Gotway RS

[Planemo]

Nope, I'm still not convinced the RS high speed '2600w' and old MSX '2000w' motors are any different then in terms of windings/coils/magnets/wattage etc. Sounds more like a simple firmware change which would also fit in with the (albeit preliminary) results we have seen in the uk. Would love to be proved wrong though..

Edited September 22, 2020 by Planemo

[EMA]

motors have been already confirmed with c30 and c38 magnets like MSP

[meepmeepmayer]

I wonder how they (motor manufacturer?) even determine motor wattage, and if these numbers mean anything anymore.

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, EMA said:

motors have been already confirmed with c30 and c38 magnets like MSP

I know. What I am getting at is that this 'new' RS high speed motor started at 2600w, then went down to 2000w then went back up to 2600w and throughout this has always been designated as a 'C30', the same as the old MSX motor. Then we get guys who have fitted later boards to their old MSX's and confirmed a 4mph gain throughout (including beep limits) and stated that 'the wheel feels stronger'. So does the RS high speed actually have a beefier motor or is it all in the firmware? Thats what I am trying to find out.

Has anyone confirmed yet that the RS high speed motor does actually have wider magnets than the old MSX C30? That would help answer some questions. It may well do, I am not trying to start an argument, I am just intrigued as I now know for sure that the old MSX C30 wasnt being run at its full capacity.

[EMA]

RS speed has the same magnets as msp speed and msx, all 30mm, it's not beefier for sure, but board and firmware makes some difference.
i've tried the msp speed and it feels stronger and really locked at speed compared to ols msx, seems also angry on battery .

[Scottie888]

FWIW I contacted the dudes from Thailand that had the RS hs unboxing video & they confirmed the their 1st batch RS hs has the 2600w motor. I also queried about the difference btwn the hs v ht versions but they said that they don't have the ht version as yet.

However they did say that the RS hs feels as torquey as the MSP ht! I can't even imagine how much more low end grunt the RS ht would have!!!

Anyhoos this is awesome news fo sho👍🥰

[RockyTop]

In layman’s terms: 
I do not want any motor that the batteries can’t beat the hell out of at 50% battery. I want that motor to know who’s boss. .......(It is the batteries and control board) 

Engineers, please give us speed and power and don’t worry about the displayed numbers. 
 

This is how we ended up with 100,0000 watt speakers in the 90’s 

Edited September 22, 2020 by RockyTop

[shellac]

 

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, Scottie888 said:

However they did say that the RS hs feels as torquey as the MSP ht! I can't even imagine how much more low end grunt the RS ht would have!!!

Wow the HT must be a mountain monster!! Can't wait for real life experiences with that thing.

[Scottie888]

44 minutes ago, shellac said:

 

Generally very postive. However I wished he woulda given a more detailed comparo (at least an impression) btwn this RShs & the MSPht that he did a review on. That woulda been great!

[shellac]

I’m not a big high speed person but I LOVE low end acceleration. I imagine the RS torque must be the quickest thing on the market. Can’t decide between that and the Sherman, the latter for the ride quality and stability....

[Daley1]

30 mile real world range test.Thats horrible!

[DjPanJan]

Is teoreticaly possible ubgrade (old) MSP 2500w with RS torque control board ?

If RS torque board have beter safety margin i want it. 

Everything what have more power and can climb with heavy person incline longer comapre to MSP 2500w i want.

My today ride range only 39miles 12%(load)-20%(static) battery left only. 63km medium hilly terrain elevation 596m(1955feet) up and down   MSP 2500W. Eucworld optimized read battery mode.

total weight 118kg 260lbs +-(2 chargers water full face gear  all) speed +-16-30(under 18 miles) km/h or slower to inclines.

https://euc.world/tour/590693833681084

Speedyfeet say in linked video speed 25-28 miles all test this is 40+ km/h down to +-10% in 30miles = 48 km/h is normal for MSP i think.

Ustride burn battery in 25miles on MSP in video and he is speed demon compare to me.

My tiltback is 46km/h (28miles) on msp 2500w i rare hit tiltback.

Maybee they make Gotway RS Pro T  with more battery and handle in middle ,my dream in rainbow and unicorn world is protection cage too 

Edited September 22, 2020 by DjPanJan

[meepmeepmayer]

53 minutes ago, DjPanJan said:

Is teoreticaly possible ubgrade (old) MSP 2500w with RS torque control board ?

If RS torque board have beter safety margin i want it. 

Everything what have more power and can climb with heavy person incline longer comapre to MSP 2500w i want.

The battery decides how much power a wheel can provide and how big your safety margin is. The MSP and the RS both have the same battery, so I don't believe the safety margin will change in any notable way.

And if you change to the new RS board, you should probably also change to the new RS motor, since the firmware seems to be adjusted to the motor. (But maybe the new motor is the exact same construction, just with the hollow core, then you could change just the board. We don't know yet the motor details.)

I don't believe it would make much sense to upgrade an MSP with RS components because you'd (probably) replace almost everything except the battery (board, if motor then also pedal hangers and shell). If the RS really turns out much different (better?) to the MSP, just sell your MSP and get a new RS if you want to upgrade.

Edited September 22, 2020 by meepmeepmayer

[Scottie888]

On 9/22/2020 at 3:17 PM, Daley1 said:

30 mile real world range test.Thats horrible!

Ya but buddy did say he was going ~28mph all the way! As we all know, as speed goes up, power consumption goes up not linearly but more like exponentially.

I bet if the test was done at 20mph, range will be closer to 50mile range & if one can sustain a catatonic 12mph, I bet it can easily do 60-70miles.

[BleepBloopBlop]

Any idea if Gotway is going to update the 50kph tiltback limit? I for one would buy this wheel if it had tiltback at say 65kph! 

[Waulnut]

what potential problems can come up with this wheel on release? if its built to succeed the MSP, could it be fairly safe of failures?

[RockyTop]

3 minutes ago, Waulnut said:

what potential problems can come up with this wheel on release? if its built to succeed the MSP, could it be fairly safe of failures?

Well?..  They could use a motor that is too big for the batteries and have cut outs like the KS16S. 

[Nick McCutcheon]

1 hour ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

Any idea if Gotway is going to update the 50kph tiltback limit? I for one would buy this wheel if it had tiltback at say 65kph! 

Not sure about Darknessbot since I don't use it, but I know EUC World lets you set tiltback well above 50kph.

[RagingGrandpa]

On 9/22/2020 at 3:50 PM, Scottie888 said:

However they did say that the RS hs feels as torquey as the MSP ht! I can't even imagine how much more low end grunt the RS ht would have!!!

I don't believe it's because of the motor.

No-load speed tells us a lot, and it's the same as MSP C30. This means the peak torque is the same.

Firmware (motor control) improvements do help; I'm glad they seem to get incrementally better with each release...

I've broken two Gotway axles. The new large-diameter bearings are very appealing But it's their first release Hope they're durable from batch 1.

[AtlasP]

Am I missing something? The RS is advertised as having the same general speed and range as the MSPro, but is 5 pounds heavier and $150 more expensive? (Also technically the motor wattage is supposed to be 100W more, which is likely negligible/it's increasingly becoming obvious that motor wattage is only one component of motor performance coupled with unknown metrics like magnet configuration, etc.) Edit: I guess it is supposed to have a few feature improvements like larger pedals, better lights, better lift switch, etc.

The primary advantage of hollow-bore motors are the potential for heavier-gauge motor wires and the potential to supplant previously fragile axles (a common point of failure particularly for some models and contexts) with a better solution TBD--but do we have any details/confirmation on whether either of these are actually implemented/true on the RS? Super excited to see the advancements that come with hollow-bore, just wondering how much the RS takes advantage of the potential.

Edited September 28, 2020 by AtlasP

[Rico]

13 hours ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

Any idea if Gotway is going to update the 50kph tiltback limit? I for one would buy this wheel if it had tiltback at say 65kph! 

Only the stock gotway app is limited to 50 kph tiltback. Both Darknessbot and euc world let you set tiltback to much higher speeds, on my nik+ i set the tiltback to 65 kph using darknessbot.

[bryon01]

13 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

I don't believe it's because of the motor.

No-load speed tells us a lot, and it's the same as MSP C30. This means the peak torque is the same.

For an ideal motor yes, but this statement ignores non-ideal realities, like magnetic saturation, drive differences, leads, etc.  All of these impact actual torque the motor can produce, and could change with the new model.  What you are really saying is the torque constant of the motor is likely near the same, but you can't generalize to peak torque. 

[Mark Wilson]

15 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

No-load speed tells us a lot, and it's the same as MSP C30. This means the peak torque is the same.

I don't know a lot about electric motors, but I'm almost positive this is not true.

[RagingGrandpa]

16 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

No-load speed tells us a lot, and it's the same as MSP C30. This means the peak torque is the same.

Not that you need to believe me... but I stand by my statement.

We're comparing MSP C30 with MSP-RS C30.

My assumptions are:

1. System input voltage is the same (100.8V max)
2. The permanent magnets are the same.
3. Pole count is the same.
4. Turn count is the same.
5. Coil resistance is the same (because there is insufficient space to package thicker coils without changing #3 or #4)
6. The motor control design (firmware) has negligible difference in maximum electrical current. (Meaning: power stages of the control boards are not substantially different.)

(I'm eagerly awaiting an ecodrift-style teardown to officially confirm #2-5... but they are safe assumptions based on what we know today.)

We've observed that Kv is the same, because the two systems have the same no-load speed.

Thus my conclusion: both EUC's have similar maximum force output, across their entire speed range.

(Typical PM-BLDC system performance example; not a Gotway motor)

Said another way: I think the 'red line' did not change.

 

What about 2500W?

It's a continuous power rating, and not a torque rating, and not a speed rating.
Higher power ratings mean you can sustain higher loads for longer durations. This applies to EUC torture tests like overheat hill and pushing automobiles. But as we've seen, EUCs with motors rated at 2000w or higher always fail "somewhere besides the motor windings" first - cables short-circuit due to melted insulation, board connections desolder themselves, FETs burn, etc.

Hopefully it's not a lie- if Gotway beefs up the cables, connections, or cooling, the 'blue line' above could rise. Nice!

 

Does it matter?

Yes- because buyers will ultimately need to decide which model to buy (C30 vs C38). We've been through that before...

TL;DR on "Which one should I buy?":
>35mph reliably: you need C30.
>200lb on overheat hill reliably: you need C38.

Edited September 25, 2020 by RagingGrandpa