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FWIW, first and only  wheel at this point is an Mten and I struggle to ride it after 3-4 months. I should have gotten a larger wheel (V8f for example) I think. Just a heads up to anyone who wants to get into this activity and is considering the Mten as their first wheel. 

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Day 2: I've been riding for over an hour on asphalt today (I got the MSP cover from roll.nz on the wheel, it doesn't fit perfectly but it sorta works).  Yesterday I didn't feel I had much steering con

Youre joking right? Sherman as a first wheel?  Isnt it funny how things can seem so easy when you're watching a person who already knows how, do it. Obviously this aint her first rodeo. Look at her ge

Be careful! You might want to set speed alarms in EUC World—46kph is plenty fast enough to get hurt badly, even with a full compliment of gear. I still try to keep my speed down to "can abandon the wh

7 minutes ago, EVSteevie said:

FWIW, first and only  wheel at this point is an Mten and I struggle to ride it after 3-4 months. I should have gotten a larger wheel (V8f for example) I think. Just a heads up to anyone who wants to get into this activity and is considering the Mten as their first wheel. 

Agreed! I also found the mten to be VERY tricky as a learner. It is not very forgiving because of its response for being a smaller wheel. It also doesnt have enough height to make it easy to mount/dismount. My 18L was MUCH simpler to learn. Don't give up tho. The mten is a fun little wheel and you will eventually get the hang of it. I am finding it VERY easy to stand in place and teeter or ride backwards on it(now that I somewhat know how to ride). Still, that initial learning curve is a total bitch! I think an 18 with a rollNZ cover should be the goto learner. It also happens to be the wheel I ride most BY FAR, over my other two. Opinions vary, but i dont think either the Sherman OR the Mten are a good first learner. Of course, people will justify that it is, so they have a reason to buy either one.

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While I can't say if the Mten3 is amongst the better starter wheels, I can say that IMHO, the little Mten3 is the most unique EUC experience I've ridden. While I do wish for more range &ofcos more topspeed, its a wish as opposed to a requirement. IMO the Mten3 is without a doubt the best last mile commuter ever invented as of now. There's nothing better for mixing with people & crowds, on sideways, at park events, window shopping & anything that calls for replacing the need for legs...literally.

Despite its fugly looks, discomfort of its small pedals & its famed squirrellyness, it does have a certain je ne sais quoi charm that makes riding fun, makes going slow just as fun & its ease of learning & doing tricks is startling vs a larger wheel. As a starter wheel, it has its share of pros & cons. For similar (or slightly more) money, IMO the MCM5 V2 is a more capable wheel & will suit a much greater variety of riding & also IMO a better wheel to learn on.

As for the Sherman &or MPro as a starter wheel, knowing what I know now, I don't think it's a bad idea, IMO ofcos. Sure neither will be as easy to learn/ride as say a V5/10 but I also don't think its more difficult than learning on the Mten3 either. Every wheel has its quirks or 'character' & with enough practise, we learn to adapt to that. I would be much more concerned that it's more likely than not, one will be dumping their 'learner' wheel quite a bit in the beginning so think of any & every which way to protect it from damage.

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On 9/25/2020 at 7:11 PM, Scottie888 said:

Ya I'm just having some fun as all. But seriously though, set the tiltback at a reasonable speed with alarms & all, the Sherm is just like any other wheel. Granted I have not ridden it but most feedback says its stable & planted with the weight down low(er). Pedal height isn't extreme with good length so mount/dismount should also be easier.

You almost had me going. I missed that part where you admitted to simply 'talking out your a**'.  You have valid points, but you may be swaying the opinions of perspective buyers and you havent even ridden the damn thing? You don't buy the most expensive and most powerful car, nor the heaviest truck, to take your very first driving lessons. People have done it, but look at how expensive the sherman is! Why would anyone want to take a $3k plunge on a VERY heavy wheel that has abilities a person may NEVER decide to use? A LOT of guys dont care to ride 80lbs nor do they care to ride 40mph. Until you are a rider yourself, its hard to know what style you will end up riding in. Everyone THINKS 30mph is slow.... until they ride it on an euc. Granted, 30mph IS slow to some, but not most. I still think a more reasonably priced euc that has middle of the raod specs and a wider range of able uses, makes a better first wheel. If you buy right and dont get too careless, your beginner wheel will not collect dust, even as you gain others. Tbh, my beginner wheel is the most used. My brand new sherman is awsome, but its also collecting dust. Its not THAT often that i need to plan I'm going a 20+ mile ride at 40+mph speeds :)

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50 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

You almost had me going. I missed that part where you admitted to simply 'talking out your a**'.  You have valid points, but you may be swaying the opinions of perspective buyers and you havent even ridden the damn thing? You don't buy the most expensive and most powerful car, nor the heaviest truck, to take your very first driving lessons. People have done it, but look at how expensive the sherman is! Why would anyone want to take a $3k plunge on a VERY heavy wheel that has abilities a person may NEVER decide to use? A LOT of guys dont care to ride 80lbs nor do they care to ride 40mph. Until you are a rider yourself, its hard to know what style you will end up riding in. Everyone THINKS 30mph is slow.... until they ride it on an euc. Granted, 30mph IS slow to some, but not most. I still think a more reasonably priced euc that has middle of the raod specs and a wider range of able uses, makes a better first wheel. If you buy right and dont get too careless, your beginner wheel will not collect dust, even as you gain others. Tbh, my beginner wheel is the most used. My brand new sherman is awsome, but its also collecting dust. Its not THAT often that i need to plan I'm going a 20+ mile ride at 40+mph speeds :)

Hmmm I think you also missed the part that I never said nor recommended that the Sherman or the Mpro or any of the faster wheels for that matter as a starting point in the EUC game. Nor did I say its the easiest to learn on. I was just responding to queries IF those particular wheels can use to learn on &or as a 1st wheel.

IMHO that would be a yes, based on my experiences ofcos. I fully admit I've never ridden a Sherman (not cos I don't want to but there just isn't any opportunity at least in my neck of the woods). However after owning 3 wheels of differing types (as much as wheels can be different), I don't think its such a biggie to learn on a larger & heavier wheel. You weigh in on the weight as an obstacle & you'd be right....IF we're talking about moving iron. Luckily we're not & we're only 1 legging it at the balance point for mount/dismount. Once the wheel's moving, weight is no longer significant IMO. I've seen a number of vids of the very young (~ or even < 10yrs) riding 16x's which isn't exactly light for a child. If weight is huge factor, they wouldn't be able to ride it.

Sure I fully admit I haven't gone much over 30mph but I can certainly interpolate from riding experience that I can easily go 40mph with some riding time. So what's the difference learning on a wheel that can do 30mph or 40mph. We all start at much lower speeds to begin with regardless of how fast the the top end is. Based on what I know now from the 3 wheels I have, the differences are mainly in the wheels individual & particular quirks or characteristics rather than any insurmountable obstacle.

We're all different. We can only provide our own individual experiences as a guide rather than as DOGMA. As usual, YMMV

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I think that if I had the money to order multiple wheels instead of only one then the wheel specifically for learning on would have been the Tesla V2 - powerful enough, fast enough, enough range, the 16" wheel would be less squirrelly than the 10" of the MTen3, it is probably a nice happy medium weight and it would be a fairly usable wheel for short rides where the range in a non-issue.

I'm still happy with my decision to buy the RS because it will provide me with a good general purpose wheel for a LOT longer than the learning period.  The range should be decent enough and I should be able to keep far enough below its top speed to allow a nice safety margin.

Maybe I'll buy a long-range wheel like the Sherman eventually.  But the RS would still make a good wheel to use instead of the Sherman when riding shorter distances.  The Sherman is still 8kg heavier even when not needing the range it has - you always have that weight every single ride.  I'm thinking that a longer range wheel like the Sherman might be what I buy when I get to wanting a 2nd wheel.  Maybe for my 3rd wheel I'll decide to buy an ultra-portable wheel like the MTen3.  At this stage I've already spent a lot of money and will be looking to holding back and letting the bank balance increase while I have fun with my RS for a decent while.

At this stage I still have ~5 weeks wait for the slow surface shipping from China.  I'll try to work out the best places to practise riding while I'm waiting - maybe try the wheel on a grass field for a little bit.

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It was a long wait, but today the wheel arrived!  It certainly has a bit of weight to it, but easy enough to put in the car to go somewhere to practise.  The trolley handle allows it to be walked instead of carried and I really appreciate that, I even walked it down some steps and that worked well.

Learning to ride: I rolled along holding a fence, just to get the feel of the wheel and to get the hang of putting some weight forward to make it move, once I had done that for a little while I practised on a field until I got to where I could mount and roll along at some speed (definitely easier to balance with a bit of speed on).  I haven't gotten the hang of controlling where I'm going yet, I'll need more practise.  I ran out of power (I'm bloody knackered!), but the wheel still had plenty left - I'm going to need a good sleep tonight to recover.  I do a physical job, but I haven't sweated this much in a long time - I didn't realise how much exercise you got riding one of these things.

I guess I'll be practising each day for a while and training the brain while conditioning the body, I'm confident I'll get the hang of this over the next few days.

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7 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

 I haven't gotten the hang of controlling where I'm going yet, I'll need more practise.

>> will be easier on hard surface - learning to turn is much harder on grass/dirt... get to some pave. ONce you rolling straight turn your shoulders, the wheel will follow... Get a spotter/helper to run beside you if have access and you will not worry about dumping your wheel so much.

I didn't realise how much exercise you got riding one of these things.

>> only in the beginning - once you are comfortable it will no be taxing in the least...

I guess I'll be practising each day for a while and training the brain while conditioning the body, I'm confident I'll get the hang of this over the next few days.

>> you will for sure!

 

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On 10/15/2020 at 5:58 PM, maslorithm said:

.U need something to practice ur skills on, that's not going to feed u to the god of Asphalt.

 

yea, that's the thing, must fear the god of asspfalut

The common misconception that a more powerful wheel is going to throw you off faster is not really true.  The balancing mechanism will only go as fast as you lean.  Even if you are on a smaller wheel, if you lean too much, it's going to go as fast as it could before cutoff.  

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Someone linked me to this thread saying they saw one of my videos linked here. Congrats on your GotWay RS. A solid choice. Although the Sherman is weighty, I would say it wound have been doable as the Sherman is stable and a durable wheel going straight if you picked it as your first wheel. The parts are expensive though. I suggest that you print a bumper for your rs for the headlights to protect it from popping out if you drop it. Known issue. Ride every day and you’ll get better quick. As you’re just learning you want to ride as much as you can to build those fine fast twitch muscles and muscle memory for balancing well in your ankles for balance that have never been used before. Try riding in soft mode also. It’s easier to learn, turn and carve and it might safer as newer riders get in trouble with death wobbles trying to slow down. 

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I have encountered terrible wobbles on a particular stretch of cycle lane and I am wondering what it is. 

I don't know if my muscles are just getting tired or what, but I am fine for the first leg of the journey, then I get to this particular bit and I just wobble. Wobble slow down, speed up wobble, slow down. Then it's fine after that.

 

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5 minutes ago, PourUC said:

I have encountered terrible wobbles on a particular stretch of cycle lane and I am wondering what it is. 

I don't know if my muscles are just getting tired or what, but I am fine for the first leg of the journey, then I get to this particular bit and I just wobble. Wobble slow down, speed up wobble, slow down. Then it's fine after that.

 

I've found that fatigue and cold induced wobbles are pretty obvious. Are you obviously shivering or obviously getting tired? I wouldnt suspect these two things are relative to an exact position/distance. After regular trips, the temps would change, clothing would change and physical condition would change. Perhaps look into either a 'mental' distraction or irregular road surfaces(including mild grooves). It could also be wind induced, but you'd notice that more than likely. Wind is variable, but certain places are just damn windy. I'm sure youll either figure it out, or one day you'll look back and realized it hasn't happened in forever.

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14 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I've found that fatigue and cold induced wobbles are pretty obvious. 

I don't think it's obvious fatigue in anyway. I don't get the wobbles in leg 3. 

It's hard to exactly put my finger on what causes it. All I know is, stretch of path that isn't exactly any bumpier than some other parts has caused me to wobble 3 times in a row. I can go fine afterwards.

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14 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

Yesterday I didn't feel I had much steering control, just following wherever the wheel decided to go.  Today I managed to ride around in large circles, then large figure 8s.  I was able to speed up and slow down, more or less at will.

I've only had 2-3 hours total time on the wheel, so predictably I'm still not very confident and my steering isn't very precise.  I'm a bit wobbly at times and I flail my arms around a lot.  BUT: I'm not finding it too hard to mount and get moving, I'm able to ride around for quite a while without stopping - even if I'm needing the space of 3 tennis courts to move around in.  Since I'm able to mount and ride and gain practise - I feel that is really all that is necessary to be able to gain experience and the more time I put in riding the more confidently I'll be able to steer the wheel.  I do need to do some practise at mounting and especially dismounting the wheel.

All in all, it sounds like you are doing very well ... even a bit better than usual for this stage of the game.

 

8 hours ago, Melody Ko said:

As you’re just learning you want to ride as much as you can to build those fine fast twitch muscles and muscle memory for balancing well in your ankles for balance that have never been used before.

I 2nd that. Your circles and figure 8's will get smaller and and more controlled and soon you will be navigating with precision.

After that, you can think of leaving your training area for a carefully considered ride somewhere where you can start learning to react to different terrain etc. Be very mindful of car traffic etc. Try to find a route that keeps you away from people, property, and cars until you are able to handle about any average terrain situation.

And as a beginner, protect your ankles!

 

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Day 3:  Decided to get in a good hour of riding time, back to the tennis court.  I started out as wobbly as i finished yesterday, but things were improving.  I rode around a bit and then started making up some rules, like following the path (actually it was between the singles court and doubles court lines, but that is a similar width to a path) and not crossing any lines except at the end of the court.  I rode between the fence and the pole that holds up the end of the net, I wobbled every time due to being nervous about hitting the pole or fence, but by half way through this session I was confident enough to not be worried about hitting anything.

By the end of this hour of riding (approx my 3rd hour of ride time during my life time) I was turning in smooth curves instead of wobbling around, I had stopped flailing my arms around and I was much more confident in my riding.  I do still need to practise some things like smoothly mounting & dismounting, maybe practising riding with one foot would help there.  I am thinking that I could go off for a ride from home and use paths, rather than driving to the recreation grounds to use their tennis courts - I think that I could now follow a footpath (unlike yesterday when I probably couldn't).

This EUC riding is getting to be more & more fun as I'm physically & mentally adapting to it.  I haven't been noticing the pain in my inside shin/calf area where it contacts the wheel, I guess it is still a little sore there but less now than day 1 despite riding each day. 

According to EUC world I peaked at 43kph, though I averaged around 11kph.  I'm becoming glad I went with the RS high speed version, I could definitely see myself exceeding 60kph at times, once I'm more experienced.  I know many other wheels could exceed 60kph, but I really do want to have a decent speed margin above whatever speed I'm riding at - a high speed cut-out doesn't seem like something to look forward to.

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Be careful! You might want to set speed alarms in EUC World—46kph is plenty fast enough to get hurt badly, even with a full compliment of gear. I still try to keep my speed down to "can abandon the wheel and run it off" as much as possible. But I'm old so there's that. Nevertheless, an injury will put a major dent in your ability to make progress. Worse yet, an accident at that speed could make your headlight pop out.

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Day 3 and you're already eyeballing high speeds and worrying about the cutout margin on a +60kmh wheel? Man do I look forward to watching how you progress over the next 3 months. Get a camera, I wanna see you mingle with traffic soon. :)  Dont worry about the bruises, they will fade within 2 weeks and not return. Congrats on taking to riding like a duck to water. Sadly, it hasnt been that quickly for me. I did the 'run test' and found that anything over about 12-14mph is tops and hard on the knees. Its amazing how slowly we run from a stand still.

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2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Be careful! You might want to set speed alarms in EUC World—46kph is plenty fast enough to get hurt badly, even with a full compliment of gear. I still try to keep my speed down to "can abandon the wheel and run it off" as much as possible.

*shrug* I've gone over a slick patch in the wet on a roundabout while riding the motorbike and slid off at that sort of speed - my gear wasn't even damaged.

But I only temporarily hit that speed on the EUC today and I think it is less likely that I'd fall at that speed in a straight line than slower while turning, the wheel becomes more stable at speed.

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13 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

*shrug* I've gone over a slick patch in the wet on a roundabout while riding the motorbike and slid off at that sort of speed - my gear wasn't even damaged.

But I only temporarily hit that speed on the EUC today and I think it is less likely that I'd fall at that speed in a straight line than slower while turning, the wheel becomes more stable at speed.

I too struggle with realizing that the crash on an euc won't be what Im accustomed to on a motorcycle. I dont think straighline is as stable as it seems. I KNOW it seems most of the time, but when I watched @Marty Backe and others crash on the euc from a simple straight line wobble, it makes me rethink my sureties. These guys have TONS of miles and it happens to them. I dont understand, but then again.. I do. I get wobbles straight line as well. Not as often, but be certain that a higher speed wobble just gets worse faster. It doesnt make sense that we still face wobbles at high speeds and experience, but somehow it happens. Then theres the worst.... mechanical failure. On my bikes, most failures led to some form of control on mitigating the problem. In the euc world, mechaincal failure can be just having your feet taken from you w/o any time to spare. I wrongly assumed that a crash on an euc would be similar to the 100's I've had. I am beginning to think that an euc crash is a different beast.

I'm not a gear freak, nor am I overly cautious. I only mention these things, as its not good to accept the risks, when you may be a shade inaccurate in what they really are. Me, I still dont really give a shit, but then again... I just ordered a MC suit and Im the jeans and t-shirt @tiltback kinda guy. However, I somehow fear a 40mph euc crash on my sherman, MUCH more than a 120mph slide on the sportbike. Coming up short on a triple jump.... yeah ive been there. Eating pavement with my chin first on an euc at 40mph... not my flavor. Just be careful is all, or knowinlgy choose not to be. Hopefully both our wrecks in the future, will be one that we get to choose how we land and where we slide/roll. Unofortunately, I dont think thats commonly the case. Hell, we are riding on ONE WHEEL, I'm not shocked that the rules have changed! Have you signed the Gotway pact in blood yet? You better get to it! B)

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44 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Day 3 and you're already eyeballing high speeds and worrying about the cutout margin on a +60kmh wheel? 

From what I've read it is actually a +70km/h wheel . . . 

Actually, I was doing that at around day -90 or so, that's why I decided to order the RS HS instead of the RS HT.  I figured I'd have more than enough torque with the HS and before long I'd appreciate the head-room on speed.

When I got my Kaabo Mantis Pro I firstly checked that all settings were for maximum and then I went for a ride where I held the throttle at full to see how fast it would go.  With the RS I don't plan on hitting maximum speed because hitting maximum speed is followed by hitting the ground (at said maximum speed) and that isn't something I'm keen on.  But I probably WILL hit the highest speed that I ever got on the Kaabo Mantis Pro, though I will get lousy range if I ride much at that sort of speed.

I bought an Insta360 while waiting for my RS to arrive, I tried setting it down on a tripod on day 1, but on day 2 & 3 I've decided to just concentrate on riding.  I thought about getting my phone out to check EUCworld while riding today, but I just don't have the confidence to ride without concentrating on the riding.  Once I can ride while holding a camera on a selfie stick, then I'll be creating some videos.

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5 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I'm not a gear freak, nor am I overly cautious.

I'm not keen on getting hurt, so even though I was just practising on a tennis court with no traffic and no people around I was still wearing: full face helmet, wrist protectors, knee guards, mesh jacket & motorcycle boots.  To me it just feels exposed, standing on an EUC with only my feet & lower legs in contact with the machine.  It is probably not a bad idea to become a gear freak when riding one of these.

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9 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

According to EUC world I peaked at 43kph

Yeah... the rest of your post read like 20km/h max. There are a few points you have failed to consider, both brought up to some extent already by @ShanesPlanet:

1) You have zero skills and probably even knowledge on how to prevent a rider induced wobble from escalating into a crash. Beginners often get these wobbles due to untrained muscles, lack of riding technique and a bad foot positioning, first two of them being a certainty and the third a high probability at your stage.

2) Motorcycle crash and EUC crash don’t have any more in common than a MC crash and a car crash. We ride much higher, and the front part of the MC doesn’t suddenly disappear if there’s a failure with the wheel. On a MC you almost always fall sideways, on an EUC it’s usually straight forward.

 Thank goodness you have understood the reason for heating up though! It will probably save your ass more times than one! 😉

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3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Yeah... the rest of your post read like 20km/h max. There are a few points you have failed to consider, both brought up to some extent already by @ShanesPlanet:

1) You have zero skills and probably even knowledge on how to prevent a rider induced wobble from escalating into a crash. Beginners often get these wobbles due to untrained muscles, lack of riding technique and a bad foot positioning, first two of them being a certainty and the third a high probability at your stage.

2) Motorcycle crash and EUC crash don’t have any more in common than a MC crash and a car crash. We ride much higher, and the front part of the MC doesn’t suddenly disappear if there’s a failure with the wheel. On a MC you almost always fall sideways, on an EUC it’s usually straight forward.

 Thank goodness you have understood the reason for heating up though! It will probably save your ass more times than one! 😉

I'm not even sure I really exceeded 30kph, how accurate is EUCworld on this?  I will need to check the tiltback settings, I'm sure I set it lower on my other phone but I don't remember even checking it on the phone I was using yesterday, it is a cheap phone that matters less if it gets damaged in a crash.  I think I'll set it somewhere below 30kph until I've had more practise because I'm now planing to ride around on paths and other places where I really should not be going 40kph.  I'll still try to stay away from other people and traffic for a while until I have more experience.

I've checked out EUC crash videos and just like motorcycle crashes the likelihood of losing skin or worse is less with good protective gear.  While I was waiting for my EUC to arrive I bought a new full face helmet, Leatt dual-axis knee guards and an Alpinestar mesh jacket.  I already had wrist guards and gloves with integrated wrist guards that I bought to use with my scooter and motorcycle boots that I wear on the motorcycle (2017 CRF1000 Africa Twin).

I have been encouraged by the difference each day's practising has made to how well I can ride, so I will try to get in 1+ hours ride each day if possible for a while to become more competent and comfortable riding this fun device.

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Day 4a (It is Saturday so I might go for a 2nd session):  I started off shaky and after a few minutes my riding was getting back to where I had finished yesterday.  I was riding on footpaths and the side of the road and around some schools.  It all went OK but I feel that I need to spend some time specifically on practising mounting and dismounting.  I can slow to a near stop and should be able to simply step one foot off while holding the wheel with the other foot - and I can . . . some of the time, I'd like to become more consistent with that.

I used an armband to mount my phone so I could check my speed while riding.  On my scooter 55kph feels fast(ish) on the EUC 30kph feels plenty fast enough.  Going along at 30kph I seriously doubt that I really hit 43kph yesterday, I suspect that EUCworld is pulling my leg with that!

On the road it isn't easy to look behind to check for cars coming up, I should mount my helmet mirror.

My inner shin/calf was barely registering any pain from contact with the wheel, I'm very pleased that this is becoming a non-issue so quickly. I did use some of the self-adhesive padding to put a double layer over where my leg contacts the wheel and I think this helps.

Hopefully the weather is co-operative enough to let me practise almost every day.  I'd love to be able to just ride like it is no big deal and I'm sure that it will take a bunch of hours of practise to get to that point.  I'm also pretty sure it will be totally worth putting that practise time in.

I'm still going out wearing the full-face helmet, wrist guards, knee guards and mesh jacket - following the ATGATT principle.  I also wear a Boblbee 25 litre backpack which provides back protection as well as letting me take a few items that might be needed.

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