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KS16X locked up and wobbled me off at speed


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Hiya. New KS16X owner here who just had a big bad awful crash. I was riding along not a care in the world when I heard a barely audible warning which as soon as it ended the KS16X pretty much clamped down and did a wobble so hard it threw me off at 35. Now when I got over to the wheel after picking myself up from the road I found that it was locked. Beeping. Not rideable. 
 

basically what I think happened is that I had the gauge setting double tap setting set to lock/unlock the wheel. I’ve a feeling it’s gotten a double tap in my pocket somehow and locked up with me on it. 
 

is this even possible with EUC World?

if So it’s the most dangerous bug I’ve ever seen and need to warn everyone. But I’d love to hear back from a EUC world dev. 
 

any thoughts anyone?

Edited by Claire Chambers
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Welcome @Claire Chambers!

Hope you are doing well, or at leadt not too bad after this accident!

Just tried it with my KS16S V1 FW 2.02.

While riding (trolliing in this test case) and activating lock in EUC world under wheel settings the wheel starts immedeately to continously beep, but motor and balancing stays still activated. Only after shutting the wheel off and on again the motor gets deactivated.

If i choose lock/unlock on single tap action EUC World activates the lock only if the wheel is at standstill. But also here there is only continous beeping and the motor stays activated until the wheel is turned off and on again.

This is an important safety function of the wheels firmware, like the power button and trolley kill switch are deactivated while driving!

If anything like this could happen i'd consider this a serious wheels firmware bug!

But nevertheless, @Seba seems to have implemented in EUC world the same safety measure for tap actions. Just selecting lock from the wheel settings menu works without a speed check.

36 minutes ago, Claire Chambers said:

I was riding along not a care in the world when I heard a barely audible warning which as soon as it ended the KS16X pretty much clamped down and did a wobble so hard it threw me off at 35.

At my test the wheel was continously beeping once lock is activated. 

Is the wheel still working after the crash? Is it locked now, when you turn it on (continous beeps when moved and motor deactivated)? Can you unlock it again?

Maybe you want to try the same tests with licking/unlocking?

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Yeah it was still working after the crash. Hell it was fine. But locked. And as for constituents, I was on a smooth flat road barely any wind no potholes and no leaning. I was straightening up after carving a corner is all. Honestly I wasn’t pushing it or doing anything weird. I just hear this warning then BAM She’s HARD wobbling in a way I’ve never experienced (it was nothing like speed wobbles). I bailed. The wheel slowed and bumped into the gutter falling over. When I got to it and stood her up she was already lock beeping. I hadn’t touched the app to my knowledge but could have pocketdialed it. 

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I don't think that's related to EUC World. Locking and switching off the wheel don't work unless the wheel is stationary. And even if there were a bug in EUC World, I don't think the FW would allow that anyway. 

Are you sure it was locked after the crash? 

Was your wheel bought on Aliexpress by any chance? Might not be related, but worth asking. 

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No I bought from an Aussie distributor and yes she was definitely locked as soon as I got to her. Beeping like crazy and not balancing. I had to unlock it in the app to ride it home. My distributor thinks I probably locked it by double tap during or just after the crash. 

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11 minutes ago, Claire Chambers said:

I just hear this warning then BAM She’s HARD wobbling in a way I’ve never experienced (it was nothing like speed wobbles).

If the wheel lock got activated that'll mean the motor deactivated there would be no resistance from the pedals anymore. Imo that should lead to an immedeate fall and no wobbles? But i never had such an incident!

Maybe if you try to describe the incident with other words someone here could get a clue what's happened?

Or @Jack King Song could discuss this with the KS technicians if there is any chance for a firmware fault?

21 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Maybe you want to try the same tests with licking/unlocking?

Btw: i just also tried to put the lock/unlock action on the double tap, as you had. Same result as before - EUC World does not issue the lock command while the wheel is moving. It only works while the wheel is standing still.

My EUC World version:

Version 2.0.2

Built 19:25 05.08.2020

Maybe you double tapped the phone after the accident when the wheel was not moving anymore?

Did you log your ride? The csv log file could maybe give a clue of what happened!

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There is a fail safe in Kingsing wheels. It can't disengage the motor if you are moving (I don't recall the speed but maybe 3kmh). The control board will not react to locking or pushing turn off button in ride speeds. I seriously doubt EUC.WORLD can do it either.

Same with lift sensors if wheel is moving they can't disengage the motor but below the low threshold as in waiting at red light it can disengage. So stepping up will feel.like a cut-out as there is no balance. 

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Ok so not that then. Well I don't know. It deffo wasn't an overvolt alarm. It actually sounded like battery warning.  Though I was at 79% as soon as the verbal ended it clamped down HARD. Like a brake had come on. As soon as I tried slowing down that destabilized the clampin, making a HARD wobble I couldn't correct at all. 

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Sounds like it could have been a "please slow down" warning followed by a tilt back that might have been unsettling..
You don't need to go very fast but a hard acceleration can trigger an overload tiltback.

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Some (many) more (hopefully not too stupid sounding) questions...

9 minutes ago, Claire Chambers said:

Honestly the feeling was like an internal clamp or brake had come on.

I assume you checked the road for obstacles?

Or could it be that some pebble/root/branch/whatever came between wheel and shell, got stuck there for a moment and was thrown out again? Should have made quite some noise?

Was there pedal tilting involved? Or they just dipped forward a bit?

9 minutes ago, Claire Chambers said:

It just became impossible to control with tilt (acceleration/braking)

But the pedals stayed straight and did support you? Did you loose balance for a moment? Needed to regain balance/a normal stance  again?

9 minutes ago, Claire Chambers said:

and the second I did brake a lil (lean back a lil)It instantly WOBBLED HARD SIDE TO SIDE INCREASINGLY. 

(Stronger) braking can easily lead to such sideway wobbles. Especially on a new wheel. But as you write "just a little" this should not be the reason? Maybe in combination with some lost balance/strange stance after the incident?

2 minutes ago, null said:

Sounds like it could have been a "please slow down" warning followed by a tilt back that might have been unsettling..

You remember which tilt back speed was set at your KS16X?

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Tilt back was set to 45km. No this was no unbalanced wobble or anything going up into the wheel well. It was Clamping. Braking internally. It was wobbling then but my trying to slow down made that untenable worse. And no I perfectly recall the last word I head was warning. I thought "ttery warning"

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9 minutes ago, Claire Chambers said:

As I said I'm sending back to the distributor and hoping he finds the fault easily. Coz to be honest I think if he doesn't find a fault I'm never gonna trust it again. I was really really hurt. 

I fully understand you, as I also experienced mysterious wheel cutout. There are many reasons wheel can fail - an intermittent mainboard failure, wiring problem, firmware bug, Hall sensor failure to name just a few. I hope your distributor will find the cause and save your trust in this wheel.

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Sorry to hear about this crash and hope you make a speedy recovery. This underscores the all-too-oft-forgotten reality that EUC component failure presents significant risks to riders ( much more so than for most moving vehicles because of the self balance component ) which should remind us to be mindful about safety gear. There is little if no redundancy built-in to EUC tech and given the consequence of component failure, this will hopefully evolve over time. Of course redundancy means cost so maybe have to be careful what is wished for :-(

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