"E HALL" Error on Display

[Scott Dorand]

Was going for a ride tonight and got about 10 feet before the wheel beeped, stopped balancing, and dumped me on the pavement. Luckily I wasn't going very fast and the only damage was to the  headlight. I checked the display and it was showing "E HALL". I'm assuming this has something to do with a Hall Effect Sensor? This is only my second wheel, so I have no idea what to do.

I turned the wheel off and back on and it started balancing again. I rode it slowly around the parking lot and it was fine. But when I hopped off and started walking it back to the garage, it shut off again. It did this several times. I pulled out my phone to get a picture and of course, it stopped doing it so no screenshot.

As someone who had shoulder surgery after my 18XL cut out on me at 30mph, now I'm scared to ride the wheel.

[Will R]

Contact your dealer or Linnea from Veteran. I had a similar issue with one of mine while being trollied around a shop. My error was "ECHAr" though, and my full battery was suddenly reading empty despite the lights and screen working. No balancing and an excruciatingly loud beep once every 30 seconds or so. Was rectified by a complete motherboard replacement as cause was never actually diagnosed.

[StanwoodMike]

On 9/22/2020 at 7:43 PM, Scott Dorand said:

Was going for a ride tonight and got about 10 feet before the wheel beeped, stopped balancing, and dumped me on the pavement. Luckily I wasn't going very fast and the only damage was to the  headlight. I checked the display and it was showing "E HALL". I'm assuming this has something to do with a Hall Effect Sensor? This is only my second wheel, so I have no idea what to do.

I turned the wheel off and back on and it started balancing again. I rode it slowly around the parking lot and it was fine. But when I hopped off and started walking it back to the garage, it shut off again. It did this several times. I pulled out my phone to get a picture and of course, it stopped doing it so no screenshot.

As someone who had shoulder surgery after my 18XL cut out on me at 30mph, now I'm scared to ride the wheel.

This same thing just happened to me three miles into my first ride on my brand new Sherman.   Luckily no damage to my body.   So what is causing this?

[Olestra]

hall sensor error is either the connector isn't plugged in well to the main board , the sensor wire is frayed/ shorted, or the sensor in the motor is defective in some way.

I'd say the easiest step is to open it up, unplug the hall wire and make sure the wire is in good shape.  Make sure the wire isn't pinched buy something and  plug it back in securely.

test ride -- most likely fixed. If not, definitely contact your dealer for a replacement motor. If you are hoss with electronics, you could pop open the motor and replace the hall sensor board and sensors, but I suspect by the question that might be a stretch.

[StanwoodMike]

Ewheels was quick to send me a new Sherman motor and they set me up with awesome Seattle repair shop (The Float Factory) where Nick Nims swapped it out and I'm good to go.   Great support all and all.

[RagingGrandpa]

2 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Crashed from Sherman motor sensor failure. Failure related to age after 3 years of operation; final occurrence happened at about 7mph while accelerating normally from a stop.  

This slowly-worsening fault revealed and confirmed the Sherman firmware's dependence on the motor sensors: only below 8mph. 
I felt some sensor glitches while riding 20mph+, and did not crash. At those higher speeds, errors created occasional, instantaneous gaps in the torque output, with a similar feeling as riding over a small gap in pavement. Self-balancing control continued and there was no pedal dip. A friendly warning of trouble brewing. 

Below 8mph, if the sensor fails, "E HALL" is shown on the display, and the motor becomes disabled and spins freely, the same as if the EUC was turned off. 

Replaced the sensor now; kept everything else original. No glitches in >100mi of riding since. 

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

What replacement sensors are you using?

Can you provide a link?

Thanks.

Oh, that twisted story...

My 2020 first-batch Sherman motor had "Type G713" sensors, glued into position and without using a mounting PCB. 
They eventually failed. 

I had trouble confirming the correct type of replacement. I sourced a generic ebike PCB hall sensor with "Type 61H" sensors, and it worked... but I can't seem to find that sensor type anymore.

More troublesome is the specification datasheets for these sensors are nearly impossible to find, likely requiring personal contacts at their mainland China suppliers. 

The hall sensor power output from my Sherman controller is only 4.2V, which was lower than I expected... but does seem reliable. 

Anyhow, you need the style of PCB with the same sensor orientation in all 3 positions (center sensor not flipped). Depending on the chips used, these could be labeled "60 degree" or "120 degree"... in reality, we need the waveform type where all 3 sensors are never High at the same time. Luckily, you can confirm this while the motor cover is off, by powering up the controller and entering the HA diagnostic menu on the Sherman display. Probe things and correct problems before reassembling the EUC. 

If you could get contact with Leaperkim and confirm the chip type, it would be best... 
Failing that, I'd try getting two of this version (G713 G715 G713), and changing the center chip to G713 (taken from the second unit) if the polarity is proven wrong.  Beg the seller for a datasheet too!

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by RagingGrandpa

[Chaky]

On 5/10/2023 at 11:51 PM, RagingGrandpa said:

Luckily, you can confirm this while the motor cover is off, by powering up the controller and entering the HA diagnostic menu on the Sherman display. Probe things and correct problems before reassembling the EUC

Can you please explain in more details how to check this? How to enter this diagnostic menu? 

I have similar issues with abrams motor... With new sensors, as soon as magnets change the initial position after turn-on, I get E hall error and the wheel shuts... If I spinn the wheel with the hand, speedometer is responding. I have newest fw on abrams which should run with sensorless mode. I am really afraid that motherboard is toasted. Maybe fw re-install would help? 

[RagingGrandpa]

18 hours ago, Chaky said:

How to enter this diagnostic menu?

For Sherman, it's the "HA" menu #26 in this description: 
https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/23925-sherman-1058-menu-items/
I suspect Abrams is similar.

18 hours ago, Chaky said:

Can you please explain in more details how to check this?

When the correct sensor is connected and working, the HA menu code should proceed 100 101 001 011 010 110 as you turn the motor slowly. 
Notice that the patterns 000 and 111 are not present: they should never happen. If they do, it indicates an error. 

If all 3 of your sensor chips are doing something, you'll see activity in the HA menu on all 3 bits shown- but if you ever see 111 or 000 in the sequence, I think it's a clear indication that the wrong sensor type is present, or something is assembled incorrectly. 

18 hours ago, Chaky said:

speedometer is responding

I suspect the speed is not reasonable though? 

[Chaky]

Thank you so much for the reply. 

I will try to check it as per your instruction and let you know how it went.

I don't know if speed makes sense, but I guess it's just a sign that all sensors are alive... 

Does somebody know how sensorless function/logic works? 

[Chaky]

So it seems that I have an issue with the sensor after all... 

[Bridgeboy]

I just came back from a 46-mile ride on my Sherman. About 10-miles from home I was coming up to an intersection (on the sidewalk) and slowed to a stop and grabbed the Stop sign post intending to just balance there while holding the post. As soon as I did, the wheel disengaged from the motor. Luckily since I was stopped, or almost stopped, I was able to step one foot down, balance myself, and not fall.

The screen listed E HALL.

I had no idea what happened but I instinctively turned the wheel off and back on and it was normal again. I have never experienced this before, and my Sherman has almost 2,800 miles on it now. I rode it home more gingerly than normal, between 15 and 30 MPH but taking it easy and straight, etc. in case it happened again. I successfully made it home without incident.

I searched this forum and found this thread. I'm wondering what I should do from here. I wonder if it means one of these sensors may be going out or something.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Bridgeboy

[Chaky]

In my oppinion, reason for E HALL error is because mid sensors looses position in a fraction od the second. It could be due to stator/rotor scraping, or the sensors is not fixed tightly and vibrations are causing it to move out the position. 

I don't believe sensor is the root cause-it's not likely that it work most of the time, than stops and starts working again... Electronic parts tend not to repair themselves after they fail

Checking and re-fixing the sensors is the first thing I would do. No need to change if they work. 

If you decide to change the sensors, make sure u check all 3 of them because it can happen that one of them is different polarity/type. Usually SS41F will work as a standard replacement, but you can use equivalent bipolar/latching sensor (like TLE4935L fox example)

Try to perform hard pendulum test to check if it would report the error. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Chaky

[RagingGrandpa]

On 5/20/2023 at 6:33 PM, Bridgeboy said:

slowed to a stop
As soon as I did, the wheel disengaged
The screen listed E HALL.
turned the wheel off and back on and it was normal again
my Sherman has almost 2,800 miles on it now.

Almost identical to my situation. Sounds like "2 year old Sherman" sensor failures are becoming common. 

It will happen again. And it will be almost impossible to reproduce. I was never able to create the error from pendulums, jumps, riding on rough surfaces, freespins, violent shoving back & forth by hand, etc.
Mine slowly went from one shutoff per 10 rides, to one shutoff per hour, over the course of 6 months.

Luckily, Sherman (at least with firmware 1.0.58) will tolerate sensor glitches when you're moving faster than 8mph, so this should not cause a high-speed crash. But accelerating from a stop can be very risky, with a failing sensor.

Replace your motor.

  

On 5/21/2023 at 3:58 AM, Chaky said:

It could be due to stator/rotor scraping, or the sensors is not fixed tightly and vibrations are causing it to move out the position. 

Mine had no scraping, and my sensors were quite solidly glued in their slots in the stator. There was no vibration or movement.

Semiconductors do wear out... especially in a motor environment with big thermal cycles. And these are cheap not-top-brand semiconductors. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by RagingGrandpa

[Chaky]

Thanks for the oppinion! 

Thank I guess if option is to change the sensors, do it with something of decent quality... 

What is amazing though is that old cheap chinese airwheel ripoff is still working fine after beeing abused by multiple owners

[Bridgeboy]

2 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Replace your motor.

Thanks for the reply!  

However, Oh...great. So we need to replace the motor after 2,500 miles or so? Not good. Will we have to replace it again after ~2,500 miles on the next motor as well?

How extensive of an operation is replacing the motor? I guess you replaced yours. Where did you buy it from? How much $$?

Edited May 22, 2023 by Bridgeboy

[RagingGrandpa]

14 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

Will we have to replace it again after ~2,500 miles on the next motor

I don't think so- because they've revised the sensor with the newer motors. 

15 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

How extensive of an operation is replacing the motor?

It's annoying only because you need special tools to correctly tighten the axle nut. 

And if you keep your rim and replace only the stator, it's often challenging to remove the motor covers, since they like to stick to the bearings. 

Easiest would be to buy a complete tire-motor-rim-hangers assembly, which then becomes an easy bolt-in job with no special tools. 

17 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

How much $$?

About $500; shop around.

[Bridgeboy]

8 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

About $500; shop around.

Thanks for the information. Interesting.

Do you think we can put the 2,800W Sherman Max motor in it? Or would that be a bad idea? It's apparently in stock (no backorder note like the 2500W).

https://www.ewheels.com/product/sherman-max-motor-assembly-2800w/

Edited May 22, 2023 by Bridgeboy

[RagingGrandpa]

Just now, Bridgeboy said:

think we can put the 2,800W Sherman Max motor

Nope.
Sherman is stub-axle; SherMax is a bolted axle. The shells and hangers are incompatible; and the controller firmware will be wrong. 

[Bridgeboy]

2 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Nope.

OK, thanks. Well I guess I should play it safe and get a new motor assembly. I may as well put the best tire I can on it while going to all this trouble. Any recommendation on what would be the highest quality, truest-round street tire? I never could get the tire that came with it totally wobble free. Kenda I think it is.

[RagingGrandpa]

7 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

truest-round street tire?

Nearly all street tires will be in better shape (regarding straightness) than your squishy soft K262 knobby. 

I suggest Pirelli Angel 80/80-14: https://www.google.com/shopping/product/13733071135420420120 

[Bridgeboy]

19 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

than your squishy soft K262 knobby. 

Thanks for the suggestion. The tire my Sherman came with is not the knobby one. I think it's this one:

 

 

You can also see it in my profile background picture:

 

 

[Bridgeboy]

3 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

I suggest Pirelli Angel 80/80-14: https://www.google.com/shopping/product/13733071135420420120 

That is a good looking tire.

Just to be clear: it's the front tire I would want and not the rear, correct? I think this is probably obvious since 80/80-14 does not appear to be available for the rear.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Bridgeboy

[RagingGrandpa]

Correct. 80/80-14 is the important part. 
(There is no difference between a "front" and a "rear" tire of the same size... just that websites often list them in size pairs intended for motorcycles.) 

[destruver]

Experiencing the same issue,  my Sherm recently started having this issue after a successful reconstruction following a drivetrain prob. and I know the sensor isnt damaged permanently because It was working well and balancing with all 290 lbs of me for a short, problem-free run right after I put it back.  now the thing is, the part of the motor wires just coming out the axle, unknowingly to me became partially exposed while I was doing the repair, but no damaged wire, only the heatshrink (woops). I'm guessing this is causing a short when it touches the axle (or each other), affecting the sensor?

The sensor is completely plugged in, wires have been checked for fraying, and nothing was done inside the motor itself. There's a tiny "click" from the motor area the moment it shows the error and stops balancing. A few times too, it did balance when stationary, then when starting to roll it a bit it showed the error, all after being powered on and off. Atleast I know the sensor still works, I assume something is shorting it, and I hope even just the first short didnt fry teh sensor or damage part of the board, followed by the series of me turning it off and on (lol). The ironic part is all of the hall wires itself are not exposed, only the bigger thicker motor wires I had to work around. I feel it's definitely affecting the sensor though

Edited June 10, 2023 by destruver

[Bridgeboy]

Everything eWheels told me to check out looks perfect. The five pin sensor for the Motor Hall and wires near the axle of the right side panel all look perfect. When I roll my wheel through the HA menu all codes progress normally 100 101 001 011 010 110 and 000 and 111 never present. I still haven't ridden it since the one E-HALL incident though...I'm still nervous about it.