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not easy to do something like this, there are so many factors that influence the beeps.

from my experience there's a 10km/h buffer before pedal dip/cut, i think you can easy add 5km/h on top of beeps, after that you'll be in the danger zone.
i'm watching the doc, there are some little variation to mspt that can be done

 

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2 minutes ago, EMA said:

not easy to do something like this, there are so many factors that influence the beeps.

from my experience there's a 10km/h buffer before pedal dip/cut, i think you can easy add 5km/h on top of beeps, after that you'll be in the danger zone.
i'm watching the doc, there are some little variation to mspt that can be done

 

Hello EMA! I was expecting you. :)

I agree that there are many factors that influence the beeps so it is preferable to follow the beeps.
However for people searching for upper limits it would be nice to have a safe upper limit.. rather than overlean above the beeps.
We will always push the beeps.. it's just a matter of time.

I just went for a ride on the MSP and I was able to hit 64 kmh without any trouble.
I used Darknessbot smart alarm set to 64kmh... there was some delay before the alarm hit. I was beeping along at~59kmh and then pushed gently until Darknessbot went off.

I then tried the alarm set at 58kmh for 100% and it scaled nicely coinciding with the beeps at around 52kmh and 55% battery.

66kg riding weight... 7m/s wind today.

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i'm on EUC World and there's a lot of difference in battery % with darknessbot, i'm facing this with a friend , even at the same voltage :(
 

don't know how darknessbot smart alarm works, on EUCw alarms are triggered istant when you reach the selected speed, i've moved the buzzer outside to better understand the wheel :thumbup:

i still think 5km/h above the beeps is always possible, but you always need to consider wind, slope and the acceleration you put into .

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14 minutes ago, EMA said:

i'm on EUC World and there's a lot of difference in battery % with darknessbot, i'm facing this with a friend , even at the same voltage :(
 

don't know how darknessbot smart alarm works, on EUCw alarms are triggered istant when you reach the selected speed, i've moved the buzzer outside to better understand the wheel :thumbup:

i still think 5km/h above the beeps is always possible, but you always need to consider wind, slope and the acceleration you put into .

Which battery algorithm are you using? My battery % is based on voltage and I prefer to go by voltage normally. But % is more friendly.

Darknessbot smart alarm starts at 100% and goes down to 80% of the top assigned speed at 0% battery. So just a linear decrease.
As you say it won't match with the 5 beeps on non-normal condition then we are better off following the beeps.

As you say 5kmh above is possible... and I try to express that in % instead. As 5kmh above the 5 beeps on the MCM5 and 5kmh above the beeps on the MSP could be different.

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On another note.. Tobias just reported he hit 71.3 kmh on his Nikola while going home from work.
Guess he was in a hurry lol.

73% battery, 100kg rider, some tailwind. :efefc8626c:
At that battery % it should beep at 60-61kmh. Not the first time he has done this though.. and yeah seated as well.

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really hurry !:ph34r:

tailwind and seated makes the difference but damn 71km/h on 70% battery was really risky

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Very interesting sheet there Mike, cheers.

I think it would be nice if the GW beep went to a solid, uninterrupted beep at your 90% figure. That would be handy.

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7 hours ago, zege said:

Anyone knows roughly how much of a difference seated riding do to the top speed?

no easy to quantify but the amount of wind you take makes your battery struggle more, could be 2-3 km/h easy

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7 hours ago, zege said:

Anyone knows roughly how much of a difference seated riding do to the top speed?

 

16 minutes ago, EMA said:

no easy to quantify but the amount of wind you take makes your battery struggle more, could be 2-3 km/h easy

Yes.. I have confirmed this tucking. Wind resistance is brutal after 50kmh.

I have played a lot with this calculator:

http://bikecalculator.com/what.html

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23 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Very interesting sheet there Mike, cheers.

I think it would be nice if the GW beep went to a solid, uninterrupted beep at your 90% figure. That would be handy.

That's a great idea!

The sheet is mathematical so the cut-off speeds could be a bit lower due to increased wind resistance.
And then we have all the other factors. Many of the numbers do coincide with what riders have reported.
And voltage does drop quite rapidly at high speeds especially on the 24s4p wheels.

So one can never expect the 100% cutoff speeds but the safe speeds are pretty much correct and have been exceeded by riders.

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Yeah it's nice to know theres a reasonable amount in reserve. I still think I will remain a 'beep and ease off' person though, I always seem to poop my pants when the 80% lunacy meter (as my brother calls it) goes off, even now. I wouldn't want to fail the ladies either by smashing up my slightly scrawny, slightly floppy mid-riffed, slightly over middle-aged body of a temple.

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9 hours ago, zege said:

Anyone knows roughly how much of a difference seated riding do to the top speed?

I feel like people underestimate how much of a difference this makes (coming from a guy that's only ridden an MCM5 and has never ridden seated). But here is a graph that shows how much power is required to maintain speed on a bicycle.

1349272528_download(1).png.ece576dc6d27873dcfa30b33dc4c87ab.png

As you can see, at high speed the most power loss is due to air drag. And since aerodynamic drag is roughly proportional to frontal surface area, I would suspect that the difference between riding seating or standing (or other changes in stance) would require vastly different amounts of power. 

Here is another calculator if you want to try coming up with the numbers yourself.

https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html#:~:text=A net headwind of 17.26,you 2.48 watts of power.

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On 9/10/2020 at 1:07 AM, Planemo said:

Yeah it's nice to know theres a reasonable amount in reserve. I still think I will remain a 'beep and ease off' person though, I always seem to poop my pants when the 80% lunacy meter (as my brother calls it) goes off, even now. I wouldn't want to fail the ladies either by smashing up my slightly scrawny, slightly floppy mid-riffed, slightly over middle-aged body of a temple.

Haha yes I agree. I even set my alarm a bit more conservatively to 62kmh / Smart Alarm for the Nik+ so it will go off even a tiny bit before the 5 beeps (most of the time).

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Wind and incline influence power output much more than you think.

At those speed's the wind direction/speed could change your functional max speed by +/-10km/h or more even. That's like a 65 km/h cutoff with a headwind and 85 km/h cutoff with a tailwind.

In any case. It's best not to push the limit.

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Agreed, thats the problem with riding beyond the beeps, and a factor which some riders don't take into account. If you are say 5mph over the beeps and hit a big bump or a sudden gust of headwind, the battery % could drop significantly enough for the wheel to correlate issuing a much lower top speed limit (as it would do if the batt % was much lower to start with). In this case, the wheel would cut out.

Riding only up to the beeps gives enough headroom for most unforeseen circumstances. For the wheel to cut out when sitting at the 80% beep would take a pretty big unforeseen circumstance IMO. Even so, you really gotta scan the surface like a hawk at 40+ mph.

I would only ride beyond the beeps if weather conditions and terrain were extremely stable, there was no chance of people/cars getting in the way and the surface preferably checked out with a recce run beforehand. Given that I don't usually ride under such circumstances, I don't go beyond the beeps :)

 

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4 hours ago, Planemo said:

Agreed, thats the problem with riding beyond the beeps, and a factor which some riders don't take into account. If you are say 5mph over the beeps and hit a big bump or a sudden gust of headwind, the battery % could drop significantly enough for the wheel to correlate issuing a much lower top speed limit (as it would do if the batt % was much lower to start with). In this case, the wheel would cut out.

Riding only up to the beeps gives enough headroom for most unforeseen circumstances. For the wheel to cut out when sitting at the 80% beep would take a pretty big unforeseen circumstance IMO. Even so, you really gotta scan the surface like a hawk at 40+ mph.

I would only ride beyond the beeps if weather conditions and terrain were extremely stable, there was no chance of people/cars getting in the way and the surface preferably checked out with a recce run beforehand. Given that I don't usually ride under such circumstances, I don't go beyond the beeps :)

 

agree 110% this is something i've seen a lot of times riding my mten close to the beeps :)

this was recorded yesterday with negative slope and battery around 75%, beeps around 58-59 i think: https://photos.app.goo.gl/k4DSbAmNqoxV5cHC6

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  • 4 weeks later...

Really cool stuff, Mike! Fastest I've gone on my Nik is 35 mph. Plenty fast enough for me! I guess I cannot provide usefull data. The Nik is doing great. Two questions for you: 1) I would like to know about Tobias's seat on his Nik. My seat attempts have sucked. 2) I had to reinstall Darknessbot on my iPhone. Darknessbot app lost its calibration. So no pedal tilt adjustment. I still can calibrate through the older Gotway app, yet not the Darknessbot app. Puzzling. Peace, my friend...Guy

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5 hours ago, Guy said:

Really cool stuff, Mike! Fastest I've gone on my Nik is 35 mph. Plenty fast enough for me! I guess I cannot provide usefull data. The Nik is doing great. Two questions for you: 1) I would like to know about Tobias's seat on his Nik. My seat attempts have sucked. 2) I had to reinstall Darknessbot on my iPhone. Darknessbot app lost its calibration. So no pedal tilt adjustment. I still can calibrate through the older Gotway app, yet not the Darknessbot app. Puzzling. Peace, my friend...Guy

Thanks Guy!

I have plenty of data for the Nikola now anyway. :)
1800Wh version, 2660Wh Loomo version and 2664Wh 1Rad version. Personally I have not gone faster than 40 mph on it. Plenty of my friends have though.
 

I pm:ed Tobias just now to ask him more about his bicycle seat on his Nik.
I never use third party apps for hardware settings.  I just use Darknessbot to monitor speed and battery.

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  • 3 weeks later...

the top speed on my MSP 2500w is 36mph

It always seems to beep at 35 but this day I didn't hear it beep which could be due to the wind. It's honestly hard for me to imagine going faster than that but It's cool to know it still has some if it's needed. After a few big falls on my KS 16x, I've learned to respect the beep.

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I've found the upper limit of 30km/h and > 30% battery pretty safe on my Nik+.  No cutouts ever :D I have the 1800wh/21700 version

Edited by /Dev/Null
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1 hour ago, Giffy said:

the top speed on my MSP 2500w is 36mph

It always seems to beep at 35 

I don't see how the beep is 'always' at 35mph as it's dependant on battery %. I would imagine that 35/36mph is with a virtually full battery (it will never be full once you start riding at 35mph lol...)

The top speed/beep will be a lot lower at low battery %...be careful....

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10 hours ago, Giffy said:

the top speed on my MSP 2500w is 36mph

It always seems to beep at 35 but this day I didn't hear it beep which could be due to the wind. It's honestly hard for me to imagine going faster than that but It's cool to know it still has some if it's needed. After a few big falls on my KS 16x, I've learned to respect the beep.

make sure you could listen the beep, btw it weird you beep at 35 ? tire pressure really low ?

torque msp beep at 38 and hit easy and safe 40.

this is a short group ride with some interesting speed burst, hit 63 the first time and 3-4 times 60 going downhill later, red points:

https://euc.world/tour/591650799676228

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13 hours ago, Planemo said:

I don't see how the beep is 'always' at 35mph as it's dependant on battery %. I would imagine that 35/36mph is with a virtually full battery (it will never be full once you start riding at 35mph lol...)

The top speed/beep will be a lot lower at low battery %...be careful....

Good point, It might just be that I never pushed it unless it was above 75% battery anyway and so the beep was pretty constant. (ya, the battery drains very quickly at those speeds especially if I hold them for any length of time lol)

4 hours ago, EMA said:

make sure you could listen the beep, btw it weird you beep at 35 ? tire pressure really low ?

torque msp beep at 38 and hit easy and safe 40.

this is a short group ride with some interesting speed burst, hit 63 the first time and 3-4 times 60 going downhill later, red points:

https://euc.world/tour/591650799676228

My biggest fear is not hearing the beeps. I need some sort of warning that isn't audio biased. I would set the EUC World app to vibrate if it gave me the option to set the warning to 80% power that is built into the Gotways. I wonder if there is an app that I can put on my smart watch and then mount it to the visor of my helmet 🤔

Tire pressure is usually around 26-28psi. I go off road a lot and like the little extra traction. 
It's cool to see that it's capable of more than I expect it is. Riding around Rome, that must be absolutely amazing!

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