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19 minutes ago, null said:

While I wouldn't recommend starting with a huge and heavy wheel it isn't impossible either. It saves you a bunch of intermediate wheels. There is at guy over at the French forum that learned on a Sherman without any issue. ( Prolopolytoxico )

I don't know if i would have wanted to be 'saved' from my first intermediate wheel. If i could keep only one, it would actually be that one. I know its odd, but the middle ground covers a LOT of ground. Im glad I started in the middle and then worked both directions. Im also glad I didnt waste money on a wheel that would already be junked by now.

Thankfully Im not an influencer and my opinions are biased as mine. I do strongly advise purchasing something lighter and less dangerous than a HUGE wheel for first riders. I know its not implausible that a person could buy a big one, learn it and be just fine. I just think that $3k is a lot of cash to drop down on a wheel, and 80lbs and 40mph MAY be a little dangerous for the rider and public, as they learn. However, different strokes for different folks. I still think that one of these bigger wheels is a better option than an underpowered piece of shit. You may wipe out a crowd with a bigger wheel, but at least it won't drop you on your face.:w00t2:

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You almost had me going. I missed that part where you admitted to simply 'talking out your a**'.  You have valid points, but you may be swaying the opinions of perspective buyers and you havent even r

There is a very big difference between "wheels I'd like to own" and "wheels I'm considering for my first wheel that I will learn on".  The Sherman and Monster are in the first group, but have never be

There are two practical ways of choosing your first EUC. 1) A cheap learner for a few weeks, then buy a “real” wheel. 2) Buy a “real” wheel right away, and pad it up well for the first few weeks.

1 hour ago, amelanso said:

I dont think this is typical of most euc 1st timers or representative of anything really. I think many experienced riders would discourage these as a starter wheel  - especially the Sherman/Monster. 

Maybe @KiwiMark can explain how this very odd trio came to be his starting point?     

 

There is a very big difference between "wheels I'd like to own" and "wheels I'm considering for my first wheel that I will learn on".  The Sherman and Monster are in the first group, but have never been considered for the second group.  In my first post I listed 3 EUCs I like, but only the MTen3 was being considered for my first wheel to start on.  I've also considered the MCM5 and the Tesla V2 and briefly a while ago I thought about the Nikola, but it is too expensive and probably not the best to learn on.  I do actually have the money in the bank to buy a Monster Pro with 3.5kWh battery, I just don't want to spend that much and no way would I want to start out with such a beast.  The Monster Pro might be the most stable wheel you could buy, but it might also be the least responsive wheel you could buy.  I might consider a Veteran Sheman for a 2nd wheel if I found myself really wanting more range, but I'd want to gain a lot of experience before making a purchase like that.

My idea is to buy a wheel, learn to ride that wheel, ride that wheel, become confident and skilled riding that wheel, keep riding that wheel and gaining experience . . . then after that (and only after that) consider buying a 2nd wheel.  It could end up being more than a year after buying my first wheel that I actually buy a 2nd wheel, but that's fine.

After reading and considering the replies on this thread I'm very close to ordering a Tesla V2 with 1480Wh battery.  I think the range would be reasonable enough for a while and I can't really get any more range than that anyway, unless I buy a much heavier wheel, but that would be a worse thing to learn on.  I think the performance would be plenty for a while and I could be happy enough to keep on using a wheel like that until I've had plenty of time to improve my skills and confidence.

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Well, I haven't ordered yet - still considering options.  I'm not sure how long it might be before I will be happy to spend more money to buy a 2nd wheel, so I want to buy a wheel that will serve me well for some time.  In many ways I'd love to go with something with a big battery, therefore great range - but the weight and price hold me back from this.  I feel like range will be one thing that will limit me when I take a wheel out to explore.  Another thing that might limit me would be the maximum speed - initially I'll be happy to use settings to tilt back at moderate speeds for the sake of safety, but as I get better I'm likely to want to go faster (with my scooter I set it to maximum on day 1).

The Tesla V2 is still a contender with the 1480Ah battery option, but I'm wondering if I shouldn't consider pricier models and add on a bodyguard to minimise damage to the wheel while I learn.  I still don't want the weight or price of the Sherman, but maybe the RS19 C30 could be an option for a great general purpose wheel that could be used for a year or more (maybe even 2 or 3 years unless I find I really do need more range) without me feeling that I need to spend more money and buy another wheel.  This would mean spending more to start with, but could well be cheaper than buying a wheel and then 3 months later buying another one.

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I changed my mind. I vote the Veteran Sherman as the perfect 1st wheel! Proof of pudding is right below....

Granted she does have hmmm...more substantial shock absorbing material in case of a faceplant but regardless, if I'd seen this vid 1st, I'd get a Sherman for sure! She makes it look so easy, how difficult can it be😅. Yup no doubt, go for a Sherm as a learner & 1st wheel👍

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17 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

I changed my mind. I vote the Veteran Sherman as the perfect 1st wheel! Proof of pudding is right below....

Granted she does have hmmm...more substantial shock absorbing material in case of a faceplant but regardless, if I'd seen this vid 1st, I'd get a Sherman for sure! She makes it look so easy, how difficult can it be😅. Yup no doubt, go for a Sherm as a learner & 1st wheel👍

Youre joking right? Sherman as a first wheel?  Isnt it funny how things can seem so easy when you're watching a person who already knows how, do it. Obviously this aint her first rodeo. Look at her gear and the fact she has a channel for it. She's also riding with a selfie stick. This is not good evidence of anything pertaining to a 'new' rider.

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31 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Youre joking right? Sherman as a first wheel?  Isnt it funny how things can seem so easy when you're watching a person who already knows how, do it. Obviously this aint her first rodeo. Look at her gear and the fact she has a channel for it. She's also riding with a selfie stick. This is not good evidence of anything pertaining to a 'new' rider.

Ya I'm just having some fun as all. But seriously though, set the tiltback at a reasonable speed with alarms & all, the Sherm is just like any other wheel. Granted I have not ridden it but most feedback says its stable & planted with the weight down low(er). Pedal height isn't extreme with good length so mount/dismount should also be easier.

Learning on any wheel will not be simple for most peeps & I think a Sherm won't change that equation. There's just as good an argument for getting the wheel you want to start with as not. As always YMMV goes.

Edited by Scottie888
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18 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

Ya I'm just having some fun as all. But seriously though, set the tiltback at a reasonable speed with alarms & all, the Sherm is just like any other wheel. Granted I have not ridden it but most feedback says its stable & planted with the weight down low(er). Pedal height isn't extreme with good length so mount/dismount should also be easier.

Learning on any wheel will not be simple for most peeps & I think a Sherm won't change that equation. There's just as good an argument for getting the wheel you want to start with as not. As always YMMV goes.

not quite accurate. Its not the speed of the wheel, alone, that makes it differ. Even at very slow speeds, all 3 of mine behave differently. The sherman is by far the worst for slow speed and its got an odd pedal dip for any low speed turns. Coupled with the fact that it IS a little heavier and especially noticeable at mount/dismount and slow speeds, I stand behind my original argument. I love my sherman, but my 18L is superior in being a jack of all trades.  The Sherm is not easier to mount/dismount, as the weight applies. The mten is a little short to be very easy also. Again, my 18L hits a sweeter spot for that as well. Im sure other similar wheels would fare the same. Why would you want an 80lb $3k wheel to go slowly? I'm not saying anyone should buy an underpowered first wheel, but a good solid mid range, cost effective and comfortable wheel, makes a much better first invesment. Everyone needs a good  'all rounder'. For a first wheel, its pretty good idea to get one that can be ridden in lots of places and easily transported. For a touring wheel, the rules deifnitley change. Of course, some people do buy muscle cars for their first car and manage to not destroy it or themselves. Tho most of us start on something with a little less pep, cost and weight.... then commence to running into shit. Dont underestimate the value of comfort and portability for everyday use. If your day to day has stairs or involves much trolleying... you're screwed with the Sherm.  30mph is quite fast and on nice summer days, its usually unneccessary. Hell, you cant even hear the radio above 30mph anyhow. The best solution is to just buy 3 similar to mine (yup, Im biased) at the very beginning and quit your job to become an euc rider full time :)

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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TBH I vote the V5f as the perfect beginner/learner wheel. Question is what happens coupla weeks after? One would outgrow it so fast that it becomes boring as shaaat. As usual, everything's down to the individual even if others find different. After owning a few wheels, IMHO it wouldn't have made much difference which I started with. What I deem as easier or harder is a matter of personal adaptation & moreso for a specific individual.

The general consensus is a wider tire is more stable at low speeds but personally, I can ride my Tesla at 5mph just as well as on the Mten. So for me, its a matter of learning the characteristics of each wheel & adapting thru riding time. Knowing what I know now, I woulda started with a wheel I like & want to own longterm.

The journey from low to high is nice & all but as mentioned, there's also an argument to be made for starting at the top as well. Good or bad, easier or harder is relative & personal so there's that. Each to his/her own & YMMV as usual.

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In some ways I'd love to buy a Veteran Sherman and learn on that, but it is quite heavy with that huge battery.  Then there is the price . . . 

The RS is heavier than the 1480Wh Tesla V2, but not by all that huge an amount (27kg vs 22kg, the Sherman is 35kg) and the speed is the same if I choose to ride either at the same speed.  The price of the RS is quite a bit higher than the Tesla, but not as bad as the Sherman, it is around halfway between the other two in price.

If I were to buy something like a MCM5, then a couple of months later order an RS, that would be more expensive than buying an RS.  Same applies to any other wheel followed by an RS.  I really don't want to buy a wheel and then in a few weeks feel that I must buy another one.

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14 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

 I really don't want to buy a wheel and then in a few weeks feel that I must buy another one.

That is exactly what is going to happen, no matter which you buy. Its a sickness:barf:. Snag a good all rounder and youll not outgrow it. It will fill a need from early on until it finally dies. No one wheel rules them all and its a fools errand to chase that dream. Its not like I am planning on taking LONG high speed trips each timke I want to ride. Its also likely that at times I will. Sometimes I want ot just ride lazily to the mailbox. Sometimes I want to listen to music in comfort. Sometimes I want to let newbies crash a baby wheel. Each journey is different and no one wheel does it all. I dont know why everyone just assumes they will outgrow a wheel and no longer want to ride it. Quite the opposite. You grow INTO a wheel and enjoy riding it, even after the newness wears off. Carefull of the 'grass is greener', 'i gotta have the newest tech',  'one wheel to rule them all" mentalities.

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6 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Snag a good all rounder and youll not outgrow it. It will fill a need from early on until it finally dies.

 

That's where I feel that the RS would be good, I could ride around and explore different places, learning to ride and learning the wheel.  As my confidence, skill & experience grows I could increase the speed at which the tilt-back happens.  I could desire a longer range wheel, but there is a trade-off between weight and range because batteries are heavy - so a lighter wheel could be better when I don't need the range.  I don't think the RS would be very limiting and I suspect it would be a pretty good wheel to use until it dies.

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10 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

 

That's where I feel that the RS would be good, I could ride around and explore different places, learning to ride and learning the wheel.  As my confidence, skill & experience grows I could increase the speed at which the tilt-back happens.  I could desire a longer range wheel, but there is a trade-off between weight and range because batteries are heavy - so a lighter wheel could be better when I don't need the range.  I don't think the RS would be very limiting and I suspect it would be a pretty good wheel to use until it dies.

I set my tiltback at maximum speed from day one. As it unlocked, I raised it. You do know that YOU are ultimately in control of how fast you go...up to the limitations of the wheel? I've never understood why people like to 'govern' down a vehicle's ability, when all you have to do is CHOOSE to not go wide open. Maybe some people have less self control than I, but its a VERY scary thought if thats true. I looked over the RS, as I noticed it was one of the cheaper offerings. Specs seem decent as long as you pony up for the larger battery. Gotway makes a decent wheel. Quality is kind of in the middle, but I think they do pretty good at bang for your buck.

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7 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

You do know that YOU are ultimately in control of how fast you go...up to the limitations of the wheel? I've never understood why people like to 'govern' down a vehicle's ability, when all you have to do is CHOOSE to not go wide open. 

 

Well, I do know me and I don't trust me as far as I could throw me when it comes to governing my speed.  It's like when I'm having fun on my motorcycle . . . then I look at the speedo and think "oh dear, I really am going a LOT over the speed limit aren't I".  When I had a 1300cc V4 engine it didn't take a lot to exceed the speed limit and overtaking other vehicles was very quick & easy.  Now I ride a 1000cc parallel twin and it doesn't have quite the same power, but it is still capable of exceeding 200kph.

With my Mantis Pro scooter I checked through all the P settings to make sure they were on maximum and then I made sure I was in gear 3 and dual motor and turbo, but then again a scooter is easier to learn than an EUC.  I sometimes switch to a lower setting to get better range, I'm aware that I could give it less than 100% throttle, but I can't be trusted.

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 I  I really don't want to buy a wheel and then in a few weeks feel that I must buy another one.

As pertaining to ur remark here ,their is more than one thing to do on the wheel. You will be lucky to master a single wheel in a couple of years of riding. Any clown(I,m not calling u a clown) can ride fast in a straight line ,but can they ride backwards, onelegged, trail ride, jump, mount either leg, correct speed wobbles and tricks.The list go,s on.Pick a good mid-level entry euc and then down the track get couple more specific ones for the type of riding u enjoy the most. Dont get a Sherman !  yet!

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4 hours ago, Daley1 said:

Dont get a Sherman !  yet!

 

Definitely no danger of me buying a Sherman, not for a while at least.  I'm feeling too poor after ordering an RS C30 wheel.  The worst thing will be the wait for surface shipping from China (they can't air freight something with 1800Wh of Li-Ion batteries).  It should arrive by summer though, so I should be able to get some good riding in during the nice weather.

I'll order a neoprene bodyguard for the MSP which should fit, maybe with an extra hole or two needed for any relocated buttons - hopefully this will stop my new wheel from getting too beat up while I'm learning and dropping it.  I'll start off with the tilt-back set at a fairly slow speed because I don't want to get too carried away and go too fast while I'm getting the hang of controlling such an unfamiliar vehicle.

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I would say yea, go with the MTEN and if you decide you do not like EUC's you can always sell or return it without having spent a lot of cash on  it (600-1000 bucks is still a lot of cash but of the lesser degree for the MTEN :p )  (There is a possibility you may want another wheel after, so more money will be spent if you planned to upgrade from the mten........)

Honestly if you are determined you are going to get into EUC's and passionate to further your skills, I would go for something more expensive , but they will be heavier, bigger and more powerful. They do not look big on the videos but trust me, they are big and heavy! 

 

Based on personal experience i suggest the 16X to start with , solid investment, resale value is still great and still a sought after wheel. It is something you can learn and grow with and serve many needs and purposes. 

If budget is an issue, get a 16S instead, its lighter, smaller, nimbler but not as powerful as the 16X, it is just average.

 

Im getting a 3rd wheel already, so there is a possibility you might buy more than just one...or two..... :)

Edited by WILSON-YT
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On 9/26/2020 at 3:41 AM, ShanesPlanet said:

You do know that YOU are ultimately in control of how fast you go...

I generally think the same, but being an adrenaline and endorphin heavy sport, having limits you have set yourself while not riding maybe isn’t the worst of ideas.

I had ridden over 23000km over 3.5 years when I got my V11. Didn’t take long for me to realize that I was riding the V11 a good bit faster than the MSX, since the familiar speed limitations (bumps and shaking) were no longer there. For the same feeling of speed I had to go way faster. Us humans are very easy to fool.

On 10/2/2020 at 2:21 AM, WILSON-YT said:

If budget is an issue, get a 16S instead, its lighter, smaller, nimbler but not as powerful as the 16X, it is just average.

Calling the 16S “average” is interesting. Despite the added battery and the 2.5” tire mod, my 16S is my tiny wheel... :lol:

I might call the V10F “average”. Anything smaller in size, tire size, battery capacity or weight is a “small” EUC to me.

Man how the industry goes forward fast!

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On 9/23/2020 at 9:25 PM, null said:

While I wouldn't recommend starting with a huge and heavy wheel it isn't impossible either. It saves you a bunch of intermediate wheels. There is at guy over at the French forum that learned on a Sherman without any issue. ( Prolopolytoxico )

I wonder if a bigger machine isn`t in fact easier to learn on given that the mass of big machines will make them less prone to the jittery shakiness that often accompanies beginner riding? After being on a big machine (16X,MSP, etc.), an avg machine feels much more shaky and prone to slight balance shifts. So maybe bigger is better to learn on...

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9 minutes ago, amelanso said:

I wonder if a bigger machine isn`t in fact easier to learn on given that the mass of big machines will make them less prone to the jittery shakiness that often accompanies beginner riding? After being on a big machine (16X,MSP, etc.), an avg machine feels much more shaky and prone to slight balance shifts. So maybe bigger is better to learn on...

Indeed, maybe, the mass and height make it slower to fall. It takes more force to correct but if you learn that from the start of. The only issue is that its generally more expensive, but thats a different matter.

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On 10/5/2020 at 10:25 PM, amelanso said:

I wonder if a bigger machine isn`t in fact easier to learn on given that the mass of big machines will make them less prone to the jittery shakiness that often accompanies beginner riding? After being on a big machine (16X,MSP, etc.), an avg machine feels much more shaky and prone to slight balance shifts. So maybe bigger is better to learn on...

I agree. I learned on a shitty 350W 14'' wheel and then got a V10F.

IMO the V10F is definitely much easier to ride, it is even easier to step on even though the pedals are mounted much higher. I am a really heavy guy (290lbs) and the short 14'' wheel pressed into the inside of my right calf pretty brutally when I put all my weight on the pedal when mounting. My leg was a black and blue bruise there after the first two days and until I put some extra padding there.

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Was just thinking of just that because an old friend of my dad might borrow a wheel to learn on. The 16S would be plenty enough but the low and hard angle pads are not confortable for mounting. Considering he’s end 60s I’d rather not discourage him due to leg pain. The 18XL would be a better candidate, just need to wrap it properly. 

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While waiting for my RS, I've seen a Gotway MCM4 listed 2nd hand here.  Kinda tempted to grab it to learn on while I wait for the RS.  If I could get it for a good enough price then I wouldn't lose too much if I sold it after using it to learn and practise on.

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On 10/5/2020 at 10:25 PM, amelanso said:

So maybe bigger is better to learn on...

My V10F certainly feels easier to mount and to ride than my shitty old 350W 14'' wheel.

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On 10/5/2020 at 2:25 PM, amelanso said:

I wonder if a bigger machine isn`t in fact easier to learn on given that the mass of big machines will make them less prone to the jittery shakiness that often accompanies beginner riding? After being on a big machine (16X,MSP, etc.), an avg machine feels much more shaky and prone to slight balance shifts. So maybe bigger is better to learn on...

Once they're on the wheel, maybe, but this is forgetting the issue/challenge of new riders having to learn one-footed control which affects starting and stopping. Controlling a heavier wheel with one foot is more difficult and in particular more punishing for a new rider because if they are even slightly 'off' then the weight of the wheel pulls it over/lays it down.

This is why I think there's a sweet spot for learning in the V8F/KS-16S/V10F/Tesla range -- bigger & better than the tiny wheels for the reasons you mention, but still well-under 50 lbs at which point I think it poses the issues on the one-footed side of things.

(This also depends on rider weight. For me [~150lbs] and my gf [probably under 100lbs], something like the V8F/16S is a 'middle-sized' wheel, whereas the 14" wheels or mten3 are 'small' and the 50+ pound wheels are 'large'. I can see how for a 220lb rider or something like that, the V8F/16S would still be pretty small and something like the V10F @ 45lbs would be the bottom end of 'middle-sized' to them.)

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