Warning to use Chinese NoName Units

[Bryan Wells]

On 12/5/2015 at 1:56 PM, Geowurm said:

I am using a Gotway Msuper and Osdrich T1 since 3 months now. Never had any problems with these 2 and felt really safe on them.

Decided to get another cheap EU that is lighter. Found one (VEVOR) on eBay stating a weight lighter than the ones I already had.

Last week on a trip to work at about 8 km/h all in a sudden the unit switched off without any warning. This shut down without warning resulted in an accident that caused severe body damages. My right lower leg broke so bad that I needed all my luck to keep my leg! Right now I am still in the hospital recovering from the accident. It will take at least 6 months to recover and I need luck to be able to walk again.

I had never thought that this is possible, and that riding a unicycle is considered as extreme sports. 

WARNING to all EU users. Don’t rely on cheap Chinese imports. They might stall on you causing severe accidents.

Color:	Black	MPN:	X3
Brand:	VEVOR	Country/Region of Manufacture:	China
Model:	X3	Wattage:	132WH Lithiu mBattery

I have this same EU. It does this same SH!T to me ALL the time. Then i got a ninebot... those sketchy days are over

[mhpr262]

This is a sobering story ... especially as I am not a 110kg but a 120kg guy who is currently bidding on an even cheaper unicycle on ebay to learn on, LOL!

I am definitely going to be cautious and I am going to be wearing full protective gear, including closed helmet, wrist, knee and elbow guards and sturdy motorcycle boots for the first couple of hours in the corridor and my driveway. And batteries will never be less than 1/3rd full, and no steep ramps or sudden accelerations. I may shop around the internet a bit and see if I can find two long metal shoehorns that I can shove down the back of my motorcycle boots for protection against the pedals crashing into my legs from behind.

Other than that I am not too worried though, as I regularly ride a really big motorcycle around 3 ton SUVs and 40 ton semi trucks. I expect I am way more likely to get injured doing THAT (and have been, twice so far) than I am riding my unicycle. I am currently planning to sell it after the first 20 or 30 hours or so and then get a King Song 18 or Gotway MSuper. I just didn't want to ding up those too badly with crashes during my learning phase.

[Geowurm]

On 30/12/2015 at 0:55 PM, Jurgen said:

Glad to hear your are back. There is nothing a man cannot accomplish when he has the right attitude.

You'll be on your new wheel before you can run again.

Best wishes for 2016;

@Jurgen: Probably you are right. Riding is so much easier than running :-)

[Tom]

1 hour ago, mhpr262 said:

This is a sobering story ... especially as I am not a 110kg but a 120kg guy who is currently bidding on an even cheaper unicycle on ebay to learn on, LOL!

I am definitely going to be cautious and I am going to be wearing full protective gear, including closed helmet, wrist, knee and elbow guards and sturdy motorcycle boots for the first couple of hours in the corridor and my driveway. And batteries will never be less than 1/3rd full, and no steep ramps or sudden accelerations. I may shop around the internet a bit and see if I can find two long metal shoehorns that I can shove down the back of my motorcycle boots for protection against the pedals crashing into my legs from behind.

Other than that I am not too worried though, as I regularly ride a really big motorcycle around 3 ton SUVs and 40 ton semi trucks. I expect I am way more likely to get injured doing THAT (and have been, twice so far) than I am riding my unicycle. I am currently planning to sell it after the first 20 or 30 hours or so and then get a King Song 18 or Gotway MSuper. I just didn't want to ding up those too badly with crashes during my learning phase.

I think the expectation plays a huge part in the possibility of injuring yourself. If you are always aware the EUC could turn of at literally any second, then you will ride always being prepared to come off.

[Geowurm]

16 hours ago, Shoe73 said:

My dad has one leg that is shorter due to the way they set the bones when he broke his leg in a bicycle accident when he was young. He didn't get special shoes and continued to live an active life but it caused some twisting pressure on his spine, which eventually led to a ruptured disk and constant pain. He has found ways to manage and now makes his own shoes in order to get the lift perfect.  Anyway, I share this with you because he says the problems he has with his life now are because he didn't want to wear the special uneven shoes to compensate for the short leg when he was younger. 

It's really terrible what happened to you there.  My main worry about the power cutting out was falling on my face, I'm surprised that the foot peg could break your leg like that.  How did it happen exactly, you fell forward, and the wheel landed on your leg I guess? I saw references to X-rays but I don't see the in any of your posts, did you take them down?  Anyway I wish you a fast recovery.

I have a no-name EU that I bought on eBay for US $170 shipped. I've been learning on it with my kids and we have been very happy with it so far. I try to stop riding before I get down to 1 out of 4 battery LEDs. Only taken it a for a mile or so at a time, at max speed 7-8 mph I get the tilt-back, and once it beeped at me and I slowed down but it's never given us any trouble. Usually we use helmets but no padding.  But now I'm thinking I should upgrade to get a more reliable wheel. I realize it can happen to any wheel but I'm guessing the odds are better on an expensive one. Time to do some research...

@shoe73:
Dear Shoe73, first of all thank you for your hint with the shortened leg. The last I want is problems with my spine or hip later on.

I had some X-Rays up but took them back out to not annoy anyone and for Internet security. If you want I can send you some in a pm. I'll report a more detailled mail about what was going on.

[Geowurm]

5 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

This is a sobering story ... especially as I am not a 110kg but a 120kg guy who is currently bidding on an even cheaper unicycle on ebay to learn on, LOL!

I am definitely going to be cautious and I am going to be wearing full protective gear, including closed helmet, wrist, knee and elbow guards and sturdy motorcycle boots for the first couple of hours in the corridor and my driveway. And batteries will never be less than 1/3rd full, and no steep ramps or sudden accelerations. I may shop around the internet a bit and see if I can find two long metal shoehorns that I can shove down the back of my motorcycle boots for protection against the pedals crashing into my legs from behind.

Other than that I am not too worried though, as I regularly ride a really big motorcycle around 3 ton SUVs and 40 ton semi trucks. I expect I am way more likely to get injured doing THAT (and have been, twice so far) than I am riding my unicycle. I am currently planning to sell it after the first 20 or 30 hours or so and then get a King Song 18 or Gotway MSuper. I just didn't want to ding up those too badly with crashes during my learning phase.

@mhpr262: If you can, stop bidding on these cheap Chinese EUs. Try to get something that makes the learning phase easyer for you. I started with a Ostdrich T1 500 W Motor, 400 Ah and the learning was a piece of cake. I got it used for 100 Euro and tell you what: this was the best decision ever. My accident accured while I stepped down on this cheap X3. With 120 kg and this "small" X3 your safety window is really small. In my opinion much to small to easy and safe learn how to ride an EU. Even with all security set up you will experiance at least bruises and damaged trousers.

Go the safe way and get something strong enough for you -  or get the cheap one if you really enjoy pain and faceplants. :-)

[mhpr262]

We'll see how it goes - so far my bid is only 200€. I do not intend to up it in case I am outbid.

On the other hand I have pretty expansive experience with making my own battery packs from having worked with powerful RC models for many years. If the factory battery pack proves to be insufficient I ought to be able to manufacture my own much more powerful custom pack for the unicycle from RC hobby LiPO pouch cells. Those things can easily deliver 200 Amperes continuous or more with minimal voltage drop. They far, far outperform the 18650 cells I believe are used in most EUCs.

[Jurgen]

1 hour ago, Geowurm said:

50 minutes ago, Geowurm said:

@mhpr262: If you can stop bidding on these cheap Chinese EUs. Try to get something that makes the learning phase easyer for you. I started with a Ostdrich T1 500 W Motor, 400 Ah and the learning was a piece of cake. I got it used for 100 Euro and tell you what: this was the best decision ever. My accident accured while I stepped down on this cheap X3. With 120 kg and this "small" X3 your safety window is really small. In my opinion much to small to easy and safe learn how to ride an EU. Even with all security set up you will experiance at least bruises and damaged trousers.

Go the safe way and get something strong enough for you -  or get the cheap one if you really enjoy pain and faceplants. :-)

@shoe73:
Dear Shoe73, first of all thank you for your hint with the shortened leg. The last I want is problems with my spine or hip later on.

I had some X-Rays up but took them back out to not annoy anyone and for Internet security. If you want I can send you some in a pm. I'll report a more detailled mail about what was going on.

If you are below 30 living an active life, and if there are no other important limitations in the function of you limb (intrajointfractures or parts crushed of the knee or ankle), meaning the shortening is the most important limitation, you could consider to get a revision after everything is healed well and the risk of infection's gone, get an elongation with an external fixator style Ilizarov system. It's not without costs, risks, pain, etc. but if all goes well (and depending on other damage) you'll regain the full function of your limb again.

[Mono]

On 12/6/2015 at 6:22 PM, Geowurm said:

I have no clue why VEVOR and other EU manufacturers still build EUs with BMS shut downs. In my opinion this is just bad risk management or careless concept design.

Safe for the batteries and the EU but really dangerous for the rider.

To prevent accidents like mine I'd better had a "off road" like body armor, but in common situations I, and probably everyone else like me just jump on your wheel and take off for a less than 300 m ride. My conclusion: no matter how long your ride will be, use every time proper protection!

I had a Helmet, knee and elbow pads, but the right aluminum step got me from behind, cut complete thru my fibula and tibia, where my protection was zero.

@Geowurm, thanks for the post and I wish you good luck with a quick recovery! 

I had already started wondering, whether the foot pedals are actually dangerous, because they also seem to produce most of the pain in otherwise harmless accidents. And here we go, unfortunately, and yet also somewhat surprising that the pedals can be so violent (note that the tibia is not just yet another bone).

The mechanism suggests that we might want to lobby for a change in design or material of the common foot pedals! 

[Geowurm]

2 hours ago, Jurgen said:

If you are below 30 living an active life, and if there are no other important limitations in the function of you limb (intrajointfractures or parts crushed of the knee or ankle), meaning the shortening is the most important limitation, you could consider to get a revision after everything is healed well and the risk of infection's gone, get an elongation with an external fixator style Ilizarov system. It's not without costs, risks, pain, etc. but if all goes well (and depending on other damage) you'll regain the full function of your limb again.

@Jurgen I am 53 now, having arthrosis in my right ankle because of another accident. So the chances of extend tibia and fibula (they were both smashed) with a fixator are not good. Had this done, back in 97 with my femur. Extended it from 2.2 inches missing to 0.7 inches missing. I think I have to live with it now. Looks like 0.7 inches old plus ca. 0.9 inches new results in an about 1.6 inches shorter right leg. I'll see how this is working.

From the physical side of view I better start to live with right hand turns, or migrate to the Alps Mountains, to keep the shorter leg uphill. :-)

Btw. unicycles will probably work; I better don't try hoverboards. This might end up in only doing pirouettes. :-D   

[Geowurm]

 

Accident report – the rest of the story:

Today I had access to the accident X3 again. Tried to turn it on. Nothing. Charger back in. It was full loaded within 5 minutes. This translates into:

The accident was caused be a BMS shutdown.

 

While used to have a lot of security build in my Gotway 18 Msuper and my Osdrich T1 I never experienced a BMS shutdown. My 2 EUs gave me easy noticeable warnings when I was on the way to leave the “safe to ride Window” with beeps, or pedal lifts. They never shut down on me without any warning.

Then I used this generic X3. First of all I experienced a BMS shutdown while trying to ride it “out of the box” with only 2 of the 4 LEDs lit on without any reloading after unpacking. Because this happend in my hallway, I had no problems to outrun this BMS shutdown. So I gave it a full charge and went on a ride down the driveway and back. It Worked great even on the uneven gravel my driveway has.

So I decided to go for a longer ride, wearing a helmet, knee and elbow protection. No shin guards.

On the way about 600 m after my start I crossed a street with dry level pavement. Accelerated to about 8 km/h and got an unexpected shutdown. I tried to outbalance the X3, stepped down in front of the wheel with my right leg, leaning backwards to  outbalance it. Than my left leg guided the EU forward so the right pedal hit my leg from behind in the second I had my full load on this leg. The inertia of the 10 kg wheel with 8 km/h was enough to let the right pedal cut through my right leg like a hot knife cuts butter.

Résumé: even when you are an experienced rider, wear protection all times. Most of the times a serious accident will get you in the worst thinkable situation, causing a maximum damage. Use EUs within the serious limits. An X3 with a small motor and a 132 WH battery is definitely not ”safe” for a 100 kg user even when the manufacturer states a maximum user weight of 120 kg. In my opinion such a wheel becomes unsafe with loads over 60 kg, because the slightest ascent or bump will make the ride really dangerous. All EUs better have a motherboard over BMS structure, so the BMS will not be able to shut down without the motherboard being able to give the user a warning before the shutdown occurs.

[mhpr262]

I must admit that if somebody had told me this could happen before reading about your accident I wouldn't have believed it, especially with such a "toy" wheel. A painful bruise, yes, but tibia and fibula both smashed up like matchsticks? Holy sh ... a cautionary tale for all unicycle enthusiasts, for sure.

2 hours ago, Geowurm said:

The inertia of the 10 kg wheel with 8 km/h was enough to let the right pedal cut through my right leg like a hot knife cuts butter.

Maybe some clever entrepreneur reads this forum and designs special unicycle boots - extra stiff soles for more support on small, cramped pedals, but with a super soft and grippy rubber surface to prevent you from slipping. Also with hard plastic guards in the back for ankle protection from pedal hits from behind.

[Chuts]

An excellent topic for the modding forums.  Most people will put on padding onto the front and back of their EUs to protect them from bashing into stuff when you loose control.  Maybe this would be a good time to figure out a practical method to rubberize or pad out the pedal to avoid scenarios like this in the future.

[Lovely]

On 14.12.2015 at 8:29 AM, SlowMo said:

I think my Gotway MCM2s is defective because I never yet heard any warning beeps after more than 200 kilometers ride. 

Gotway MCM2s should give you first beep, when you exceed 22 km/h. Did you check your speed via app?

[SlowMo]

10 minutes ago, Lovely said:

Gotway MCM2s should give you first beep, when you exceed 22 km/h. Did you check your speed via app?

Actually, I'm just joking.  I immediately lower my speed when I hear the warning beep. Also, I don't ride that fast. 

[Geowurm]

Accident Update:

7 weeks after the accident I am still on crutches, allowed to put 10 kg of load on my leg. I am still on pain medication because the nerves are growing back in the new tissue, and that hurts. Doctor’s advice: don't overload it. It will take time to heal. Minimum recovery time estimated 4 months from now. :-(

How is it to ride in the snow?

 

[Jed]

@Frankmanyesterday incident!did you bought already your ks18A?you must ask the seller whether that it can be set or not?because my one cannot be set.so l suspect that is the problem that the motor suddenly stop!

@Frankmanthis is last month incident!second time l suffered this.it is not my skill fail it's the problem occurred in this euc.lm a motocross rider,trail bike rider and Mtb off road biker.its not a problem for me but this one is the worst.

[Geowurm]

28 minutes ago, Jed said:

@Frankmanyesterday incident!did you bought already your ks18A?you must ask the seller whether that it can be set or not?because my one cannot be set.so l suspect that is the problem that the motor suddenly stop!

@Jed Ouch, this loos like what I had the first coupe of weeks very often. But these where all my driver errors. If this was caused by an BMS shutdown I wonder why ks is still using battery packs with this stupid behavior? I hope you will heal fast, and find some blue ducktape for your denims :-)  

 

[lizardmech]

2 hours ago, Jed said:

yesterday incident!did you bought already your ks18A?you must ask the seller whether that it can be set or not?because my one cannot be set.so l suspect that is the problem that the motor suddenly stop!

How much battery power did you have when it shut down? What was the trip and conditions like before the shutdown, short trip on flat ground, long commute over gradients etc, ?

I think many of these shutdowns are not caused by BMS but people rarely post what happened before the shutdown, things such as ambient temperature, how far they went and what type of terrain they were riding on make a big difference.

[Jed]

Hi @Geowurm @lizardmechl'm not suspecting That bms ,but the setting!this is the second time the motor suddenly off!!my seller said that this euc no setting!do you agree!but I ask kingsong.com manager said that it has!so who am l gonna trust.my one also a ks18A the seller one also a  Ks18A.maybe there is a lot of kingsong company?

[lizardmech]

11 minutes ago, Jed said:

Hi @Geowurm @lizardmechl'm not suspecting That bms ,but the setting!this is the second time the motor suddenly off!!my seller said that this euc no setting!do you agree!but I ask kingsong.com manager said that it has!so who am l gonna trust.my one also a ks18A the seller one also a  Ks18A.maybe there is a lot of kingsong company?

There's only one kingsong company. My theory is that many of the shutdowns on higher powered models with large batteries are temperature related. They generally have no more cooling than a cheap 350w 130wh model. I saw your youtube video, it was being ridden along a dirt road when it cut out? As off road means a lot more friction the control board would be exposed to more continuous current than on pavement. Do you know roughly how long you had been riding when it cut out and roughly what temperature the weather was? 

[SlowMo]

28 minutes ago, lizardmech said:

There's only one kingsong company. My theory is that many of the shutdowns on higher powered models with large batteries are temperature related. They generally have no more cooling than a cheap 350w 130wh model. I saw your youtube video, it was being ridden along a dirt road when it cut out? As off road means a lot more friction the control board would be exposed to more continuous current than on pavement. Do you know roughly how long you had been riding when it cut out and roughly what temperature the weather was? 

Maybe this could give a clue to the KS18A shutdowns suffered by @Jed.

 

 

[SlowMo]

4 hours ago, Jed said:

@Frankmanyesterday incident!did you bought already your ks18A?you must ask the seller whether that it can be set or not?because my one cannot be set.so l suspect that is the problem that the motor suddenly stop!

Weren't you wearing a full body armor when you crashed @Jed?

[Frankman]

@Jed very very sorry to hear  your second accident. The fact that  you report is absolutely abnormal. Now, as this is the second time your motor has stopped suddenly, before ride your EUC again, I would suggest to proceed to a careful and complete check of all wires and contacts inside your Kingsong. If you aren't skilled in electronics, ask some technician to do it for you. This is the first check I'd make.

 

[Frankman]

@Jed  I have not yet bought the KS18, for the moment I'm increasing my experience and skill with my cheap generic brand chinese EUC. Next weekend, in the Mods & Repair forum section, I'll post some interesting modifications I made to my EUC.