain direction because there is no common direction to row in to begin with. This is a place to talk about all things EUC, and it's the users that make it whatever it is.

Circumstances change. People's priorities change, so I don't think it's objetively accurate to "reminisce ". Things were slower two years ago, for instance, when KS had just released the 18XL and there was only 1 version of the MSX 

Since then the user-base has increased, a lot of new wheels have been released, especially in the past year, contributing to a constantly hyped up atmosphere, and...well...2020 has been a somewhat unusual year, both in the EUC world and outside of it...

But in any case, I think the specific tone the forum takes on at any given time is highly variable and context-dependent--supposing we can even speak of the forum as a "single entity" to begin with. Rewind a little to the S18 and V11 release and you had two manufacturer-specific forums up in flames, while if you popped by the GW forum, it was super chill with people talking about mods, pads and winter tires.Add a ton more users with the crazy number of releases we've had in recent times (and the excitement of the groundbreaking suspension ones, at that) and you have a chaotic medley of overwhelmed newcomers not knowing what wheel to choose or how to start, and veteran members so caught up deciding which wheel to buy next and discussing tech specs for wheels that haven't even been released and...you get a specific temporary paradigm for the forum. Take away the releases and the whole vibe changes. 

THE Video Thread is another perfect example. Sometimes it saddens me to see how little love a lot of the content posted there gets. Not that long ago if was a thriving thread where every video got its time under the spotlight, feedback from several users, a short discussion...now there are more videos on a single page than likes for all the videos on that page combined. But in context, the number of videos posted there a year ago was less than half of what it is today. Give every user a GoPro or an Insta360,and double the number of users and you suddenly have more offer than demand. The outcome is inevitable.

But like everything, it's tempory and circumstantial. Wait 'til winter settles in and us northern hemisphere folks can no longer ride around all day recording everything we see and uploading it to YT...once we're all huddled indoors, we'll be eating up all the footage the southern hemisphere riders produce and asking for more. And with no riding to be done and no new wheels being released mid-winter (except GW, you never know with them...), the dynamics will change once again, with veteran users less caught up in what has been a crazy year for new wheels, and possibly shifting their attention to engaging with newcomers, answering questions, etc. And other users who were too busy riding will start logging in more often. And users who were learners 3 months ago will now be eager to share their experience with newcomers.

 IMHO, that's the way it's always been, it's just a matter of keeping one's expectations in check and remembering that this is neither a purpose-specific platform (nor something that could be made into one if we wanted to) nor a static entity that remaims the same over time. Users come and go, their priorities evolve, their interests change...and with them, so do forum dynamics. Sometime those will be one's cup of tea, other times they won't, it's just the nature of things. I don't think it's realistic to expect elsewise from a global, highlty diverse community whose only common ground is lunacy 

What you're suggesting is very much like trying to set specific goals and dictate the direction Youtube takes. By it's very nature, it just isn't going to happen. And much like YT, this forum is ultimately whatever its users make it, so my personal take is: Add and create whatever you think it's missing 

Mods are happy to give a helping hand, but we're not here to set a course or tell people which way to walk, just direct the traffic.  

Some initiatives might prosper, others will get derailed, others will turn into something cool and unexpected, others mights not take off the ground. It is what it is. And cohesion will always remain elusive in what is ultimately a virtual version of Noah's Ark where no two species are of the same mind and the only thing we all have in common is our mode of transportation 

Edited November 12, 2020 by travsformation

[RockyTop]

I think that we all help each other in the ways that we can. We are not all suited to write beautiful 10,000 word essays like my friend above. We are not all suited to answer technical questions or teach others to ride. Some don’t even remember learning to ride, it was so long ago.  ... We do what we can with the time that we have.  A joke here and there makes the time more pleasant.
 I certainly hope that you don’t expect the people that have know each other on the threads for years not to ask how that stupid Rabit is doing or How’s your shoulder. If the side conversations are gone many of the people will be gone too. We don’t just show up to answer the same old questions over and over. I see people working through phases of answering different levels of questions. We don’t all have the answers to all the questions. I don’t think anyone is intentionally not answering questions. ...... unless they have been shouted down on their answers. For example, my favorite trolley handle is honestly the MSuper. No one agrees so I don’t tell anyone that it a good system. I actually hate all other trolly systems.  

I had no idea how many new members we get every day until I became a mod!! Most just fix their stuff, pick a wheel, sell a wheel and move on. 

I agree that the mods should just keep things civil and try to organize things when a solution is available. Sometimes portions of threads ARE moved. Sometimes that is nearly impossible. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by RockyTop

[xiiijojjo]

6 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

For example, my favorite trolley handle is honestly the MSuper. No one agrees so I don’t tell anyone that it a good system. I actually hate all other trolly systems.  

 

I hate to go off topic (which i excel at)  but YES you are absolutely right my friend! I feel the exact same. 

[mrelwood]

On 11/11/2020 at 9:52 PM, Gasmantle said:

Can't you appreciate I'm trying to help the forum rather than build walls?

Your idea and comments were appreciated by several responses, and  despite these two darlings above trying to derail , the discussion is still ongoing. To me it is an example of the exact opposite of what you are concerned about.

If @travsformation’s and others’ replies don’t convey my thoughts well, neither will anything I’ll ever be able to say or type.

On 11/11/2020 at 10:30 PM, Gasmantle said:

Stephen it was a good source of info 12 mths ago but can't you see that isn't the case any more?

I see exactly the opposite. Looking for specific help or certain topics of discussion is much easier with the new subforums.

Quote

why aren't we promoting EUC usage and chatting about the bigger picture?

Aren’t we? And shouldn’t a question “why aren’t we...” be answered by the same “we” that is asking?

Quote

take a couple of wheels to the town centre for members of the public to have a go? I'm sure that will advance the cause and give the forum something new to focus on.

Just to reiterate the way I see it, you were asked a few times what should be done about the issues you mention. The quote above was your first concrete suggestion. But while a great idea, it has nothing to do with the forum, how it’s being run, or what the mods should, shouldn’t, or even could do. If you want to do an event like that, the forum is a great platform to do so.

 I’m only underlining this in so much detail to show that while a general idea can be good, a forum that controls, Trumps and redirects the discussion isn’t. It isn’t a free one. It also sounds like you are putting the mods on a bit of a pedestal. We are just EUC enthusiasts and forum members, just like yourself. In addition we just help out a bit every now and then, but we don’t get to decide what other forum members want to discuss.

22 hours ago, xiiijojjo said:

I hate to go off topic (which i excel at)  but YES you are absolutely right my friend! I feel the exact same. 

Ok, let’s try not to derail too much here so we don’t have to split the thread! Besides, you are just plain wrong! 

[Planemo]

On 11/11/2020 at 8:30 PM, Gasmantle said:

You live not far from me - have you ever thought that instead of talking about firmware v5.673 we take a couple of wheels to the town centre for members of the public to have a go? I'm sure that will advance the cause and give the forum something new to focus on.

Not speaking for @stephen, but whilst the idea is noble and generous, I for one wouldn't allow anyone to ride my wheel that wasn't already an experienced rider. I can't afford to unnecessarily risk it being dropped. I know that's not helping our cause, but it wouldn't help my bank account either. Even on grass, damage can occur, especially on the balsa wood shelled MSX Maybe Stephen is a little more benevolent, he seems to have loadsa money 

As for your other comments, I do get where you are coming from, but I don't quite see it the same way. I check in on here pretty much every day, first using the 'notifications' bell then 'unread content'. I see pretty much everything that comes in, and I have to agree it's largely been all about the V11 and S18, and you are right, theres been a lot of talk about version revisions, suspension technicalities etc. However, I think that's par for the course when 2 new wheels have come out, and that's excluding the Veteran and the new Gotway offerings. I know it can seem like theres been little else going on, but I think that's just because it's been clouded by the new wheel stuff. I don't think I could definitely say that the content in general is any different to how it was a year ago if you exclude the new wheel stuff.

I think it will all settle down at some point and become the 'balanced' forum again that you appear to be missing at the moment. Its all good IMO, it's all wheels

 

[travsformation]

16 hours ago, Planemo said:

especially on the balsa wood shelled MSX