Feynman Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 I think the friction in A->D above will be much less with the nylon bushings and reamed hole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feynman Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) I'm quite happy with the C connection design. There are two bushings here, and internal and external. They connect so the ID is continuous. This joint rotates freely when tightened down completely; even with the ABS test bushings (I cracked the outer one as you can see, oops). I'll add another post in a few min. Hitting max file size for pics. Edited September 4, 2020 by Feynman 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feynman Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) I need to cut the thickness of the C spacer in half. Here's everything assembled. Much better than out of the box, even with these ABS test bushings. https://youtu.be/kmeHqbFZN2o This is without any lube on the rails, btw. Edited September 4, 2020 by Feynman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feynman Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 More pics of C connection 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsd317 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 @Feynman...looking good bud. According the latest update from ewheels, I should be getting my S18 in a week or two (if all goes well). By then, hopefully you'll have everything you need to be up and riding, so we can hit the trails in our area. I'm hoping I could ride my wheel several/many miles before breaking it down to make improvements. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yon Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 worthy and thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Finn Bjerke Posted September 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 4, 2020 If I need to disassemble the wheel to make it OK Im not buying it. Ill go for inmotion v11 then. Im not technical I dont have them skills - Im willing to learn but disassemblying the whole wheel is not OK with me. Feynman I want to thank you for the many contributions. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yon Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Regarding custom bushes to replace bearings either phosphor bronze of delrin the material is pennies most engineer shops will have this scrap and cut off material kicking about the floor. Walk in with your basic drawing on the back of a fag box or the item to be replaced, chuck £30.00 in their tea pot and collect in a week. I have had many small components made up this way from various local engineer shops. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feynman Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Finn Bjerke said: If I need to disassemble the wheel to make it OK Im not buying it. Ill go for inmotion v11 then. Im not technical I dont have them skills - Im willing to learn but disassemblying the whole wheel is not OK with me. Feynman I want to thank you for the many contributions. Honestly, I'd want to get that lock washer off of the connection to the slider. To do that; unfortunately; you'll have to disassemble the wheel. Disassembly took me less than an hour using a hand screwdriver, but reassembly will probably take longer since I have to remember what screws go where. It's definitely doable by an amateur (like me), so don't let it scare you if you otherwise like the wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feynman Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, yon said: Regarding custom bushes to replace bearings either phosphor bronze of delrin the material is pennies most engineer shops will have this scrap and cut off material kicking about the floor. Walk in with your basic drawing on the back of a fag box or the item to be replaced, chuck £30.00 in their tea pot and collect in a week. I have had many small components made up this way from various local engineer shops. The material is cheap, but I've gotten 4 quotes for the machining - very very simple parts, mind you - and the lowest has been $300. Edited September 4, 2020 by Feynman fat fingered cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yon Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 They are having a laff I used to work a lathe, 14 washers with shoulders or whatever will take and hour to make, once the machine is set up for one the rest take no time at all I could have made these in my lunch break. $300 seems alot of cash for basic washers and an hours work if that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yon Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 When mine arrives if no one else posts pictures of these new and improved bushes I will for all to see. I reckon they must have had a hacked off rouge technician working the assembly line because no way would it get past the r&d stage with metal rubbing against metal and spring washer holding bearings in place. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsd317 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 I apologize if the following has been mentioned before. The pre-production model did not have an exterior washer. So why did they add it in the production models. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feynman Posted September 5, 2020 Author Share Posted September 5, 2020 22 minutes ago, dsd317 said: I apologize if the following has been mentioned before. The pre-production model did not have an exterior washer. So why did they add it in the production models. I figured as much. So there's nothing holding the arms together at that connection except the friction of the press-fit bearings, but that's ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eve Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 (edited) @Feynman Are any of the springwasher in contact with the construction or its only the bearings? Edited September 5, 2020 by eve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yon Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 it's a good point and you have made it well. Taking a look on you tube and freezing the frame I can see many wheels with this oversize washer on the outside of the frame. All on post production models. quality control must have been absent when these went through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feynman Posted September 5, 2020 Author Share Posted September 5, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, eve said: @Feynman Are any of the springwasher in contact with the construction or its only the bearings? There's a lock washer between a bearing and the gray sliders or it might have been the black aluminum top piece, can't remember Edited September 5, 2020 by Feynman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eve Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 6 hours ago, Feynman said: There's a lock washer between a bearing and the gray sliders or it might have been the black aluminum top piece, can't remember I though i would remove the pedal block and remove the outside washer and lube everything. That would be my quickfix until ill buy a good shock then i would completly redo the linkage. Seems like ill be disassembling it day one when it comes. Otherwise the mainboard seat will get destroyed by the springwasher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fbhb Posted September 6, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 6, 2020 (edited) EcoDrift's Kingsong S18 Step By Step Suspension Overhaul (I have copied All the images and translated the Russian text from the following link: https://ecodrift.ru/2020/09/05/kingsong-s18-pereborka-podveski/) Today I will tell you about the wheel suspension bulkhead from the first batch. Perhaps in the next deliveries there will be some changes and improvements from the plant. Therefore, some details may differ in the future. I will not dwell on the dismantling of the electric unicycle. If you have any questions, then watch the video from Kingsong . After removing the top plastic, we will need to remove the cover that covers the controller and disconnect the terminals from the batteries. Then we press the power button to de-energize the capacitors We turn off the engine. We unscrew the batteries. We unscrew the part that Kingsong calls the “battery base” (and I call it “underpants”) by unscrewing the four bolts at the base in turn. Remove this base and batteries. We remove the wires. We lower the tire and take out the engine. Then we remove the casing. The suspension can be disassembled. First we spin the shock absorber axles. Very carefully unscrew the screws securing the links (golden levers). The metal is soft, so the splines can be easily ripped off. We extract two pairs of links. And we also untwist to release all bearings. We press out all bearings. A screw with a head slightly wider than 10mm is suitable for this. After pressing out, bearings are considered to be damaged and must be replaced with new ones. Some bearings fall apart directly during pressing. The seats must be cleared. The electric engraver can be used in combination with different attachments. Or you can take a knife, cut through the nodules and remove them with a screwdriver. The work is very painstaking and takes a lot of time. After removing the beads of aluminum and paint, the bore hole must be sanded. To make it smoother and remove paint. The central holes must be sanded more carefully so that the new bearings do not bite when rotating. It is not necessary to skin the seat on the edge of the link very much, otherwise the bearings will not be properly pressed in and will fall out.We put new bearings instead of old ones. With dimensions 19x10x5. (Type 61800 2RS, or 6800 2RS, or 6800 VRS). We need 14 bearings, the load on them is not significant, so I see no reason to look for some expensive and branded ones. To press in the bearings, a homemade press based on a hydraulic jack, some kind of metal platform and an end head of a suitable size (19mm) were used. This is very important, since it is necessary to press in strictly along the outer bearing race, without creating pressure on the inner one. Otherwise, the bearing will be damaged and must be replaced. Instead of a jack, you can use a long bolt or stud with two nuts and a set of washers of different diameters and sizes. The push-in force should not be too great, otherwise the bearings will wedge. If the bearings do not go well, then you need to sand the bore a little more.By the way, I recommend lubricating it with a neutral grease (silicone is the best) so that the bearing does not sour in the link over time. The steel-aluminum pair is very bad at this property. After pressing each bearing, I recommend checking how the links swing on them. Bearings need 14pcs, but I advise you to buy 20pcs at once in case of marriage when pressing. It is not recommended to overpress the bearings, as you press them out by the inner race, which creates excessive pressure, distortion and bites the balls. Such bearings are already considered unusable. The next step is to check the axle and sliders (gray iron parts of the suspension, otherwise “pants”). First, check that your axle has perfectly parallel mounting cuts and does not taper towards the edge. Then firmly attach the sliders to the axle in a regular manner. Make sure the sliders are exactly parallel Check how the pipes of the upper base go in the sliders (with a controller, otherwise “legs”). The pipes should move well and smoothly. Watch the gaps. If there are movement problems, then track the deviation. Find out which slider and how much is incorrect. After that, you need to carefully bore the groove for the axle on the slider. Some sliders come with a groove from the factory. Others don't. It is also possible that there will be a metal plate between the axis and the slider groove. Going forward, this helps align the engine in the arch so that it stands level.After grooving, we again fix the slider on the axis with the inserted pipes and, tightening 4 screws each by 1/6 of a turn, control the vertical position of the slider by constantly moving the pipes so that they do not get bitten. Several approaches may be needed. Not everyone has a milling machine at hand, so you need a good file and a vice so that the movements are maximally in the desired plane. Otherwise, you can easily spoil the part. Adjusting the sliders to the axle is also a very laborious and time-consuming process. But such a fit is not needed on all wheels. Somewhere the sliders straight from the factory are well matched.Pay attention to the photo above that the lower jaw, when clamping the axle, can also clamp the plastic anthers. If they are clamped, then they begin to put pressure on the pipes and also prevent them from moving. It is necessary to carefully work on these anthers with a file to create small indentations so that the sponge no longer presses on the boot. The next step is to install links. To assemble everything correctly, you need bushings. They would be best made from nylon. But, unfortunately, the details vary in size from instance to instance and it will be very difficult to guess the exact size. Therefore, I decided to just buy a sheet of fluoroplastic and, using a simple set of punches, make the necessary washers that will replace the bushings. To connect each pair of links, the washer must be of minimum thickness. To do this, you can take a sheet of fluoroplastic and flatten it with a heated iron or press it with a press. It is better to fill the washer first, and then flatten it. It will be easier and more efficient. Washer size: 14 × 10. From personal experience I can say that it is most convenient to work with a 2mm thick sheet. Place the resulting thin washer between the links. Let it not be embarrassing that it turned out not too neat. The main thing for us is to separate the outer cages of the mating bearings. There will be no significant load on the washer. Axle length 22mm, on it we have 4 bearings, i.e. 20mm and tapered washer about 0.2mm thick. Add another 2mm washer to keep it from loose. We tighten the axle screw (with a drop of the thread lock applied) until it stops. We check how one link is swinging on another. Now you need to fix the link in the upper eye of the base (where the controller is). Here we need to install 2 washers 2 times (4mm). We take the axle, string on two washers. Then we thread the axle into the bearing, add 2 more washers. Now we insert it into the eyelet. We drip a drop of the thread lock onto the screw and tighten it all the way. But it is important to tighten it so that there is no tension and the axle does not start pressing our fluoroplastic washers. Checking how our links work. Their movement should be light. Before further assembly, we thoroughly wipe and degrease the pipes so that they are clean. Apply some silicone grease and wipe it dry thoroughly with a separate microfiber cloth. Thus, we obtain a thin, practically dry layer of lubricant on the pipes, so that dust adheres to it as little as possible. The sliders can be additionally sprayed with dry fluoroplastic grease (Teflon grease). Now we put sliders on the pipes to secure the lower links. Again we take the axle and 3 washers to make 6mm. We insert the axis into the link bearings, and on the other side we string washers. After that we insert into the slider's eyelet. It turns out something like this. And we fix it with a screw with an applied thread lock. Checking the links. The sliders should move smoothly and without resistance. Then we connect the links with axles from the shock absorber and the installed spacers, but we do not install the shock absorber itself. Check the work again. Reinstall the protective cover. We put the engine on. And we fix the axis to the sliders. We check everything again. Sliders should move freely through the pipes. Now we turn to the so-called "battery base" (underpants/pedal hangers) Often during assembly, a problem occurs that the batteries rub against the protective casing. To improve this situation a little, I suggest using such spacers when attaching the battery. This is a pair of washers that give a little head start. The second point is that when tightening the fastening screws, you must use an aluminum bar that was originally there. The bar allows you to correctly orient the battery assemblies and prevent possible distortion. The main thing is not to forget to knock out this block later, otherwise the suspension will not work normally. We fasten the batteries so that they do not cling to the sliders. Check again how everything works. Then we connect the batteries and complete the wheel assembly. At the very end, we remove the axles for the shock absorber. Remember to cut one of the bushings that wedges into the shock ear. You can just sandpaper so that it rotates normally when installed. It is convenient to clamp it on the axis, install it in a screwdriver and simply twist it while pressing the sandpaper. Then we polish it a little. Do not forget to lubricate both bushings and install the shock absorber. Inflate the main camera to about 150psi so that the suspension straightens completely. We pump 50-60psi into the lower chamber. We install a plastic pumping bar, pump the main chamber to fit our weight. Once again we check how the suspension works, and you can go for a drive. All is ready. Edited September 6, 2020 by fbhb 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yon Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 good grief what have I let myself in for. Kingsong please take note and get mine sorted before you send it otherwise it shall be returned the same day as "not fit for purpose" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply_Striking Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 7 hours ago, yon said: good grief what have I let myself in for. Kingsong please take note and get mine sorted before you send it otherwise it shall be returned the same day as "not fit for purpose" Yup they should straight up, offer a hardware parts kit to resolve this, Also I am waiting to see what happens with the new batches that are being sent out before I put a down payment in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Feynman Posted September 7, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 7, 2020 I think I've landed on the final design after 5 or 6 iterations. The connections are completely tightened and there is almost no friction now. That's without lubing the rails or any other joints, and these are the test ABS bushings. Should be much better with the GF nylon bushings. Once I get the filament, print/ream the bushings, get everything back together and test it for a dozen miles or so I'll post a final parts list and can offer kits if anyone is interested since I have lots of extra parts. FinalDesign.mp4 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wilson Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Feynman said: I think I've landed on the final design after 5 or 6 iterations. The connections are completely tightened and there is almost no friction now. That's without lubing the rails or any other joints, and these are the test ABS bushings. Should be much better with the GF nylon bushings. Once I get the filament, print/ream the bushings, get everything back together and test it for a dozen miles or so I'll post a final parts list and can offer kits if anyone is interested since I have lots of extra parts. Thanks for doing all this work and sharing your results with everyone. Is GF nylon filament difficult to print? It looks like it requires a pretty high nozzle temperature. Do you know of any easy to print filaments that would work well? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feynman Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Mark Wilson said: Thanks for doing all this work and sharing your results with everyone. Is GF nylon filament difficult to print? It looks like it requires a pretty high nozzle temperature. Do you know of any easy to print filaments that would work well? In general, I think it's probably hard to print and would require some trial and error. I cheat and have a printer where they've done all this work for you - I just refer to the material list and load the appropriate settings. Regarding an easier to print material; I'm not sure. I see that delrin (POM, or acetal are other names for it) is available in filament now. I reached out to my printer company, but they haven't had good results with it, so I went with the glass fiber reinforce nylon. I could, and might, also try carbon fiber reinforced nylon. The downside to both gf and cf nylon is they're very expensive - ~ 4x the cost of PLA or ABS Edited September 7, 2020 by Feynman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wilson Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Just now, Feynman said: In general, I think it's probably hard to print and would require some trial and error. I cheat and have a printer where they've done all this work for you - I just refer to the material list and load the appropriate settings. Gotcha. I have a Creality Cr-10 and, if I remember correctly, if you try printing with a nozzle temp over 250 C you can damage the PTFE filament guide tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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