Thinking of getting into EUCs

[KiwiMark]

I've been watching videos on Youtube and reading up on PEVs.  I bought a Kaabo Mantis Pro scooter and it is a hoot.  Now I'm thinking about trying out an EUC.  I'm looking at something for fun & exploring rather than daily commuting.

3 EUCs I like are: MTen3 (portability, ease of learning), Veteran Sherman (Speed, range, power) and Monster Pro (range, stability).  Of these 3 the MTen 3 would seem to be the best to start with and learn on, it would also be a great wheel to have available when I want something REALLY portable.  My scooter weighs around 30kg and I can only fit it into the back of the car with the rear seats folded down, the MTen3 weighs around 11kg and would fit almost anywhere!  The MTen 3 is also a lot cheaper than the other two I like and it seems like starting out spending not too much would be a good idea.

There is nothing stopping me from spending more later to get faster wheels with better range, but I've never ridden an EUC before and I don't want to go too crazy to start with.  I'd likely buy the 84V 512Ah version for as good a range as I could get on the little wheel.  I'm thinking that even after learning to ride and maybe buying something faster with a longer range, the MTen3 would still be a useful wheel to own for when I need something super portable, this would make my first wheel still useful beyond the learning period.

Thoughts, suggestions?  Would you guys suggest something different to start on?

[WebDev]

I think if you buy the MTen3 you will likely want to upgrade within a week.  If that's acceptable to you, then the MTen3 should be a great learning/easy to carry/quick travel wheel.

[Cychotic]

Although I never rode the MTen3, if you don't need the extreme end of portability, you should not get it.  You are better off getting a Tesla.  Also, smaller wheel doesn't mean ease of learning IMO.  The advantage is strictly portability.

[BruceCLin]

If you ever want to have multiple wheels, my opinion is that one should be a MTen3. It's such a fun wheel which I can mess around in a parking lot for hours. It just so different from a regular sized or larger wheel.

[KiwiMark]

57 minutes ago, BruceCLin said:

If you ever want to have multiple wheels, my opinion is that one should be a MTen3. It's such a fun wheel which I can mess around in a parking lot for hours. It just so different from a regular sized or larger wheel.

This is my thinking - I'd like to own a wheel with a really good range (like the Veteran Sherman) but before spending that kind of money I'd like to get a cheaper wheel that is lighter to learn on.  The MTen3 may be fun, but it is also a wheel that could be carried in a backpack, giving me a useful feature that other wheels that I might buy later wouldn't have.  That sort of portability is definitely something my scooter doesn't have.

I've looked at wheels like the MCM5, Tesla V2, Nikola Plus and it is easy to say that if I buy a Tesla V2, I'll then want to upgrade to a Nikola or whatever - there are always better wheels unless you start with the best wheel in existence.  That's why I'm looking not only as suitability to learn on but also a very useful feature (like fantastic portability) that a wheel has.

[toggeli]

Just one thought on the learning curve, I used a small Ninebot One S2 for learning, now I'am on an inmotion v10. The latter is much more stable and I'm sure I would have learned more rapidly on the v10. It's like for surf boards, you won't reasonably start with a tiny board but use a larger, stable one.

On the other hand a beginners wheel will definitely take some scars and scratches ...

[KiwiMark]

2 minutes ago, toggeli said:

Just one thought on the learning curve, I used a small Ninebot One S2 for learning, now I'am on an inmotion v10. The latter is much more stable and I'm sure I would have learned more rapidly on the v10. It's like for surf boards, you won't reasonably start with a tiny board but use a larger, stable one.

On the other hand a beginners wheel will definitely take some scars and scratches ...

 

Yes indeed, there are a number of wheels that I would consider getting to learn on, one big appeal of the MTen3 is the fact that it is the cheapest of the wheels that I'm looking at.  I'm also reluctant to buy a heavy wheel for my first wheel - too much risk of damage if a heavier wheel goes flying.  I kinda like the Tesla V2 as a first wheel, but then if I buy another wheel later I'm not sure what would make it worth keeping.

One factor for me is the limited 2nd hand market to sell to when changing wheels, EUCs aren't all that big a thing in this country.

[Hao Deng]

10 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

 

Yes indeed, there are a number of wheels that I would consider getting to learn on, one big appeal of the MTen3 is the fact that it is the cheapest of the wheels that I'm looking at.  I'm also reluctant to buy a heavy wheel for my first wheel - too much risk of damage if a heavier wheel goes flying.  I kinda like the Tesla V2 as a first wheel, but then if I buy another wheel later I'm not sure what would make it worth keeping.

One factor for me is the limited 2nd hand market to sell to when changing wheels, EUCs aren't all that big a thing in this country.

I bought the MTen3 for exactly the same reason as you. Cheap, light and I can keep it even if I get a bigger one in the future.  I purchased a 67v version and it hasn't arrived yet. Hopefully within two weeks. I'm so looking forward to it.

I'm not gonna use it for daily commute since no wheels are big/powerful enough to do that in Texas. I've already purchased the foam to protect it. I also want my 3.5 year old daughter to ride on it after maybe 1 or 2 years. And I can upgrade to a bigger one if necessary.  

 

[mrelwood]

There are two practical ways of choosing your first EUC. 1) A cheap learner for a few weeks, then buy a “real” wheel. 2) Buy a “real” wheel right away, and pad it up well for the first few weeks.

 But even with the second method, I would forget the Sherman and especially the Monster. They are specialized models, and lack in some areas that you might need. Once the EUC has found it’s way to your lifestyle and you know how and where you want to use it, then you are much better equipped to consider which traits you are able to give up on. Granted, the first method doesn’t equip you very well in a few weeks either, but hopefully you will then have at least some ideas.

 While there are always “better” models available, the offerings are not on a straight line from bad to good. A medium class wheel (Tesla, V10F, etc) serve many riders for years without even having a true urge to upgrade. Everybody don’t want an EUC to go 100km on a charge topping at 60km/h. After three months on a medium class wheel, you would quite probably know if you do.

Mten is a really fun wheel to toy around with. But it’s a bad choice if you want to go anywhere on bad or unpaved roads. If you like the idea of toying around in the parking lot, Mten should be at the top of your list. But if you don’t have a place to play with it close to your house and your first priority is to get to town 10km away, or if you are a heavier guy, I’d recommend something else even as your first wheel. Tesla, V10F or 16S, depending on what kinds of deals you’ll find, should serve you much better.

 Check the used markets first though, local and international alike. Many riders have gotten great deals, when a medium class wheel has successfully served the previous owner as a waypoint to something newer.

 But, these are just thoughts that came to my mind when reading your post. There are lots of factors that you have to consider, which we are just trying to guess at this point.

[redsnapper]

i agree with @mrelwood - as a primary wheel mten3 is not a good choice imo. a small diameter wheel is harder to learn on and is more apt to throw u when dealing with uneven terrain, pot holes, ledges. As a 1st wheel a 16" is   a much better choice. Monster and Sherman are other end of spectrum! Try lifting these into a shopping cart at grocery store! Why not start with a middle of the road wheel that offers decent portability, agility, range, speed and stability ( ks16,v8/10,etc)?  funny how quickly the market involved - v10 now a middle of rd euc!

Used euc is good but u hv to be smart abt transaction or u can get burned ( use ppal, get detailed pics showing unit, stats, etc. ). If u can buy from seller on forum with some reputation/history, much safer.  Some veteran users r cycling wheels often like @Eric plam

No matter wt wheel u choose u will soon b looking at others - it's a delicious madness...

[.....]

I have wheels ranging from small to big.  Get the idea of a Sherman as your first wheel, out of your head. Ihave a Sherman and love it. It is very heavy and it seems to be a tad on the dangerous side, as far as a newbie riding around on it. I also have an Mten. I like it just as much but for different reason. I also have  KS18L and I love it too. Of the 3, I can honestly say that the 18L would be more of a wheel that can tackle many tasks.  If i coud have just one of them, it would probably still be the 18.  The lack of portability, price and weight of the Sherman kind of makes it a one trick pony. Now it does that one trick MUCH better than any other I've ridden, but its a long range wheel that isnt very suitable for small jaunts or journeys that include stairs or public tansport. The mten has a useful range of 10 miles or so. It can be stowed almost anywhere and it is way more affordable.  I just got asked about what to buy as a first wheel, and I somehow leaned towards the mten. I think I suggested it, as it is a good solid wheel that you will use all the time. Its a wheel that won't break the bank, and should euc not be for you, it can be sold (and shipped) pretty damn easily. I think the 18 is a little easier to learn on, but once learned, that detail doesnt matter one bit. Since i see you are leaning towards the mten, I'd say go for it! Don't let its size fool you, it is a VERY capable wheel and whats best about it is, you can just grab it and go. I can't really say I have a favorite of the 3 I have, as they all do things in such a different way. I can ride each of them well, so that's not the factor to focus on.

I don't think I've helped much. You've asked a very important question, but one I find that gets harder and harder to answer, as I ride more and more. You really need to ask yourself what you are getting it for, primarily. There are a lot fo good wheels nowadays, but i would stay away from anything that is brand new. There's no reason to jump into one of these newest designs, if you havent any wheels yet. Like said before, you will wind up having more than one, so perhaps decide which trait is MOST important to you, for the task you have in mind, right now.  If you are looking for a sleek, refined and jack of all trades, look into the ks18Xl or 18L, and wheels of similar.  To me, it sounds like you need an mten. You already know that you may get more than one. You already seem to know what it's good for. Snag that little bitch (i have the smallest version) and you wont be sorry.  If you are a very large and heavy person (im 6'3 130lbs), maybe the mten won't suit you. But if you can ride a scooter, the mten wont disappoint, its very capable. 

[KiwiMark]

I'm keen on a MTen3, but haven't decided to order one yet, if I had already decided then there wouldn't have been any point in starting this thread to get opinions from experienced riders.  I can see benefits of the portability of the MTen3, but there are also limitations with the small size and the largest available battery only being 512Wh.

I like the Sherman & Monster for their impressive range, but they are too much money for a newbie like me and too heavy & dangerous to be sensible learning wheels.  I might buy one or both, maybe - but it won't be anytime soon, and not before I'm a reasonably experienced rider.

Another option would be to go with something like the Tesla V2 with the 1500Wh battery.  This would be decently capable in terms of power, speed & range and maybe I'd use it for a much longer time than for a MTen3.  It is dearer than the MTen3, but it isn't crazy expensive (less than half the price of a Veteran Sherman).  I could buy a MTen3 later, so I'd have a more portable wheel.  Maybe I'd be able to get a good idea of what I'd like to have next if I started on a Tesla V2 (more range, more portable, more speed, more power, bigger wheel, better off-road, etc).  The Tesla V2 is around 22kg which is about double the weight of the MTen3, but it is still lighter than my 30kg scooter.  The 16" wheel seems like it would be a good middle size with 10" & 14" wheels available on the smaller end and 18-19" wheels available at the bigger end (then there's the Monster).

For purchasing there is pretty much nothing available second hand in this country and very little available new.  I'd most likely buy a wheel from the AliExpress store I got my scooter from.  The pricing from them for EUCs I've looked at look like this: MTen3 84V 512Ah - NZ$1250, Tesla V2 84V 1500aH - NZ$1775, Veteran Sherman - NZ$4200.  Clearly the Sherman is a really big jump up in price, but the Tesla V2 (with biggest battery option) isn't a huge amount more money than the MTen3 at less than 50% more (compared to the Sherman costing more than 3x as much).

So now I'm starting to lean towards the Tesla V2 with 1500Wh battery - thinking that this may give me a longer gap before feeling that I just HAVE to get another wheel.  My second wheel would then depend on whether I really feel the need for more portability or maybe the need for more range or whatever I might decide.  Adding a more portable wheel later (MTen3) at least would not cost all that much, making it not too hard to go from owning one wheel to owning two.

[.....]

You won't outgrow the mten,tho you have very valid points. What do you consider experienced? Im a general noob I think. I've about 6-8 months (have to check) and 1,000 miles across my 3 wheels.  Its all relative I suspect. I still remember day one, however. It was a total fukn disaster, I can tell you that much.

Edited September 22, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Scottie888]

I learnt the trade on a Tesla 1480 this late spring. Then I picked up an Mten3 & it was twitchy as f*^k. It was almost as if I had to relearn how to ride. I swear the if I had started with the Mten, I'd have a heck of a time learning on a larger wheel. That said, its a keeper as a last mile commuter & just a fun 'round the hood chore machine. Once I got used to it, the Mten3 replaced my legs as I swear I won't ever have to walk again!!! 

However if I had to redo it all over again, I'd likely pick the new MCM5 V2 as my 1st learner & keeper wheel. It's smaller enough (& with a trolley) to take anywhere & it's light enough to haul it up a coupla flights of stairs. It's powerful & fast to have loads of fun & has enough range to go places.

I think its the perfect wheel to start with esp if one has the ambition to upgrade to larger & faster wheels.

[KiwiMark]

34 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

However if I had to redo it all over again, I'd likely pick the new MCM5 V2 as my 1st learner & keeper wheel. It's smaller enough (& with a trolley) to take anywhere & it's light enough to haul it up a coupla flights of stairs. It's powerful & fast to have loads of fun & has enough range to go places.

I think its the perfect wheel to start with esp if one has the ambition to upgrade to larger & faster wheels.

 

This is another one I've considered, but I think I want more range.  I see it as a viable alternative to the MTen3 for a more portable wheel if maybe the range on the MTen3 just wouldn't be enough.  From the length of rides I've done on my scooter I can see myself wanting as much or more range - this is part of what appeals to me about the Veteran Sherman and the Monster (or even Monster Pro).

[KiwiMark]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

What do you consider experienced?

 

Well, I've had 0 months experience and ridden 0 miles - so it definitely isn't me.  I think I'd have to feel comfortable and confident on a wheel like the Tesla before I'd consider ordering the Sherman.  I could go with the Tesla V2 as my first wheel and the MTen3 as my 2nd wheel and once I am confident on both of those then I might consider a heavier long range wheel - I don't know how long that would take, it could be more than a year after getting my first wheel.

[helmet]

The people who share on this forum are so rare, and the information is extremely important. There's just not much information out there about EUC's. In a way I suspect us consumers are not the primary target market for these devices, rather, Chinese Carnivals or something that an entity might keep around for those special times.

That being said, I am really pleased with my Inmotion V10F. It provides me with a great deal of happiness, which is the vision of Inmotion as a company. I bought a used King Song 14D on ebay to learn on, however, the Inmotion is a far superior product. I would have been happy to have just learned on the V10F and kept it around for special happy times.

[Crooznfbroozn]

I'll paint you a picture. My V5F didn't last a month. An upgrade was required after that.

Rather than performance I'd suggest looking at use case. These wheels have different characteristics and use cases. You could aim for going for a niche use for cheaps to begin, get an idea of what it is you want to do with it and then buy a longer term wheel.

I didn't pick up your use case other than you want to try it? If it were "I commute x amount of km" or "I want off-road" or even "I want to roll for x amount of time without charging"...

There are hidden costs as well, that is, in safety gear. A V5F felt fine with just a helmet and wrist guards.. the top end stuff I'd strongly suggest wrapping yourself in protective gear.

Mten3 is generally said to still be used after upgrading, I can tell you I won't be using my V5F now that I've upgraded as it doesn't have a strong benefit other than being light. So, I suggest an mten3 (tricks in the park), an MCM5 v2 (light and freaky) or maybe a V8F (commutery, safe, yet powerful enough to check some boxes for small runs) as these are generally cheaper wheels that go from very niche to not too weak as a starter resp.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Crooznfbroozn

[KiwiMark]

The safety gear isn't a problem, I can just use my motorcycle gear and I've also bought wrist protectors.

My use case is mainly to go out exploring, I'd like a decent range so I could ride 40+ km (over 25 miles) at a normal riding speed.  The more I think about what I'd like to do the more I think that the Tesla V2 would be a better choice for learning and general usage.  If I decide I really do need a super portable wheel then I could buy a MTen3 later.  If I decide I want a super long range wheel later - there are definitely a few options there.

[Daley1]

I think peoples first wheel tends to get beaten up ,smashed and scratched up. Apply that to ur thinking .A 16 inch is a good balance of a wheel portability and nimbleness.  U wont need a long range or fast wheel straight away.U need something to practice ur skills on, that's not going to feed u to the god of Asphalt. @Rolls.nz is a local supplier and he could probably hook u up!

 

[.....]

7 minutes ago, Daley1 said:

I think peoples first wheel tends to get beaten up ,smashed and scratched up. Apply that to ur thinking .A 16 inch is a good balance of a wheel portability and nimbleness.  U wont need a long range or fast wheel straight away.U need something to practice ur skills on, that's not going to feed u to the god of Asphalt. @Rolls.nz is a local supplier and he could probably hook u up!

 

I  must be a minority. My first wheel was an 18L. I put a rollNZ cover on it  and it looks damn good still after near 1,000 miles. Its been dropped, rolled, beaten, slid, that RollNZ cover is both comfy and protective.

@KiwiMark  Blue jeans and t-shirt makes for good gear in the summer. YOu may want to add a jacket for winter.   Motorcycle gear is usually quite a bit overkill, heavy and expensive. If you are so inclined, perhaps look at bicycle and skateboard gear, as its much better fitting for the slow world of euc riding. Even on my sherman ( I still maintain that it is NOT a good all rounder or first wheel), my motorcycle gear is just too damn much cost and weight. Most of the decent wheels can do 25 miles. Don't underestimate it tho. I can empty my 18L in 30 miles and I'm just warmed up. Same with speeds. You may think a wheel is fast enough...until you ride it for a while. I swore I'd never need to go faster than 30 mph. I was wrong, the forum members were right.  as @maslorithm mentioned, there are a few people here that have been exactly where you are right now. Actually, MOST of us have been. Absorb all the info that seems to apply and make sense. A good 16" wheel would also make a good all rounder. You are currently in luck, as a lot of people are making the grave mistake of selling their reliable wheels as they try to chase "the grass is greener" with the newest and latest flavor. Here's a hint... the newest offerings aren't a good investment for a new rider, and you'd be smarter buying a proven wheel at a great price, from a person you can trust.  Those big wheels you keep referring to... they won't be the only BIG players on the block forever. By the time you may need to step up to a 'purpose built' wheel, there may be many other choices. With any luck, there will be some BIG wheel offering at that time, as people again, sell their proven design to roll the dice on greener grasses.

 

[Scottie888]

10 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

The safety gear isn't a problem, I can just use my motorcycle gear and I've also bought wrist protectors.

My use case is mainly to go out exploring, I'd like a decent range so I could ride 40+ km (over 25 miles) at a normal riding speed.  The more I think about what I'd like to do the more I think that the Tesla V2 would be a better choice for learning and general usage.  If I decide I really do need a super portable wheel then I could buy a MTen3 later.  If I decide I want a super long range wheel later - there are definitely a few options there.

That was precisely my thinking & that was exactly what I went with. No doubt, the Tesla V2 is well proven, reliable & in the 1480/1500 form, an almost perfect city commuter/explorer. Since late spring, I've found bike paths to areas of the city that I've never thought existed & the journey was/is wunderbar!.

However knowing what I know now, if I had to do it all over again, I'd pick the current MCM5 V2 instead. As a starter wheel, its smaller, lighter & has a usable trolley. It has enough power to go up most asphalt inclines & accelerates like a bat outta hell with a topend of close to 30mph. Range is mehhh but hey, its a starter wheel. Most importantly since I have ambitions of aggressive offroad adventuring, the MCM5 now has a 2.5" tire, higher pedal/frame height & (I'm assuming) with a less weight, less effort for quick maneuvers needed for tight trails - all of which the Tesla isn't. The Tesla is great for asphalt/tarmac but not so much for the dirty stuff.

While the Mten3 is much smaller, I think the MCM5 can fit that bumming around the hood doing tricks role as well but ofcos, fughitbout tossing it in the backpack. Once the requisite skills are in sight, I can then easily upgrade to a V11 or an RS or whatever I'd enjoy after understand my needs/wants.

All's I'm saying is that as a newb, the path can be foggy. Only with some time enhanced with experience can the road to Nirvana be clearer. For me, I think the journey will be easier (on the wallet as well) if I had started with the current MCM5 V2. YMMV ofcos.

As for perfect clothing, being an ex motorcyclist, I have a coupla leftover armored mesh jackets (plus other heavier leatherwear). The mesh jackets flows so much air that I am comfortable even in 30c weather so long as I'm moving. Besides armor, the jacket also has anti abrasion material ie.anti roadrash. I now feel naakked without it!

[AtlasP]

Media 'influencers' & vocal forum participants take note: if after some preliminary 'research' (likely centered around youtube videos and reading the forums) new people are being lead to think that any of those three wheels are where they should start, then you/we as a community are doing something very wrong. Virtually any other wheel in between the listed extremes would be a better recommendation for a new rider--seriously, one could throw a dart at all remaining options and end up with a better starting point.

Edited September 25, 2020 by AtlasP

[redsnapper]

I dont think this is typical of most euc 1st timers or representative of anything really. I think many experienced riders would discourage these as a starter wheel  - especially the Sherman/Monster. 

Maybe @KiwiMark can explain how this very odd trio came to be his starting point?     

Edited September 24, 2020 by amelanso

[null]

While I wouldn't recommend starting with a huge and heavy wheel it isn't impossible either. It saves you a bunch of intermediate wheels. There is at guy over at the French forum that learned on a Sherman without any issue. ( Prolopolytoxico )

Edited September 24, 2020 by null