Inmotion V11 or Veteran Sherman? And why?

[Thatmustache]

If you could choose one of these wheels, which one would you pick and why? And for those who already have one, what made you pick one over the other? They both look really good for what seems like different strengths for each one. I'm wondering which one of these wins the "wheel of the year" award. Your input would be very welcome!

[Spooky Chaser]

I'm only coming in as someone who just put an order down for the V11, but both wheels seem like they're used for different purposes. The main factors:

• Suspension vs Top speed/bigger motor: 34mph compared to 55+ means if you're a speed demon it's a no brainer. I was looking for a good cruiser wheel and every review of a suspension wheel has been that when tuned correctly, it it smoother on all surfaces on and off road than a non-suspension wheel.
• Cost: It's almost $1k difference between both wheels, and the Sherman definitely has higher stats and is made of much tougher material to show for it. If you're using an EUC to replace your car and need to ride 70+ miles on one charge, a Sherman is great. It's also 17lbs heavier than an already very heavy wheel, so lighter or older riders need to think of how often it might have to be picked up.

[Meserias]

VSherman it's not for streets in my opinion - way to bulky and very heavy - no trolley handle ! - knobby tire it's also not very comfortable and also noisy on tarmac
V11 - also quite heavy but streets ready - for not so long rides but very comfortable feel as I understand.

NOTE: KS18XL already have an excellent range (I love the range of mine)
planning already for next suspension wheel

 

LATER EDIT: above - "no trolley handle" meaning you can't lift it off the ground using stock trolley - it will not hold.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Meserias

[( _ ) Alexey]

Watch these if you haven’t:

 

I have no personal experience with any of these, but I rode Z10 and I daily ride V10F.

I think 27kg of V11 is the heaviest I personally will want to go. 35kg of Sherman makes sense to me only if I absolutely must have either the speed of it or the range and I don’t need either.

I think the wheel should be:

1. The most reliable available. I will not ride any wheel that has non-negligible failure rate as my health directly depends on it.

2. The lightest possible for the speed and the range I usually ride, even switching from V8 to V10F required me to pay attention to how I lift it into the trunk of my car to avoid back injuries. 35kg will most likely be very problematic to load into the car.

3. Then come convenience, looks and price.

 

The faster the wheel - the more chance there is for injury or damage in case of an accident.

The heavier the wheel - the more 3rd party damage there will potentially be in case of an accident.

For me - a heavy and a fast wheel is looking for trouble in the urban area where I live, I prefer to avoid it. But in suburbs that could be less of a problem.

Both of these wheels are “high end”, meaning they are less “universal” daily riders than let’s say a V8 and more specialized, especially Sherman, so for me picking one of them would depend on my specific needs and preferences.

I do want a V11 but would not pick Sherman for my needs.

[UniVehje]

Very different wheels. I don't really see these as alternatives to each other. I bought a V11 and didn't even consider the Sherman. I think you really need to know why you need the Sherman. Usually it's speed. I can see no other practical and real life benefits over the V11. Even the range is overkill as very few people have the stamina to ride that long. It's heavy, bulky and uncomfortable for normal day-to-day riding. Unless you really need to ride faster than 50 km/h for long periods or ride 100+ kilometres weekly, you would be better off with a cheaper V11. You might even be able to keep higher average speeds on rough terrain because of suspension. The Sherman is not a bad wheel. I quite like it actually. But it's just a very specialised wheel and all the main benefits come with costs (weight, practicality etc.). And, having experienced the suspension, I would not want to buy a wheel without it anymore.  

[Daniel-Son]

It’s like comparing a Honda Accord with a Ford raptor. One is a safe and smooth cruiser and the other is raw beast bruiser! Pick your poison. 

34 minutes ago, Meserias said:

- no trolley handle !

It really does have one. 

[null]

41 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

uncomfortable for normal day-to-day riding. 

Have you tried it? 
Because every single reviewer I've seen has found it a pleasure to ride.

Regarding range I regularly run down my 18XL battery, as for whether my use case is insignificant part is speculation.

I'm not saying the Sherman is a wheel for everyone, however some of the critique here is baseless. No trolley handle? 

To get back to OP: I chose mine mainly for range as I do a lot of long range trips. The speed will be a bonus to keep pace with cars in the city traffic. I use a 16S for smaller trips to restaurants and whatnot as it is less cumbersome than an 18inch wheel.
As for wheel of the year I'd say people are too different for there to be one wheel of the year. We have different needs and priorities.

Edited August 31, 2020 by null

[UniVehje]

4 minutes ago, null said:

Have you tried it? 
Because every single reviewer I've seen has found it a pleasure to ride.

Regarding range I regularly run down my 18XL battery, as for whether I represent an insignificant part of users is speculation.

I have not tried it. And didn't mean how it feels to ride, more how it feels to live with in day-to-day setting. As in taking it on a bus, lifting up stairs etc. Sorry for unclear wording. (Although I would predict the riding part would be more comfortable on a V11 also)

For you the Sherman range might be useful. But does it really need to be 3200 Wh and 35 kg? To me these monster batteries seem like trying to win a spec sheet war without any consideration to practicality. I get that some people really want that battery and it's ok. I do a lot of long distance riding and still don't want that battery. I just don't want to carry it around everywhere I go with the wheel. Reminds me of that Energizer phone pictured here. Everybody wanted a bigger battery but at some point it's just too much to fit in your pocket. I would like to once again refer to the law of diminishing return. 

[Meserias]

30 minutes ago, Daniel-Son said:

It’s like comparing a Honda Accord with a Ford raptor. One is a safe and smooth cruiser and the other is raw beast bruiser! Pick your poison. 

It really does have one. 

you can't lift the wheel off the ground using stock VSherman trolley handle.
you know I'm right about it.

For thread initiator: you may want to consider waiting for Gotway EX...

Edited August 31, 2020 by Meserias

[null]

47 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

For you the Sherman range might be useful. But does it really need to be 3200 Wh and 35 kg? To me these monster batteries seem like trying to win a spec sheet war without any consideration to practicality. I get that some people really want that battery and it's ok. I do a lot of long distance riding and still don't want that battery. I just don't want to carry it around everywhere I go with the wheel. Reminds me of that Energizer phone pictured here. Everybody wanted a bigger battery but at some point it's just too much to fit in your pocket. I would like to once again refer to the law of diminishing return. 

Sure, but here we have 200% more Wh for 130% the weight, to me it is worth it. As I have "light" use covered by a smaller wheel it doesn't matter if my travel wheel is heavy. I do have some stairs to take so there is an upper weight limit, but that is toned down by the possibility to roll it up.

Anyhow, to each their own :) ( I wouldn't set the V11 and Sherman as competing wheels as they have different targets.)

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by null

[null]

7 minutes ago, Meserias said:

you can't lift the wheel off the ground using stock VSherman trolley handle.
you know I'm right about it.

But thats not what you where saying, you said it didn't have a trolley handle.
And by the way, do you lift up the V11 by the trolley handle?

Edited August 31, 2020 by null

[Ghukek]

2 hours ago, UniVehje said:

Even the range is overkill as very few people have the stamina to ride that long.

Oh boy, you need to come visit us in Boston. We regularly exceed 50 miles (80km) on group rides and a few of us like to push 100 miles (160km). Sherman is absolutely a contender in our minds specifically due to range. (I personally am excited to stop being the least common denominator for range with my 18XL that has a battery so old it can barely squeeze 35 miles (55km).) With that being said, I acknowledge that our group is not necessarily representative of the larger community as a whole.

 

As far as the original question goes, I'll echo the sentiment I've seen from others. The two wheels aren't really competitors. The Sherman is a good wheel for speed and range. If you aren't pushing one or the other (or both) than you really shouldn't cough up the extra grand. There's a small case to be made for the Sherman's shell durability, but I don't think it's a sufficient benefit to consider. The V11 is, in my opinion, the best all around wheel of 2020 and should absolutely be chosen unless excess speed or range are important to you. This is coming from someone who is extremely excited to get his Sherman next week. 

[Darrell Wesh]

4 hours ago, null said:

But thats not what you where saying, you said it didn't have a trolley handle.
And by the way, do you lift up the V11 by the trolley handle?

Haha he literally switched up his stance when he found out he was wrong and he knows it. All his points were baseless as well.

[Thatmustache]

I appreciate everyones input! 

It seems to me that the Veteran Sherman would fuel the inner speed and range demon without a doubt. But the V11 is almost a perfect all rounder, with the comfort of taking on slightly more bumpy and unknown terrain with more speed and confidence than I do currently on my 18XL.

I'm considering commuting with one of these wheels (33 km commute one way). Which sometimes would be at night.

The Sherman would certainly get me there quicker, and I wouldn't have to worry about charging while I'm there. (However charging isn't a huge issue to me). But the V11 would make for a smoother ride, and better headlight while night riding. If money permitted I would buy both 

 

[StuartL]

12 hours ago, Thatmustache said:

It seems to me that the Veteran Sherman would fuel the inner speed and range demon without a doubt. But the V11 is almost a perfect all rounder,

I'd agree with this statement.  I'm a self-confessed V10F fanboy and I've an order pending for a V11.  I've also done around 5 miles of hardcore offroad on a borrowed Sherman.  This offroad was slow speed extremely technical rocky tracks with deep gulleys and slippery dirt.  I have not taken the Sherman above about 15mph (estimated).

The Sherman is WAY better than I expected.  I expected the weight and size to be a major problem and it really wasn't.  The motor is very torquey at low speeds and the Kenda tyre (K262??) is epically good on very technical offroad.  However its weight isn't a bonus in this environment and it was good (better than the MSX) but not great.

There's also a few concerns I had about the Sherman:

• When you're riding it carries the weight very well.  You feel a slight loss of agility but it's nowhere near as bad as you'd think.  When you're carrying it (even picking it up) you feel every pound/kilogram of its weight.
• The Sherman I rode was a very early model (first batch, I think) and there were some build quality issues which the owner had to deal with (undersized motor wires overheating, needing to short capacitors to update firmware) that aren't a great indicator of a well-thought-out product.  I'm aware that this was an early model and I don't know what Veteran are doing to fix them.
• I found the body shell of the Sherman very wide (like the MSX).  It didn't really suit me, however I'm a pretty small guy and someone bigger built may not find this an issue.

I had already placed my order for the V11 when I rode the Sherman (I discounted it from consideration on price) and I'm not disappointed with my choice.  I haven't ridden the V11 but I adore my V10F (it's taken me places lots of other wheels have failed) and I love the Inmotion build ethos (see my other comments on this topic if you care ).

If I wanted raw speed and range the Sherman would have to be top of the list.  If these weren't my primary drivers I believe that there are better choices for much less money.  Indeed I think you can get two "good" wheels (or one great one and one cheap one) for the price of one Sherman.

[zege]

I had the same issue trying to settle for a upgrade for my Tesla. I was only considering the sherman or the V11 so I get why you only chose between these. I went for the Sherman. I really like that the Sherman seems to be durable. Every wheel I have had has been taped up or it would have fallen apart. I hope that I do not have to do that with the Sherman. Speed and range is always nice and the rough tire seems to be able to smooth out the surface a bit. I do not want the extra work the suspension would take and I am not sure it makes the wheel more controllable or just more comfy. 

[Tazarinho]

It completely depends on what you're planning to do with it.

Having a KS 16X, I would be more interested in the Sherman:
As a heavier (92kg ungeared) rider that loves to do long road trips, I find the battery range of the Sherman really tempting. For a 200 km day, it's the difference between one charging stop or two. I don't care about the top speed that much, but it's nice to have the safety buffer.  The weight is of course an issue, but it's a trade-off I would be willing to make. 

The V11 seems like a great and comfortable all-rounder, but so is my 16X. I don't feel I'd get a LOT more out of the V11 than 'just comfort'. My knees are mostly still working, and I only feel them after a ride if I do more than 50 km of teeth-rattling rocky trails. I think the suspension is great, don't get me wrong. But I'd be spending a lot of money to only upgrade one (major) aspect of my rides, and it's not the one that annoys me. I suffer from the range of my Ks-16X more than I suffer from the ride comfort.

So all in all, for me it would be an easy choice. But if I came from say, an Inmotion V8. The choice would be much harder, as both wheels would be major upgrades on all fronts.

[meepmeepmayer]

On 8/31/2020 at 4:46 AM, Thatmustache said:

If you could choose one of these wheels, which one would you pick and why?

My head would say "Get the V11!" and my heart would make me get the Sherman - because 3200Wh are 3200Wh. But I like range. Depending on what you want to do with it, and especially if you are looking for a great allrounder, the V11 certainly seems the non-crazy wheel to buy. Also: suspension on the V11!

[Ben Kim]

i have yet to deplete the battery on my Sherman. The lowest I got it was 32% after 50 miles of hard riding. 

[StuartL]

38 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

The lowest I got it was 32% after 50 miles of hard riding.

Does that mean that you only needed a battery 70% of the size of the one you have purchased?

[Violinfun]

I don't have either of these but I am waiting on my Sherman to arrive.  I'm surprised no one has mentioned the increased maintenance complexity on the V11.  The tear down videos of that euc seem pretty complex. The V11 also seems overly fragile.  I am thinking of Hsiangs unit that self destructed after drifting into a mail truck.  Personally I don't like having to baby my equipment and that's part of the reason I went with the Sherman.  Also people talk about the Sherman having more speed and range than they need.  I think in general on EUC's it is a very good thing to have extra overhead in all areas.  More speed means that the cruising speed will be in the 35-40mph region without issues.  Less possiblity of overpowering the wheel. Ability to accelerate away from danger etc...  Finally I really dislike  the throttling level on the V11.  Dropping the max speed after only 30% battery usage seems ridiculous.  Sure it's cheaper, but then you are running on a gimped machine.  Sure there is throttling on the Sherman but most people will never experience because of the range overhead.

Everyone has their reasons getting either machine, enjoy the ride and stay safe.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Violinfun

[fryman]

Another point about larger batteries. The larger the battery, the less charging is required unless you ride your wheel to to 0% every time. Less charging cycles can equal a longer battery life of your battery.

[Mango]

I had put down my pre-order for the V11 as soon as it was available on my reseller's website. It would have been a no-brainer upgrade from the V10f. Larger tires, more battery, bright headlamps and 50% more battery, with same awesome Inmotion quality fit and finish. That is until the Sherman arrived and information started slowly coming in. I weighed my options, my riding style, my needs and came to the conclusion the Veteran Sherman was a better fit. Either of these two wheels would have been perfect as the next wheel purchase but since I already have the V10f, the Sherman was the better choice.

Firstly, the range and speed on the Sherman is just insanely awesome. So insane. Over twice the battery capacity of the V11 yet only cost 25% over premium. Speeds of ~70km/h (over 80km of it) vs 55km/h over a much short distance, and the choice became clear. 3200WH and ~ 200km of range is in that abstractly weird sweet spot where you start worrying less about range and battery life and thinking more about where you want to travel and how much time you have to do it. It's a paradigm shift. The Sherman is first in a paradigm shift for the EUC community.

Suspension is awesome and the future, but with all the dreadful reliability reports coming in from V11 and lots from the S18, I may just wait for real long term usage to see any patterns. Also, the extra maintenance and having to carry another pump just may not be worth it when the Sherman's thick knobby tire and weight really helps to smooth the ride over the small bumps in the road... it's like Sherman's own micro-suspension system. Non-Sherman owners really need to ride the machine to feel it. I can go over small bumps and cracks with confidence that would otherwise give me pause on the V10f.

As a value proposition, the Sherman is the better buy. It's insanely customizable with it's squarish design and those awesome hand rails. The LCD display is a game-changer. This is first gen. Imagine future generations having OLED, touch control, built-in GPS, etc. The possibilities go up from here. Trolley handle is awesome... right smack in the middle balanced as all hell and retracts out of the way keeping its overall silhouette beautiful. As much as I love the convenience of the trolley handle on my v10f (and kinda carried over to the V11), it can look pretty naff.

My next wheel to replace the V10f would be the V11 or some future version of it, so there is a place for V11, just not now.

[Ben Kim]

6 hours ago, StuartL said:

Does that mean that you only needed a battery 70% of the size of the one you have purchased?

No, it means I can go faster, longer on low battery, something that seems to evade many people when purchasing a wheel. 

[AtlasP]

The Sherman is mostly evolutionary/iterative and geared towards a very small niche subset of riders--its defining characteristics are centered around simply higher speeds, bigger batteries, etc. For a certain vocal minority always clamoring for the absolute highest speeds and/or range (and/or desperately wanting a 100v alternative to Gotway's perpetual production issues), the Sherman is of course a very exciting product, but one whose broader impact/relevance has been far overstated, especially at that price (approaching $3k). (It's really very similar to the Monster in a lot of ways--the biggest and fastest for a long time, with a number of objective strengths and a very vocal set of fans, but in the end very few people actually ride them.)

By contrast the V11 is truly revolutionary--the first consumer EUC with an entirely new mechanical feature, suspension, providing categorically better ride quality; categorical improvement to automotive-grade headlight & taillight; the innovation of a hollow-bore motor enabling higher-gauge motor cabling as motors & batteries increase; a revolutionary BMS which monitors individual pack health and enables the wheel to remain balancing even with the failure of entire packs. (And talking about market impact/relevance, it offers these advancements while still exceeding the speed & range requirements of 95+% of riders, coupled with InMotion's industry-leading production values & safety track record, all at the near-ubiquitous $2k price point.)

A few years from now, very few EUCs will resemble the Sherman in any meaningful way, but most if not all higher-end wheels will have some combination if not all of: suspension, V11-category lights, hollow-bore motors, and more-advanced BMS's--with the V11 and InMotion having paved the way. This is why the V11 is the "wheel of the year" as it carries the first true innovations in EUCs in years--and not as some risky ahead-of-its-time experiment with a mix of rough edges/compromises, but as a truly polished, well-rounded product that's already selling like hotcakes.

Edited September 7, 2020 by AtlasP