Jump to content

Recommended Posts

10 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

I would certainly buy another S18 even if it came in pieces without an assembly manual.:)

50816278123_121ce5e407_b.jpg

Honestly you'd probably end up with a better result and could likely make a business out of reselling properly assembled ones.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/9/2021 at 3:23 AM, fbhb said:

My decision to go ahead and buy this wheel was made knowing Full Well what I was getting into and what I would need to do to put things right!  Granted, we should not have to go to these extremes to make a Brand New wheel fit for purpose or open up a New wheel at all, but that also seems to be the case with several of 2020's New offerings unfortunately! 

I had followed All the online media, reviews, videos etc. so was right up to speed with All the issues, while I awaited my pre-order S18 to finally arrive in New Zealand.  Now once it reached theses shores, given the widespread concern over the poor production line performance, I was given the option to take a "hard pass" on going ahead with the purchase by my seller but decided to go ahead and rectify All the issues myself.  

Fortunately for me, having an engineering background made it a straightforward task, albeit very time consuming but I actually really enjoyed the process and was also very happy to document it here to try and help others!  I got a huge sense of achievement in completely re-building and improving my S18, as well as getting to see first hand just how well the wheel is designed, from an engineering point of view, so was obviously saddened that King Song did not follow through with the much needed attention to detail!

What I can say now that I have over 2,000kms on mine is that the wheel, when set up correctly and fitted with a proper tyre, is very hard to beat for it's intended design purpose.  It is very nimble and handles like a much lighter, smaller wheel plus the suspension is Now working to it's potential making for a very smooth and compliant ride.  I have really been enjoying getting to grips with the S18 and have a lot more planned for it's use and some potential upgrades!

In the meantime, a favourite online resource of mine, EcoDrift have released two articles that give some much clearer incite into where the changes that King Song has made is actually up to currently (getting the latest information from King Song, or Any of the EUC manufacturers for that matter is next to impossible!).

Follow these Two links for improvements to the suspension alignment and the addition of bearing spacers (still using the "Big Flat washer" though for some reason) and the most recent S18 version to arrive into EcoDrift's stock for sale (has a different tyre), as they seem to be very happy with the improvements King Song have made thus far although there is maybe still a little way to go:

https://ecodrift.ru/2020/10/16/rabota-podveski-s-zavoda/

https://ecodrift.ru/2020/12/09/kingsong-s18-prednovogodnij-podarok/

 

Hi everyone, thanks for making this topic so interesting. However I have a few questions. 1st of all : What's exactly the issues with KS spacers/ bearings etc ? I got mine, here in France one month ago and already about 600km, no problems at all so far. 

My only issue is to make the right settings for the suspension. I'm 75kg, 180/80 feels squiky, 200/150 too hard.. I don't exactly manage to understand the "négative chamber concept". I know it's supposed to damper the positive rebound but I don't really get for what I would need more pressure in negative chamber versus less pressure on the positive...

Last question for your guys: where can I find tutorial for this new mud guard ? Mine isn't going to last long I guess 😅

 

I hope I was in the right topic for my questions. Thanks by advance

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Chris_rider said:

What's exactly the issues with KS spacers/ bearings etc ? I got mine, here in France one month ago and already about 600km, no problems at all so far. 

The earlier batches of wheels had very poorly fitted bearings and some areas were not using spacers at all. This caused linkages to rub or bearings to mash up against each other causing a lot of friction in the suspension. The newer revisions have done a better job of putting spacers in-between the bearings so this isn't as big of an issue anymore. The main thing now is just the huge washers on the sides.

10 minutes ago, Chris_rider said:

My only issue is to make the right settings for the suspension. I'm 75kg, 180/80 feels squiky, 200/150 too hard.. I don't exactly manage to understand the "négative chamber concept". I know it's supposed to damper the positive rebound but I don't really get for what I would need more pressure in negative chamber versus less pressure on the positive...

Suspension settings will unfortunately be very different wheel to wheel since it seems like each wheel has a different amount of friction in the suspension setup. Factor in rider weight and it's basically impossible to have a gold standard that everyone can apply. Personally I think you're using too much pressure in the negative chamber. I'm about 65-66kg and run with 180 positive and 50 negative. The thing is, the shock is extremely adjustable between the varying pressures as well as the rotating dial on the top. Really the only thing I can suggest is that you play with it a lot until you find what you're looking for.

15 minutes ago, Chris_rider said:

Last question for your guys: where can I find tutorial for this new mud guard ?

Bottom of the first post has the mudguard mod (or at least one version of it). I did the lazy way and used gorilla tape to hold the mudguard in place :w00t2:

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Whalesmash said:

The earlier batches of wheels had very poorly fitted bearings and some areas were not using spacers at all. This caused linkages to rub or bearings to mash up against each other causing a lot of friction in the suspension. The newer revisions have done a better job of putting spacers in-between the bearings so this isn't as big of an issue anymore. The main thing now is just the huge washers on the sides.

Suspension settings will unfortunately be very different wheel to wheel since it seems like each wheel has a different amount of friction in the suspension setup. Factor in rider weight and it's basically impossible to have a gold standard that everyone can apply. Personally I think you're using too much pressure in the negative chamber. I'm about 65-66kg and run with 180 positive and 50 negative. The thing is, the shock is extremely adjustable between the varying pressures as well as the rotating dial on the top. Really the only thing I can suggest is that you play with it a lot until you find what you're looking for.

Bottom of the first post has the mudguard mod (or at least one version of it). I did the lazy way and used gorilla tape to hold the mudguard in place :w00t2:

Thanks for your reply. I hope I won't have problems with my washers so good for now. Just one of the screw on the golden part seems like it doesn't fit well the Allen key, so I hope I will never have to tighten that again myself. I'll count on my shop to change tire and everything on that particular wheel.. 

I will try to adjust the shock pressure, I didn't dare to go low as 50psi because it filled very quickly to that pressure.. however what s your understanding about the negative chamber ? I feel a difference riding with différents pressures in it but I don't really get what it actually does between adding more pressure negative or less positive.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Chris_rider said:

however what s your understanding about the negative chamber ? I feel a difference riding with différents pressures in it but I don't really get what it actually does between adding more pressure negative or less positive.  

Others here know more than I do, but I'll try.
The positive pressure, reacting to your specific weight, will determine your ride height and how much resistance there will be to suspension movement when you hit a bump. The negative pressure ccomes into play after the suspension "bottoms" to the height determined by the size of the bump you just hit. The negative pressure resistss or slows the "rebound" of the shock, because your weight has come off the wheel a bit, keeping it from "snapping" all the way to full extension.

Link to post
Share on other sites

(this is a question, not an attempt to state fact)

Sounds like positive is for the upbump side, negative for the down? More pressure in the negative chamber will make the wheel try to find earth faster after clearing the top of a bump (better control)? Less will get you more micro air time (better footage)?

And higher positive chamber pressure means you’ll feel the upbump more than if your positive pressure was lower?

Sometimes shock systems are the other way around and I have no idea what applies here!

Edited by Tawpie
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

And higher positive chamber pressure means you’ll feel the upbump more than if your positive pressure was lower?

Yes, if I understand what you mean.

Using Whalesmash's numbers above as an example only, let's say you are riding along with 180 positive and 50 negative in the shock and hit a rising bump. The positive pressure resists compression of the suspension by increasing pressure in the shock (actually an air spring), let's say it goes from 180 to 220 as the wheel moves up from the bump and against the inertia of your weight which the wheel now feels as 75 kg compressing the suspension instead of the 65 kg when flat and level.  The negative pressure at that point will have decreased, let's say down to 30.

Now the wheel comes down on the other side of the bump (vast oversimplification). Your body will be lighter relative to the wheel for a moment, let's say the wheel sees body weight as 50 kg instead of the resting weight of 65 kg. and since you'd set ride height based on body weight of 65 kg, the suspension "decompresses." The negative chamber resists this, increasing in pressure as the suspension opens up. Eventually, if there are no new bumps, you'll be back to "stable," 65 kg of body weight suspended by 180 pounds of positive air pressure with 50 pounds of "negative" pressure ready to offset changes.

If you hit a hole instead of a rising bump, the process is the same but in reverse. When Kuji goes off a one meter wall to the ground below, he is in effect weightless during that drop relative to the wheel. The suspension decompresses or opens, positive pressure pushing it apart while the negative chamber resists this by building pressure. When he hits the ground, suspension compresses, postive pressure increases, negative pressure decreases, but things quickly balance out without "pogo stick" bouncing.

Again, there are engineers here who could give you a better explanation. But I believe this is why you have to "tune" the airspring (shock) to your weight, your riding style, and the terrain you like to ride. How much bump resistance and response do you want to "feel?"

Edited by Yellowjacket
Link to post
Share on other sites

There has been some focus on the negative chamber's reduction/dampening of top-out, but its other primary purpose is to assist compression of the shock, which can make the it feel more supple/plush through the first portion fo the shock's travel. I like the analogy of a spotter initially helping you bench press when you've got  a little too much weight on the bar. They help to get the bar moving at first, and then their help trails off.
You want your positive chamber to have enough pressure to keep you from bottoming out the suspension during your normal use, but if that makes the shock feel too stiff, or it doesn't seem to respond well to small or medium bumps and such, bumping up the negative pressure can help. Increasing the negative pressure too much will also increase your sag and reduce the usable travel of the suspension though, so you don't want to g

Link to post
Share on other sites

Btw fellow riders, I ve muy some finished line fluorine oil on my damper plungers and every bearing, spacers etc... And I gotta say it made a big difference. Everything immediately felt very... Lubricated I guess. However it felt much better than lithium grease that collect the dust, everything felt very "fluid".. thumbs up for me towards this product.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe I got a 3rd Gen wheel (received from ewheels Dec 21).  Just from my initial riding of it I believe most of the previous issues have been fixed or at least my wheel is not suffering from them. My suspension feels great and is completely silent.  My tire / wheel is perfectly centered, so far it rides great.  My only complaint is the tire itself.  Although it spins without wobble and sticks fine on dry pavement it seems pretty loose on wet and downright scary if there is anything more than moisture like mud or pine needles.  Wet grass is evil.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, pkinpdx said:

My tire / wheel is perfectly centered, so far it rides great.  My only complaint is the tire itself.  Although it spins without wobble and sticks fine on dry pavement it seems pretty loose on wet and downright scary if there is anything more than moisture like mud or pine needles.  Wet grass is evil.

Imho any perfect EUC tire has no chance to stick on wet grass, pine needles or mud. One has to drive very straight over such "obstacles" and refrain from any balancing or direction change needs.

It's just one small wheel with a small contact patch keeping a rider upright!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Its not just side to side loose which you expect.  My wheel tends to burn out in an attempt to balance front / back.  Its fine if everything is level and I don't change direction but If i am changing elevation and or want to change speed and hit pine needles / thin layer of mud etc on the road or go off in the grass and want to stop i have to do it super carefully.  My first week with it I was going maybe 5 mph and went off the sidewalk into wet grass to stop and immediately spun the tire and landed on my ass.  It was not a hard stop.  My Mten3 never behaves like that and it has way more torque with its little 10 inch wheel.

Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, pkinpdx said:

Its not just side to side loose which you expect.  My wheel tends to burn out in an attempt to balance front / back.  Its fine if everything is level and I don't change direction but If i am changing elevation and or want to change speed and hit pine needles / thin layer of mud etc on the road or go off in the grass and want to stop i have to do it super carefully.  My first week with it I was going maybe 5 mph and went off the sidewalk into wet grass to stop and immediately spun the tire and landed on my ass.  It was not a hard stop.  My Mten3 never behaves like that and it has way more torque with its little 10 inch wheel.

This is weird I'll try on wet grass to check but I don't have this problem at all. The only thing is that I almost sleeped on a wet leaf once but actually it catched itself immediately. But I guess because I've read some topics about the tire being sleepery I'm careful on whet surfaces more than usual

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...