Gotway RS

[Rafal]

8 minutes ago, Waulnut said:

If someone doesn't use power pads to use the full capability of the wheel, would the torque and speed version be about the same in ride feel (accelerating, braking, etc)?

What makes the speed version able to achieve higher top speed?

different kv of the motor

[Felix]

On 9/25/2020 at 10:31 PM, KiwiMark said:

My understanding is that you can set the speed for tilt-back in software so that it is super easy to keep the speed down until you are ready to go faster, this seems like a great feature for a learner rider.  I'm considering this wheel (27kg) instead of a Tesla V2 (22kg) and my thought is that the weight difference isn't huge so the risk doesn't change by a great deal.  My motorcycle weighs over 250kg and can exceed 200kph, with care and protective gear I don't see an EUC as being all that dangerous.

I can only speak for the Tesla: Its such a great wheel, unless you plan to go really fast, it is really perfect. I tried out riding all kinds of big wheels on a group ride recently (including V11, MSP, Monster) and find they feel like a train: stable but less playful, less nimble and responsive. With the Tesla it accelerates hard with fairly little lean compared to the big wheels. So if you want to ride beyond 40kmh regularly on big long road trips go for the big wheel of course, otherwise Telsa is a really nice all-rounder wheel especially for city commuting

[EMA]

1 hour ago, Waulnut said:

If someone doesn't use power pads to use the full capability of the wheel, would the torque and speed version be about the same in ride feel (accelerating, braking, etc)?

What makes the speed version able to achieve higher top speed?

torque and speed are different, a lot, with or without pads 

[KiwiMark]

5 hours ago, Felix said:

So if you want to ride beyond 40kmh regularly on big long road trips go for the big wheel of course

Yeah, that does sound like me.  On my scooter I often ride with the throttle held on full (scooter says 60kph but GPS says 54kph) but I don't get good range doing that.  In many ways a Sherman appeals because 3200Wh would give more range at 54kph than 1800Wh (or 1500Wh in the case of my scooter) - but there is the issue of price as well as the weight penalty of the bigger battery.  Unfortunately the Sherman is 8kg heavier than the RS, not just on longer rides but on every ride - whether you actually need the bigger battery or not.

I'd rather go 55kph on a wheel capable of 70+ than on a wheel capable of 60 - I'm not keen on experiencing a high speed cut-off, so I ordered the C30 version.  For an experienced rider that demands more of their wheel, I can understand preferring the torque version.

[DjPanJan]

22 hours ago, EMA said:

20km/h avg always get the best range, 100v wheels are pretty good at 30km/h too imho

Exactly.

What you think about ride to incline/hill slower = better?

 

My today ride range only 39miles 12%(load)-20%(static) battery left only. 63km medium hilly terrain elevation 596m(1955feet) up and down   MSP 2500W. Eucworld optimized read battery mode.

total weight 118kg 260lbs +-(2 chargers water full face gear  all) speed +-16-30(under 18 miles) km/h or slower to inclines.

https://euc.world/tour/590693833681084

Speedyfeet say in linked video speed 25-28 miles all test this is 40+ km/h down to +-10% in 30miles = 48 km/h is normal for MSP i think.

Ustride burn battery in 25miles on MSP in video and he is speed demon compare to me.

My tiltback is 46km/h (28miles) on msp 2500w i rare hit tiltback.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

I have the MSP HT since few weeks and my Range is 50-55km max, then the battery is down to 0% (79, 2 volts) under load and less than 10% no load. 

No speed limit/tiltback

20.3 inch knobby tire with 22psi 

78kg 

Mixed terrain:

20% slow technical trail riding on very sandy trails

60% rough gravel, woods, Field paths (sand and grass) 

20% concrete

50% of the time I'm riding on 80% alarm. 

The other 50% I ride a little bit more economical so that I can still make the 50km loop. 

 

 

 

 

[EMA]

46 minutes ago, DjPanJan said:

What you think about ride to incline/hill slower = better?

120% agree, you can easy see how battery suffer going up hill, so it's better to slow down going up and go a bit faster downhill.

considering the weight and the tour, your range is legit, the same for @buell47

speed is the 1st factor then i'll put tire pressure and riding style, imho

[Scottie888]

10 hours ago, Felix said:

I can only speak for the Tesla: Its such a great wheel, unless you plan to go really fast, it is really perfect. I tried out riding all kinds of big wheels on a group ride recently (including V11, MSP, Monster) and find they feel like a train: stable but less playful, less nimble and responsive. With the Tesla it accelerates hard with fairly little lean compared to the big wheels. So if you want to ride beyond 40kmh regularly on big long road trips go for the big wheel of course, otherwise Telsa is a really nice all-rounder wheel especially for city commuting

That's what I found as well! My Tesla handles amazingly & I can easily twist my legs to achieve an instant 180. Plus its feels so smooth on pavement that it reminds me of a luxury car ride. It's so easy to ride that sometimes I think its a great beginners wheel. Lately I've been seriously pondering ordering the RShs but I've also been pondering on where I can go >45kph. I ride primarily on bikepaths (despite being an oil&gas town, it has >1000kms of bikepaths😁 so much so I can almost go anywhere within the City without mixing it with autos) & except for (very) short bursts, there's no where except going on the roadways & I'm very reluctant to do that. 

That plus the fact of the onset of fall/winter has given me pause for now but I gotta say the itch for a new toy is getting stronger.

4 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

Yeah, that does sound like me.  On my scooter I often ride with the throttle held on full (scooter says 60kph but GPS says 54kph) but I don't get good range doing that.  In many ways a Sherman appeals because 3200Wh would give more range at 54kph than 1800Wh (or 1500Wh in the case of my scooter) - but there is the issue of price as well as the weight penalty of the bigger battery.  Unfortunately the Sherman is 8kg heavier than the RS, not just on longer rides but on every ride - whether you actually need the bigger battery or not.

I'd rather go 55kph on a wheel capable of 70+ than on a wheel capable of 60 - I'm not keen on experiencing a high speed cut-off, so I ordered the C30 version.  For an experienced rider that demands more of their wheel, I can understand preferring the torque version.

Unsurprisingly I too "graduated" to EUCs from escoots - the Mantis Pro which if I remember correctly is what u have. I agree that similar speeds on a wheel is more thrilling for sure. However I advise extreme caution as there's no cutouts on escoots. One can merrily ride at full throttle & all that happens is the scoot will gradually be slower & stop as battery depletes.

The same is far from true with EUCs. Also the Mantis has a good dual suspension which lets it get away with minor potholes & other rougher terrain even at a decent clip. Again the same is not so for a wheel. Perhaps its just me but I find crosswinds to affect a wheel far far more than a scoot as well. 

I guess all that adds to the thrill effect of wheels but it can also add to the pain of eating it too.

[EMA]

@Scottie888 you'll be surprised how easy a 19 inch can go to 50-60 km/h and how stable it's compared to an escooter , not mentioning the 22' monster...

[Scottie888]

18 minutes ago, EMA said:

@Scottie888 you'll be surprised how easy a 19 inch can go to 50-60 km/h and how stable it's compared to an escooter , not mentioning the 22' monster...

NOOOO! Say it ain't so! I must resist....resist.....!

[Planemo]

48 minutes ago, EMA said:

@Scottie888 you'll be surprised how easy a 19 inch can go to 50-60 km/h and how stable it's compared to an escooter , not mentioning the 22' monster...

Agreed. Even coming from a Z10 (not known for its instability) to an MSX, the difference was remarkable. The MSX was like a Rolls Royce, at speeds the Z10 couldnt even do.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

59 minutes ago, EMA said:

@Scottie888 you'll be surprised how easy a 19 inch can go to 50-60 km/h and how stable it's compared to an escooter...

even with a 20.3 inch knobby CST-C186 tire. 

[Simply_Striking]

On 9/26/2020 at 12:59 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

Ian from Speedyfeet always gets horrible range. Also he was riding 28mph all the time, speed eats battery like crazy. This is the expected behavior for a 1800Wh battery under the circumstances.

Normal riders can expect the normal 1800Wh range like any other 1800Wh wheel , which should easily be 65km (40 miles) or more.

Not going to lie, I was initially looking at the S18 as my first wheel (It looks sexy). But after lurking around on this forum and seeing the mess that KS has created I'm now looking at this wheel. The range and the huge safety margin is what has me set on it. After seeing Ian's review not sure if I should wait for 1st batch woes, or order. Part of me wants to hold out for the s18, but I do not think the battery capacity will do me in. I'm thinking with the s18 I would probably need to charge with to 100% whilst with this 80% should be more than enough. Do Gotway batter packs hold their capacity well?

[shellac]

18 minutes ago, Simply_Striking said:

Not going to lie, I was initially looking at the S18 as my first wheel (It looks sexy). But after lurking around on this forum and seeing the mess that KS has created I'm now looking at this wheel. The range and the huge safety margin is what has me set on it. After seeing Ian's review not sure if I should wait for 1st batch woes, or order.

The RS seems to be a few changes on a tried and true design. I suppose it’s possible that they could screwup the new hollow motor bearing like Inmotion did or mess up the bracket mounting, but chances are first batch will be fine. 

[NickNonsense]

9 hours ago, shellac said:

The RS seems to be a few changes on a tried and true design. I suppose it’s possible that they could screwup the new hollow motor bearing like Inmotion did or mess up the bracket mounting, but chances are first batch will be fine. 

This is my thought too. So I have placed a pre order for the RS High torque.

Edited October 1, 2020 by NickNonsense

[Scottie]

10 hours ago, Simply_Striking said:

Do Gotway batter packs hold their capacity well?

The old style MSP torque model has the same battery and it will carry my 240 lbs around for about 4 rides of about 2 hours each (15 to 17 mph, and riding about 90 min. of the 2 hours) before I feel the desire to charge it. Could probably get another ride or two, but then I might start getting anxious.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

Oh man, how cool would it be if I could say the same. My battery is completely empty after 75 minutes for a 50km mixed offroad trip and I only weigh 172lb. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by buell47

[Scottie]

Well, I do cruise along slowly compared to most. People say the speed eats up the battery.

[Scottie]

I recently watch this video by Ian (Speedy Feet). Beginning at time 14:10 and to about 15:30 he talks about the range he got ... 30 miles ... pushing hard cause he always goes for worst case range when he tests a wheel. 

 

[EMA]

real range is between 60 (even less at #fullsend) and 120km, depending on speed  

[Tasku]

Been following the RS hype and chatter for while. I like many follow and try to get all we can information about these wheels to get good picture whats worth for us. So here we go with my few thoughts of the latest and greatest.

Don't have the RS but I did get MSP C38 Torque, so I say few words about it. The range loss due speed is/was bigger than I initially thought of it. What I seen sofar (IMHO) the RS does not seem to be improve to MSP atleast in the torque model. There was this russian guy who showed the magnets on the motor mismatching (MSP Torque) .. if only I would find that video. It was prolly most in detail video ever. Althou, he/they improved the wheels water resistant and drive it to lake and such  If someone here knows the video link it, well  anyway that mismatching magnets size thingie explains why the motor takes so much more from battery at higher speeds. I bet the RS has mismatching magnets size too.

I love the torque but I am thinking I want my next wheel able to perform longer range. That being the biggest dent what was given and what end up being missing. I might have to make it customized to make sure my demand is met. For majority I would recommend the "Speed" version that can perform long(er) range (BUT with RS this is now the same thing? Is the magnets now mismatched also in the Speed version..?) The range is more in demand for most, I would assume so. Gotways marketing team is not making a good PR for the devices by giving numbers that does not hold a good estimate to majority of operators. You need to take about half away from that range estimate to get more realistic. But that is just how it is, and I understand that by design gotway seems to make wheels that will need  to get replaced, by their new models they hope. Just feeling mixed about it.

RANGE ESTIMATE:

I get 40km of joy out of my MSP on trails and rest is economic (sluggish) driving for ~20-30 km. I cant say I bother with the economic driving and charge the device to get more outa it. In anycase, I still love the performance in general, just buyer beware if it is  range you want, the torque version is not the wheel for you.

Considering how fast new models come and go, this market is moving fast and so should devices progress too. RS was not big improvement in that regard. Some flaws in old design to be fixed was good in general. 

The markets have room for some quality wheels that would have big enough battery packs and amazing BMS. That kind of wheel I am looking to get next and hope to see safety improves like multiple tiltback options available. There are few custom wheels and sherman already out there. For temptation. I wish for quality wheel that can take test of time.

Just waiting to see new wheels that go for next level in range, better BMS and safety features.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Tasku
quick edit for typos

[Waulnut]

@Tasku Would the RS-Speed (MS-S) be assumed to have slightly better efficiency in range because it has potentially less torque starting from a stop? Or is it safe to say when ridden at like ~15 mph average between both, the range should be same with all else constant? 

I do kind of notice, not sure if it is just me on the KS18xl vs ks16x, I do burn a bit more battery on the 16x possibly because it has higher torque over the 18xl. 

[erk1024]

14 hours ago, Simply_Striking said:

Not going to lie, I was initially looking at the S18 as my first wheel (It looks sexy). But after lurking around on this forum and seeing the mess that KS has created I'm now looking at this wheel. The range and the huge safety margin is what has me set on it. After seeing Ian's review not sure if I should wait for 1st batch woes, or order. Part of me wants to hold out for the s18, but I do not think the battery capacity will do me in. I'm thinking with the s18 I would probably need to charge with to 100% whilst with this 80% should be more than enough. Do Gotway batter packs hold their capacity well?

The Gotway batteries are fine. They're made by Panasonic, and we've had good luck with them for the most part. If you want to extend your battery life, there are things you can do, which are covered elsewhere in the forum.

There are two problems with having a relatively small battery like the one on the S18. One is less range, but the other is that there is just less power available when you need it. The S18 has 3 parallel banks of 21700 cells. Each bank can put out 15 amps (continuous) at 84 volts, so that means you have 45 total amps. The other wheels (V11, MSX, MSP, RS, Nikola, etc.) tend to have 4 parallel banks or more, which means they have 60 amps available. And the Gotway wheels usually have 100v which handles higher speeds better. The Wrong Way guy is warning people that it's easy to overlean the S18 because under high load there's not enough power out of those pack. Yikes.

If you really want crazy amounts of range, then the Veteran Sherman, the Gotway EX or the Gotway Monster pro maybe are the way to go? But those are going to be super heavy, so maybe not a good first wheel for that reason. 

As a first wheel, there are lots of good choices: Gotway Nikola+, InMotion V11, Kingsong 16X, Gotway MSX Pro (either version), Gotway RS (either version), MCM5, MTen3 ... 

And by the way, when you are first learning to ride, you'll be lucky to go 5 miles because of foot fatigue.

I can get about 45 miles out of my 100V Monster V3 or my 100V Nikola+ with 100% charge, and I'm a gravity challenged 265lbs. Riding fast eats batteries faster because of wind resistance. I ride everywhere at 50kph road conditions permitting.

Edited October 1, 2020 by erk1024

[Tasku]

2 hours ago, Waulnut said:

@Tasku Would the RS-Speed (MS-S) be assumed to have slightly better efficiency in range because it has potentially less torque starting from a stop? Or is it safe to say when ridden at like ~15 mph average between both, the range should be same with all else constant? 

I do kind of notice, not sure if it is just me on the KS18xl vs ks16x, I do burn a bit more battery on the 16x possibly because it has higher torque over the 18xl

Yes, all the vendors say the RS Speed version would have better range. My personal experience is limited to 1600km traveled so far. I tend to travel 40-110km per day, well everyday that is ( I can't keep my feets nor my hands away from the wheel!). I feel like got the handling of very slow to high speed figured out and I feel confident handling any wobble. Always more to learn. Instead of going faster I think I focus learning tricks and reversing next.

The optimal speed is 12.4 mph or 20km/h for the optimal range performance. That seems to be the magic number across all/most the devices at the moment.

My friend calls the torque tractor. I like the acceleration and it comes handy alot.

If I would have known that the range is rather weak, I would have saved for.. sherman/MSS/1Rad Nik..  Who am I kiddin.. I had wheel fever and that wheel was available. I wanted wheel before autumn and winter ruins the season for me. For first wheel, MSP feels great. Like any wheel it usually leaves you wanting more. I join the club of many, who wants more from his first wheel. I am scared of the wheels more heavy than mine. I would not like to carry more than that 25kg my MSP is.

Msp was in list of possibilities because specs promised range potential. That only reason I got to complain at this point. Nuff said.

 

[Scottie]

On 10/1/2020 at 10:56 AM, erk1024 said:

As a first wheel, there are lots of good choices: Gotway Nikola+, InMotion V11, Kingsong 16X, Gotway MSX Pro (either version), Gotway RS (either version), MCM5, MTen3 ...

This recent video is from a EUC seller, but I think it backs up your statement about a couple of the non-suspension wheels still being relevant good choices. I don't think I agree with everything in the video, but most of it seems right. The range topic is heavily addressed which relates to recent comments.