User Friendly themes stop the bloody mega-threads. Better threads.

[Finn Bjerke]

Dear moderators. 

Mega threads are not rational. 

Threads about EUC world + Inmotion V11 + Kingsong S18 = 375 pages or more. 

its a mess.  Its too much, I really believe we need to have themes. Some of the topics are just to broad.  The knowledge gatered is worthless if you cant find it.  

[mike_bike_kite]

At the end of the day, it's only you complaining about this. You set up other threads to try and move people but everyone continued on with the old thread.  Why fight what isn't going to change? Why force people to do what they obviously don't want to do? Especially since no-one else is complaining.

[.....]

Research is nothing new for me. I find it all being in chronological order, helps a lot. It doesnt take THAT long to run thru pages and pages, tho my slow internet does get tiring. The search function somewhat works, but I find that google has linked aroun here quite well. I'm not sure that tons of categories that need maintained and followed by all who post, is much a better plan. Im game for whatever is here. I do need to quit rambling as I always do.. Maybe next time...

[mrelwood]

 

45 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I find that google has linked aroun here quite well.

Exactly. It wouldn’t be rational for unpaid moderators of various job descriptions and interests to even try keeping up with fine tuned and always awake Google bots. As a hobby I must add. It’s definitely what I signed or would sign up for.

Moderators did not create or wish for the megathreads. I absolutely agree that a perfectly organized wiki-like structure would be much better for finding information. Or even just a bit more tightly focused thread topics and content, which is what the relatively large forum category upgrade earlier this year was designed to encourage.

But this is not a wiki, this is an open discussion forum. If users see it best to post in a mega threads instead of starting a new well titled topic, that’s what they have the freedom to do. Starting new topics is definitely encouraged, but some users seem to feel a bit reluctant doing so.

 We already discussed the matter with the moderator team, and decided not to intervene, for now.

[meepmeepmayer]

25 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

We already discussed the matter with the moderator team, and decided not to intervene, for now.

Yes we did discuss that a lot. But it's not that easy, people want different things. Trying to fix things in hindsight is hard and will probably not work and frustrate people just as much.

We are definitely prepared for the next KS or IM wheel though (Gotway and Veteran seem to be fine, there's a natural progression of smaller threads). Then, on release day, the old wheel thread will be locked (if we forget, please remind us of that!!). This way at least the pre-release info and speculation is separate from the thread about the existing wheel, for people who start reading later. That's a clear mistake that happened with the 16X, S18, and V11 threads and shouldn't happen again.

[Gasmantle]

On 10/24/2020 at 8:58 AM, Finn Bjerke said:

Dear moderators. 

Mega threads are not rational. 

Threads about EUC world + Inmotion V11 + Kingsong S18 = 375 pages or more. 

its a mess.  Its too much, I really believe we need to have themes. Some of the topics are just to broad.  The knowledge gatered is worthless if you cant find it.  

I've been saying this for ages but no-one ever wants to do anything.

90% of the traffic on this forum is in 10% of the threads to the point that the forum is chaotic.

 

[null]

Many forums have a hard upper limit, ie 50 pages. Then moderation dont have to judge when to stop it.
If people really want to continue the same thread, they can create a new one named pt2 or something.

Edited November 11, 2020 by null

[Gasmantle]

To be honest I think the forum has now lost its way, it used to be a friendly all inclusive site to encourage use of EUC's but that no longer seems to be the case.

People that used to post regularly seem to have disappeared, new members asking beginner questions often get little or no feedback, I think the forum now is little more than a private members club where the same posters talk about the same topics ad nauseum in the same threads to the exclusion of any new material.

 

[mrelwood]

15 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

To be honest I think the forum has now lost its way, it used to be a friendly all inclusive site to encourage use of EUC's but that no longer seems to be the case.

People that used to post regularly seem to have disappeared, new members asking beginner questions often get little or no feedback, I think the forum now is little more than a private members club where the same posters talk about the same topics ad nauseum in the same threads to the exclusion of any new material.

 

I’m sorry to hear you feel this way. What do you think could be done about it?

[Gasmantle]

47 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I’m sorry to hear you feel this way. What do you think could be done about it?

Thanks @mrelwoodafter I typed my post I considered deleting it as it comes across terribly negative but I decided to leave it as it is how I feel.

I think ultimately the forum needs a rethink about its goals, if it is a high end enthusiasts forum where the same few members can discuss how firmware 8.76 affects the rubber composition of a tyre then thats fine but that isn't going to be of any interest to Joe Public who wants to buy his first wheel and needs advice how best to spend his £1000. Clearly there is nothing wrong with members discussing 'high end' features but if that starts to become the norm of the chat while others asking basic questions are ignored then something is wrong if the forum is to appeal to the masses.

The original poster of this thread makes a valid point - 90% of the posts to this forum by the same people talking in circles about the same things in an ever growing vast thread that is of little interest to most riders.

A while ago a relatively new member posted a question about a firmware upgrade that hadn't gone quite right, it affected his wheel and needed advice - he got few replies yet at the same time others were just having their usual private chit chat in a 200 page thread about firmware 8.54 and how it affects the fuel economy of the space station.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Gasmantle

[mrelwood]

I’m probably one of those wine sniffers myself, since my time has been more limited lately and my interest towards EUCs in general has taken a more specific shape.

 But I ask again, what do you think could be done about it?

[Gasmantle]

48 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I’m probably one of those wine sniffers myself, since my time has been more limited lately and my interest towards EUCs in general has taken a more specific shape.

 But I ask again, what do you think could be done about it?

Like I say, have a think about the forums market.

If your target is high end enthusiasts then leave it as it is, if you want encourage EUC use then you need to be more inclusive. Can't the 'wine sniffers' take a bit of time to chat to others?  All forums have a few hard core chatters and a lot of lurkers so I'd hardly expect this one to be any different but over the last 6 - 12 mths I think now all you have is the same 10 - 12 posters talking to themselves while the rest of the posts go largely ignored.

Come on guys - it's not rocket science - start encouraging new chat - embrace beginners, tell another newbie how you learnt to ride, offer a bit of advice instead of talking about firmware v4.836 for the umpteenth time in the same tired old thread..

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Gasmantle

[null]

There is space for both, newbies have "Which unicycle to get" and "learning to ride" already, where anyone can go and ask or lend a hand. If you feel like doing newbie guidance go ahead, I do it now and then. But you can't ask passionate people to stop talking about their passion... Its not either or..

I can understand people who dont want to re-explain basics who have been explained a bazillion times before to newbies who can't be bothered to use the search function.

If anything "OMG my wheel is defect it wobbles" has been repeated more times than "talking about firmware v4.836"..

edit: To get back to what @mrelwood was saying: how would you do anything about it? Tell people to stop talking shop and spend more time explaining to newbies that they can use Darknessbot or EUC world to do their settings? Imagine the scene: in the middle of a heated discussion about the benefits of the new FW, > a mod arrives: "well guys, thats enough FW, time to help the noobs" > Everyone: "...... so back to the FW.." > Mod: [closes thread] "Move along folks, over to the learning to ride sub. Dont forget to tell the guys who wants to strap their feet to the pedals to stop doing that" > ??

Edited November 11, 2020 by null

[meepmeepmayer]

@Gasmantle I understand what you mean. How to have low intensity posters and high intensity posters coexist, without putting off either group. I guess we mods could be stricter with offtopic (it's really hard to separate things some times when there are so many semi-tangents!) and chat-type discussions in threads that aren't strictly about that particular thing. Of course that's easier said than done.

Maybe, if you're particularly unhappy with a topic (no old topics please, the damage is done, but in the future), you could report the post where it goes off the rails. Reports are always a good way to get our attention, doesn't have to be about something super big or bad, but anything.

We're always happy about concrete ideas how we can make this forum better and especially more welcoming and inviting to new members. Question is just how to do that. It's sadly not easy.

The recent forum reorganization with spreading out stuff into more forums was mostly about that - a better overview of what content is available, which should make it easier for everyone, but especially for new people. It isn't perfect, but I think it was an improvement.

[Gasmantle]

4 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

@Gasmantle I understand what you mean. How to have low intensity posters and high intensity posters coexist, without putting off either group. I guess we mods could be stricter with offtopic (it's really hard to separate things some times when there are so many semi-tangents!) and chat-type discussions in threads that aren't strictly about that particular thing. Of course that's easier said than done.

Maybe, if you're particularly unhappy with a topic (no old topics please, the damage is done, but in the future), you could report the post where it goes off the rails. Reports are always a good way to get our attention, doesn't have to be about something super big or bad, but anything.

We're always happy about concrete ideas how we can make this forum better and especially more welcoming and inviting to new members. Question is just how to do that. It's sadly not easy.

The recent forum reorganization with spreading out stuff into more forums was mostly about that - a better overview of what content is available, which should make it easier for everyone, but especially for new people. It isn't perfect, but I think it was an improvement.

The point I'm making is in other forums discussing all manner hobbies / interests there is a wide variety of skills, knowledge etc yet the discussion is broadly speaking all inclusive. The threads are organised to ensure people of varying interests can access the information they seek, lately this forum doesn't do that.

Join any other forum (about anything) and you will find the moderators are all inclusive, they chat to beginners, they encourage new chat, they build a forum to help people and breed common interest. Here we have a situation where the moderators talk to themselves about 'high end' topics in threads that go on forever while newbies get overlooked.

I don't have the forum statistics to hand but I'd wager the popular threads of 100's (if not 1000's) aren't actually popular - they are the same people talking to themselves while the other chat gets overlooked. If some guy posts a review of his wheel here and he isn't a regular contributor with a 2000w machine the post will get unnoticed, at the same time someone else can talk about firmware v8.417 in the enthusiasts thread and whoa we have another 10 pages of chat.

I appreciate my comments aren't popular with the moderating team but I still maintain my position that the forum now is little more than a private members group catering for high end users talking to themselves at the exclusion of others.

[meepmeepmayer]

8 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

I appreciate my comments aren't popular with the moderating team

That's not true

8 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

but I still maintain my position that the forum now is little more than a private members group catering for high end users talking to themselves at the exclusion of others.

How can we improve on that? In concrete ways, if you have some...

[null]

55 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

Join any other forum (about anything) and you will find the moderators are all inclusive, they chat to beginners, they encourage new chat, they build a forum to help people and breed common interest. Here we have a situation where the moderators talk to themselves about 'high end' topics in threads that go on forever while newbies get overlooked

I have to disagree with you, not because I'm (now) a mod (it happened recently) but because I've always found the team here to do a good job keeping the place civil. I also have many years and forums of experience and this place isn't any worse that other places (the contrary). 

This place isn't a commercial enterprise, there are no ads, no marked, everything is based on the generosity of the owner and the efforts of team to weed out junk. The mods are already helping by handling spam and calming hot-heads. Why should they have to be newbie assistance as well? You're expecting too much of people who aren't paid and are already doing an effort. Everyone, you included, can help the newbies. You can't force people to act the way you want on a free public forum, so if you want more welcoming committee you will have to do it yourself. There are pretty much no unanswered threads in the newbie subs, they aren't overlooked. I have the impression you mainly dont like others to talk nerdy.. 

Otherwise it is perfectly fine that you are voicing your opinion, forum feedback is useful, but I find you unfair and your demands unreasonable.

Edited November 11, 2020 by null

[Gasmantle]

Thanks @meepmeepmayer

I'm passionate about EUC's and will do anything I can to promote their usage, I'll do anything I can to help the cause. I don't want to get on the wrong side of the moderating team but I'm a big believer in speaking as I feel if it benefits a common good.

I've been asked a few times to say how I'd change things - I've answered that a few times but the answer gets ignored.

The reality is this is arguably the only EUC forum of any significant size - is it busy? --- No it isn't, it has 1000's of members but has 12 moderators talking to each other about topics of interest to themselves alone. I appreciate I'm painting with a broad brush but that is the reality.

To go back to the original posters point about threads running into 100's of pages - he's right, I support his view. I've made the same point and got nowhere. What kind of forum has 90% of its posts in 3 or 4 threads by perhaps 20 members? They are little more than private chat that ignore the rest of the forum.

 

 

 

[null]

16 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

I've answered that a few times but the answer gets ignored.

Really, I'd like a quote. I answered to what seemed a suggestion.

Other: You insist the mods and active members are talking too much. I fail to see how that is a problem, the newbies get their answers as it is. Again, it's not either or. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by null

[Gasmantle]

1 minute ago, null said:

Really, I'd like a quote.

You insist the mods are talking too much. Should they stop talking?

I have answered the question - the fact you don't understand is something I can't be responsible for.

Did I say the moderators are talking to much? I'm questioning the content not the quantity.

Isn't this indicative of the forum problems? We now have a moderator quoting what he thinks I've said rather than what I've actually said.

[null]

15 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

I have answered the question - the fact you don't understand is something I can't be responsible for

I must be dense, too bad you won't help me understand what we should be doing by quoting yourself.
I give up, I'm just not up to your standards of moderation work.

Edited November 11, 2020 by null

[Gasmantle]

3 minutes ago, null said:

I must be dense, too bad you won't help me understand what we should be doing by quoting yourself.
I give up, as a mod I'm just not up to your standards.

Why the sarcasm?

Can't you appreciate I'm trying to help the forum rather than build walls?

No forum is going to satisfy everyone and I don't expect this to be any different but I'd appreciate it if my comments were listened to by the moderating team without sarcasm.

Like I say - isn't this part of the problem?

[stephen]

@Gasmantle i always press activity  then press all activity  so i get to see every new post made ,I keep upto date on this forum and I consider it to be very helpful to newbies and experienced riders and is very helpful to everyone ,,this forum has helped me throughout the years and is still helping me now

For newbies a Google search or forum search will  bring them to this forum for help and if anything we and every other member is very helpful and always has been ,if a newbie  comes with a problem its mostly answered

After all this is where we got all our information and help and its still providing all that now 

[null]

@Gasmantle 

I wrote a long paragraph that argumentent my cause a couple of posts up. I'm not interested in haggling with you and will stop there. The great thing about this place is that everyone is free to say what they want within the rules, so go on with your suggestions for improvements, I will leave it here.

edit: check my message history you will see plenty of help to newbies even if it isn't my duty. The moderators have to manually approve first messages, and regularly respond to it at the same time. If you actually look at the newbie sub forums you will see pretty much everything is answered. If you see an overlooked newbie you can do like me and help him.

Edited November 11, 2020 by null

[Gasmantle]

1 minute ago, null said:

@Gasmantle 
I wrote a long paragraph argumentent my cause a couple of posts up. I'm not interested in haggling with you and will stop there. The great thing about this place is that everyone is free to say what they want within the rules, so go on with your suggestions for improvements, I will leave it here.

... and there speaks a moderator.

I rest my case your honour.