MSP Torque Range estimation topic

[Tasku]

So I had a MSP torque for a bit over month now. I opened this topic on how far can you go with your Torque so maybe I could compare the performance.

When I got my wheel I estimated range performance between 100-120 km. I weight 75KG.

I am just thinking, should I be worried cause performance on my new device has gone bout halved from what it was new. Heres some backround details:

I always charged full and start using like 1hour after max charge.

I have not driven the device on lower than 30-50% charge.

One of my battery packs already had to be switched cause voltage dropped to 91V max.

After installing the new battery pack I have not gained the performance it used to have. Its about halved even the new battery pack  was installed.

 

 

Need following info minium so it would be easier to compare:

(You need to start with fully loaded battery capacity of 100.8V obviously)

1.) Kilometres travelled - battery % and voltage. A ride performance without too long breaks. Atleast 50% battery drain.

2.) How heavy are you, and do you have extra like backpack. Estimate of weight while riding.

3.) top speed

4.) average speed

5.) soft or hard terrain.

6.) Your own estimate of max travel

7.) Tire pressure

 

So here my entry stats: (2 months old MSP 2500W Torque)

1.) 43.85km - 42%(euc world) - 87.2V (no weight on wheel)

2.) 78 kg

3.) 50km/h max speed

4.) 25km/h average ride speed

5.) mixed 50% soft and 50% paved

6.) 65km max travel, personal estimate

7.) 30-32 psi

 

Thank you for part taking, if you have same wheel.

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Tasku

[BFE Duke]

Did you set battery algorithm to standard or optimized?

[Tasku]

12 minutes ago, BFE Duke said:

Did you set battery algorithm to standard or optimized?

I have no idea. In my version of EUC world this option is simply grayed out. I been using battery level averaging option. I assume this is premium option now (battery algorithm)?

The % in any case is not the best thing to compare. The end result of voltage could be decent to compare with as long as the wheel is without weight or  stress put on it. The voltage I been getting from EUC world does match with multimeter so accurate enough for compares.

In anycase I would be intrested  to hear some results and see how things compare.

[EMA]

i can share with you so many tours i've recorded with EUC world, i've MSPt for a while.

range of course is related mostly to cruising speed,riding style and tire pressure, you can do 100-120km only going really slow like 20km/h.

moving at 30km/h put you in the 85-90km range, if you fullsend the wheel you'll do like 60km (even less).

 

[Tasku]

2 minutes ago, EMA said:

i can share with you so many tours i've recorded with EUC world, i've MSPt for a while.

range of course is related mostly to cruising speed,riding style and tire pressure, you can do 100-120km only going really slow like 20km/h.

moving at 30km/h put you in the 85-90km range, if you fullsend the wheel you'll do like 60km (even less).

This is what I been trying to estimate. I got some 1200 km with my wheel so speed has been in the increase.

When I first had the wheel I was blown away with my estimates showing that 100-120km.

I gotta test this better. And show results again. This sort of thing easy to do setting tiltback real low, or thats how I was thinking to go with it

[EMA]

with an avg of 25km/h you can think about 1km/1% for like 50km 

[BFE Duke]

34 minutes ago, Tasku said:

I have no idea. In my version of EUC world this option is simply grayed out. I been using battery level averaging option. I assume this is premium option now (battery algorithm)?

The % in any case is not the best thing to compare. The end result of voltage could be decent to compare with as long as the wheel is without weight or  stress put on it. The voltage I been getting from EUC world does match with multimeter so accurate enough for compares.

In anycase I would be intrested  to hear some results and see how things compare.

Battery level averaging just makes it so that it doesn't jump up and down in a super twitchy manner. You need to connect to your wheel to set the battery level algorithm. 

[Tasku]

Just now, BFE Duke said:

Battery level averaging just makes it so that it doesn't jump up and down in a super twitchy manner. You need to connect to your wheel to set the battery level algorithm. 

I did connec to my wheel but was unable to change this setting.

[Dave Wood]

22 minutes ago, Tasku said:

I did connec to my wheel but was unable to change this setting.

make sure you don't have tour active or log recording  then it should be accessible

[Tasku]

1 hour ago, BFE Duke said:

Did you set battery algorithm to standard or optimized?

I am running optimized setting  

5 minutes ago, Dave Wood said:

make sure you don't have tour active or log recording  then it should be accessible

Thank you, worked like a charm.

[BFE Duke]

I am told standard algorithm is the more accurate one for Gotways. The optimized one is said to be too aggressive and shows lower battery percentage for Gotways. 

[Tasku]

8 minutes ago, BFE Duke said:

I am told standard algorithm is the more accurate one for Gotways. The optimized one is said to be too aggressive and shows lower battery percentage for Gotways.

Lately I been fairly happy with the % estimate. That is with optimized and battery level average. Ultimately I always look the Volts what I got. Well now I can test it.

[BFE Duke]

42 minutes ago, Tasku said:

Lately I been fairly happy with the % estimate. That is with optimized and battery level average. Ultimately I always look the Volts what I got. Well now I can test it.

I'm just relaying what the creator of the app said after sufficient hassling from Marty : 

 

[travsformation]

On 9/25/2020 at 11:27 PM, BFE Duke said:

I am told standard algorithm is the more accurate one for Gotways. The optimized one is said to be too aggressive and shows lower battery percentage for Gotways. 

AFAIK, the optimized algo for GWs has been improved since then. Do take into account the optimized is always going to give you a lower reading than standard. On my 18XL, for instance, I can do 70 km and with the standard, it will tell me I have 30% battery left. But that 30% isn't going to give me between 20 & 30 km, as one would expect, that last third/fourth drops crazy fast makiing it easy to over-estimate your remaining range.

Optimized, on the other hand, is very conservative, up to 20% lower than standard. Sometimes it might seem like you range is much lower, but that's the idea, once you drop to 20% (which would be 40% on standard, and the last 40% isn't the same as the 1st 40%, believe me) you'll start riding more conservatively and are less likely to end up having to walk home. On the other hand, the last 10% goes down very slowly, so you can probably do 20 km on a 1500Wh wheel with that amount. That's the difference, with standard the wheels is unrideable at 0% battery (and with 5% too in many cases), with optimized I've done at least 5 km after hitting 0%. It's like it has a little reserve tank like a car.

[travsformation]

On 9/26/2020 at 12:22 AM, BFE Duke said:

I'm just relaying what the creator of the app said after sufficient hassling from Marty : 

 

In the end he ended up perfecting the optimized algo instead and it's remained as default

[Tasku]

Thank you so much for clarifying this. Good talk. I just don't want cutoffs as new rider. I think I will keep running the optimized. It is great to know there is small reserve, so battery will get completely drained. I currently lower my speed below 40%, but good to know I have fair reserve for performance even then.  I very rarely drain the battery fully out. If 0% in optimized is still 5%, well that's fine. Now I know how much I got to go with.

Thank you everyone answering! I am still curious to know how many km you people can go with half a charge. And now with standard/optimized settings  

[travsformation]

3 hours ago, Tasku said:

Thank you so much for clarifying this. Good talk. I just don't want cutoffs as new rider. I think I will keep running the optimized. It is great to know there is small reserve, so battery will get completely drained. I currently lower my speed below 40%, but good to know I have fair reserve for performance even then.  I very rarely drain the battery fully out. If 0% in optimized is still 5%, well that's fine. Now I know how much I got to go with.

Thank you everyone answering! I am still curious to know how many km you people can go with half a charge. And now with standard/optimized settings  

No problem, happy to help.

Do take into account that reserve is more for range, not performance. But you are right, if a 40% battery reading with the optimized algo is a 60%reading on standard, and for safety you (wisely) want to reduce your speed, you that have been 40% could very well be 20% on the optimized algo. 

With the 16X at around 15% (optimized) the wheel throttles me above 40 kmh, so while under standard I'd start easing the pace at around 30%,with optimized that value is much lower. Then again, you reach out faster, so in the end it's the same thing, just a different number to go by. But yeah, if you're taking it easy at 30% optimized, I reckon you probably have a good 15-20% more margin to play with (although I'm pretty sure Seba, the dev., would tell me that defeats the purpose of using the optimized algo 😅) 

Si bear in mind that the figures I've given you are for KS wheels, I don't own a GW so I don't know for certain if they're the same for GWs. Try switching algo to see what % difference you get. To do so the wheel of be connected and tour tracking and data logging off. You can either switch and watch the battery % slowly rise (optimized >> standard), or switch, close the app and reopen so you don't have to wait. 😉 

 

 

[Mike Sacristan]

Better to set custom values.

100.8v for 100%
79.2v for 0%

You can expect 70km on the MSP at your weight and speed.
And I would lower the PSI to 28 for your weight.

[Tasku]

45 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Better to set custom values.

100.8v for 100%
79.2v for 0%

Thanks for the idea. I keep it in mind.

49 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

You can expect 70km on the MSP at your weight and speed.

Yes that seems to be the case.

49 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

And I would lower the PSI to 28 for your weight.

A friend of mine @FunkyWheeling helped me early on and that was the pressure we set early on. He also helped to put slime in my wheel. Big thanks to him again.

For some reason when I tested the wheel with higher pressure, I liked it more. After 1500 km now with my wheel, I could test the lower pressure again. I just have been so happy with the slightly higher 32 PSI. I gues I am oddball on that matter..

@Mike Sacristan Thanks for all the vids. I watched latest from past 2 months now. Nice Wheellog. Should you make visit to Finland, let us know in the local riders group. 

[Mike Sacristan]

9 hours ago, Tasku said:

Thanks for the idea. I keep it in mind.

Yes that seems to be the case.

A friend of mine @FunkyWheeling helped me early on and that was the pressure we set early on. He also helped to put slime in my wheel. Big thanks to him again.

For some reason when I tested the wheel with higher pressure, I liked it more. After 1500 km now with my wheel, I could test the lower pressure again. I just have been so happy with the slightly higher 32 PSI. I gues I am oddball on that matter..

@Mike Sacristan Thanks for all the vids. I watched latest from past 2 months now. Nice Wheellog. Should you make visit to Finland, let us know in the local riders group. 

You are quite normal sounding. Most people tend to ride a tiny bit higher pressure. As long as you are not wobbling and hitting the speeds you want to hit and feeling safe then it is all good!

High pressure gives a nice feeling of sliding on ice and feels a bit more nimble. I pumped my Nik to 23.5 PSI today and quickly regretted it. But my tire is so bald now after almost 6000km lol. I'm going to wear it down to the threads just for laughs.

Thank you and glad to hear you are enjoying the vids! Let me know if you have any requests or anything special you would like to see. You have quite a few cool riders in Finland and some of them are here in this forum.

[Tasku]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Let me know if you have any requests or anything special you would like to see.

Well now that you mention it..

Special request: Can you tie that loose strap in your backpack so it won't wave about in the wind? I am always worried it would get pulled into the wheel..

Also it would be fun to see what tire you get for the Nik. How far in are you gonna ride this season? The slick tire sounds dangerous below 0 Celsius, is it not?

[Mike Sacristan]

10 minutes ago, Tasku said:

Well now that you mention it..

Special request: Can you tie that loose strap in your backpack so it won't wave about in the wind? I am always worried it would get pulled into the wheel..

Also it would be fun to see what tire you get for the Nik. How far in are you gonna ride this season? The slick tire sounds dangerous below 0 Celsius, is it not?

Haha you are not the first to mention it. 
I always tie it if I ride seated though... but yeah I will spare you guys the anxiety of watching those straps flap around.

It's a worn out CST C-1488. I doubt it will last until winter.
I have a 1400km old H-5167 and a 50km old CX321 (1st batch 16x tyre with extreme gyro).
The H-5167 would be nice and nimble.
The CX321 would be crazy gyro... tempted to go with the CX321 just for laughs.

Also I ride year round... so I will just keep riding and riding and riding. Until I get sick of it.
25000km and counting.