V11 - known issues and their status

[UniVehje]

16 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm beginning to think that maybe I'll stop accepting any pre-production units. Perhaps it's a waste of my time.

I agree. Especially on the OHH, you'll be just walking too much. And even for review purposes it's not very informative as so many details have changed. You even made a very informative video about the valve cap and mine didn't even ship with the same cap. The preproduction wheels should only be for early looks, not reviews or testing. But thank you for making the informative videos always, I enjoy watching them. Being a free beta tester is a different issue.

[Zopper]

48 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm beginning to think that maybe I'll stop accepting any pre-production units. Perhaps it's a waste of my time.

How about taking them more for beta testing than review? Put it through it's paces, take it up the hill... but don't bother with a detailed review of that unit. Just enjoy the new toy and throw us some crumbs.   And when there is a production unit for a real review, you don't need that much time to get used to it.

[Marty Backe]

56 minutes ago, Zopper said:

How about taking them more for beta testing than review? Put it through it's paces, take it up the hill... but don't bother with a detailed review of that unit. Just enjoy the new toy and throw us some crumbs.   And when there is a production unit for a real review, you don't need that much time to get used to it.

Technically speaking, I'm not reviewing the wheels (you don't see the word "Review" in my titles). I'm just riding them and testing some of their limits (not speed, for me).

[Chaotropic]

I think a lot depends on the stage in the game. 
 

it’s clear that the preproduction review process is critical for the large mass to see improvements to the production wheel. There is quite good engagement in these videos as well. 
 

The trade off is that after production wheels start to ship and/or production wheels start to differ greatly from the preproduction wheel the review value of the preproduction is greatly diminished. 

I haven’t been up on EUC’s for very long, but there seems to be a process improvement occurring between these “advertisers” and wheel companies. its almost like a cheap way for the companies to do a large scale testing. 
 

if it were my company I would be working directly with some of these advertisers for exposure, rigorous testing, etc. 1st batch, 2nd batch, etc. 

 

I’m going down a rabbit trail here, but this 3rd party evaluation process is not uncommon. Don’t motorcycle helmets opt for snell testing and what have you? Food manufacturing companies opt for certain audits (BRC, SQF, ISO- am a quality manager) 

There should a wheel certification. That would be fun to work through.  

[Zopper]

2 minutes ago, Chaotropic said:

There should a wheel certification. That would be fun to work through.  

Maybe. Maybe not, unless you like riding the exact same route the exact same way every day. And 3/4 of those tests would be done on treadmill and similar. I think that being a factory rider would be better than that.  

[Chaotropic]

12 minutes ago, Zopper said:

Maybe. Maybe not, unless you like riding the exact same route the exact same way every day. And 3/4 of those tests would be done on treadmill and similar. I think that being a factory rider would be better than that.  

Haha. Sorry fun to work through developing the standard, the tests, etc. Getting all the right people to buy in to. And Seeing a whole industry improve because of it. Maybe not actually performing the tests all the time. 
 

I bet that shit already exists or something that would be applicable for euc through standards in other industry. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Chaotropic

[GoGeorgeGo]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Many wheels have been tested by a lot of YouTuber's and they haven't failed.

Does Inmotion really need the entire wheel for failure analysis? Of course not. All they need is the control board because that's what failed. I think they have little interest in wanting to know what happened based on the fact that the production control board is "greatly improved".

I've going to take some quality pictures of my failed board and someday I may get to see a production board. I'll be curious to see how different it looks.

I'm beginning to think that maybe I'll stop accepting any pre-production units. Perhaps it's a waste of my time.

I think both of these companies really messed up by sending out unfinished units to the testing circuit.  Both have had so many changes and so many issues.  Why have people test a wheel if not even 6 months later it has entirely new components.  I understand wanting help testing the wheels, but personally i would have testers sign an NDA on test units and only allow video of production units.  

I get it, its all about stacking preorders and generating hype, but it can also have the opposite effect and scare away a ton of potential buisness based on preproduction reviews. 

I think with some simple advertisements these wheels would have hyped themselves up, there was no need to let youtubers abuse incomplete models and show off flaws of machines that you cant possibly buy. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by GoGeorgeGo

[Chaotropic]

4 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

I think both of these companies really messed up by sending out unfinished units to the testing circuit.  Both have had so many changes and so many issues.  Why have people test a wheel if not even 6 months later it has entirely new components.  I understand wanting help testing the wheels, but personally i would have testers sign an NDA on test units and only allow video of production units.  

I get it, its all about stacking preorders and generating hype, but it can also have the opposite effect and scare away a ton of potential buisness based on preproduction reviews. 

I think with some simple advertisements these wheels would have hyped themselves up, there was no need to let youtubers abuse incomplete models and show off flaws of machines that you cant possibly buy. 

I think if it was communicated as such it would have been even more interesting to watch. The public could have been a part of that improvement process. Without being so annoyed that the wheels weren’t already on their way.

 

Say we knew that preproduction and production would be vastly different.  What if they didn’t even announce production dates yet. That preproduction public beat down was very fun and interesting to watch. Each video and its evidence was an iteration and improvement. Ive never seen something like that before. It was really neat to see the public be so influential to a finished product. 

 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Chaotropic said:

I think a lot depends on the stage in the game. 
 

it’s clear that the preproduction review process is critical for the large mass to see improvements to the production wheel. There is quite good engagement in these videos as well. 
 

The trade off is that after production wheels start to ship and/or production wheels start to differ greatly from the preproduction wheel the review value of the preproduction is greatly diminished. 

I haven’t been up on EUC’s for very long, but there seems to be a process improvement occurring between these “advertisers” and wheel companies. its almost like a cheap way for the companies to do a large scale testing. 
 

if it were my company I would be working directly with some of these advertisers for exposure, rigorous testing, etc. 1st batch, 2nd batch, etc. 

 

I’m going down a rabbit trail here, but this 3rd party evaluation process is not uncommon. Don’t motorcycle helmets opt for snell testing and what have you? Food manufacturing companies opt for certain audits (BRC, SQF, ISO- am a quality manager) 

There should a wheel certification. That would be fun to work through.  

It's your word choice of course, but I don't like that word. I for one am not being paid to advertise any wheel that I ride or test. I just love riding EUC's and I have enough of an audience that I'm given (sometimes) early access.

[Chaotropic]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

It's your word choice of course, but I don't like that word. I for one am not being paid to advertise any wheel that I ride or test. I just love riding EUC's and I have enough of an audience that I'm given (sometimes) early access.

And it’s unfortunate, because you should be. That’s why I chose the word. I suppose it’s a philosophical thing, and if it were my company, you would be properly compensated. The best way to improve is to get real honest review of the product. 
 

If it wasn’t for the these community you tubers, I for one would not have spent my hard earned money on a single EUC. It is likely I am not the only one. 

There is huge value you and others provide for these companies.
 

Its even better that you have a passion so that you can give that honest feedback (all the more reason pay you!!)

[musk]

I love hearing the thoughts of enthusiasts like Marty.  If he can have a bit of fun while also providing commentary to the community, it's a win-win. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by musk

[Spinner]

12 hours ago, UniVehje said:

I agree. Especially on the OHH, you'll be just walking too much. And even for review purposes it's not very informative as so many details have changed. You even made a very informative video about the valve cap and mine didn't even ship with the same cap. The preproduction wheels should only be for early looks, not reviews or testing. But thank you for making the informative videos always, I enjoy watching them. Being a free beta tester is a different issue.

 

11 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Technically speaking, I'm not reviewing the wheels (you don't see the word "Review" in my titles). I'm just riding them and testing some of their limits (not speed, for me).

You’re not wasting your time, Marty. You, Duf, Kuji and Chooch have so much experience with wheels I’m always interested in your feedback and right now for the V11, even though you won’t order one, your riding impressions as well as the others made me keep my preorder. There won’t be any overheat hills in my vicinity. 👍thanks for your efforts they are much appreciated 

 

oops sorry Univehje didn’t mean to reply to that one but won’t change it now. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Spinner

[IamIan]

10 hours ago, Chaotropic said:

if it were my company, you would be properly compensated.

The best way to improve is to get real honest review of the product.

Provide a valuable service .. that benefits OEM , Sellers , Customers , etc .. should be rewarded / compensated / etc for that valuable content .. Absolutely!

but

Paid advertising is not usually known for being 'honest' .. and if .. like using white glue instead of milk (because it photos/videos better) .. that would destroy ~99% of the value of that conent.

 

Soo .. that creates a dichotomy

[Zopper]

I've updated the saddle screws breaking issue. The fix will be for a late 2nd batch at the earliest. Certainly not the early 2nd batch that goes out now. (Liam on Telegram said that they didn't settled it yet, but they are likely to go with the metal insert to reinforce it.)

[LorenW]

 

4 hours ago, IamIan said:

Provide a valuable service .. that benefits OEM , Sellers , Customers , etc .. should be rewarded / compensated / etc for that valuable content .. Absolutely!

but

Paid advertising is not usually known for being 'honest' .. and if .. like using white glue instead of milk (because it photos/videos better) .. that would destroy ~99% of the value of that conent.

 

Soo .. that creates a dichotomy

 

Marty and so many other reviewers provide such an amazing service to the community at large.

I echo the comment that without the efforts, knowledge, and expertise of the reviewers on this forum and on YouTube, I probably would not have purchased the five EUCs that I have purchased over the years.

That being said, the issue of compensation for reviews, trust in reviews and ethics is a very tricky one.

When the audience knows (or thinks) a reviewer is being directly compensated for their review, then there is uncertainty about whether they can be trusted.

But there are ways to handle this.

One of the best discussions of this issue that I have seen is this one. It is from a technology reviewer with 11.8 million subscribers on YouTube... and he talks about how he handles being a reviewer, and gives examples from other reviewers and how they handle this tricky terrain. He defines and makes distinctions between "reviews", "sponsored videos", and "brand collaborations", and discusses how he handles them:

 

 

[StuartL]

This is valuable (and complex) discussion, may I ask that it moves to its own thread so as not to pollute this one?

[Tryptych]

Per Liam yesterday, no replacement parts will be sent to Batch 1 and 2 owners that have known issues.

Yesterday Liam twice avoided answering the same question about "metal hole" saddles.  From what I understand this means hundreds of people in batch 2 will be receiving wheels with weak plastic on the saddle that will not last. They are expected to ride the wheel until it falls apart - then contact their distributor for warranty coverage.  Same with the bearings on batch 1. This is not the answer I was hoping for - I have very little faith in my distributor being able to resolve any of these problems.

 

[Zopper]

13 minutes ago, Tryptych said:

Per Liam yesterday, no replacement parts will be sent to Batch 1 and 2 owners that have known issues.

Yesterday Liam twice avoided answering the same question about "metal hole" saddles.  From what I understand this means hundreds of people in batch 2 will be receiving wheels with weak plastic on the saddle that will not last. They are expected to ride the wheel until it falls apart - then contact their distributor for warranty coverage.  Same with the bearings on batch 1. This is not the answer I was hoping for - I have very little faith in my distributor being able to resolve any of these problems.

Well, replacement parts from manufacturer might be nice, but it is a luxury and bonus you see only rarely and certainly I won't hold a grudge against IM because they won't ship parts en masse to people all around the world. It's the distributor's role to take care of this - that's what they are for. Also, he did answer the question about metal inserts and said that they don't have a finalised fix yet. 

Anyway, if you can't trust your distributor, that's bad. I guess you can only wait few months, like Marty said.

[maxtreme]

Hello everyone. I got this problem. I need to find out the marking of the element in my V11. Who can help with this issue? https://ibb.co/p1Gv7Qs

Edited April 21, 2021 by Chriull
Link repaired

[Zopper]

39 minutes ago, maxtreme said:

Hello everyone. I got this problem. I need to find out the marking of the element in my V11. Who can help with this issue? https://ibb.co/p1Gv7Qs

@mrelwood might have good pics.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Zopper

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, maxtreme said:

Hello everyone. I got this problem. I need to find out the marking of the element in my V11. Who can help with this issue? https://ibb.co/p1Gv7Qs

If you clean the broken/remaining surface parts of the (most probable?) transistor maybe you can identify (some parts of) the marking. And/compare it with the similar sized transistors nearby.

[mrelwood]

6 hours ago, maxtreme said:

Hello everyone. I got this problem. I need to find out the marking of the element in my V11. Who can help with this issue? https://ibb.co/p1Gv7Qs

I’m sorry, I can’t make anything out of it no matter how I point the light. The lacquer must be filling the etching.

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by mrelwood

[Unventor]

9 hours ago, maxtreme said:

Hello everyone. I got this problem. I need to find out the marking of the element in my V11. Who can help with this issue? https://ibb.co/p1Gv7Qs

I had a problem on my bms of one of my batteries.

So you might be aware of this but in general there are a few reasons you can't read components markings.

I start listing a few reasons and then get into what might help you. I am however not sure it helps you.

1) To avoid easy copying of your design/constructions.

2) To prevent repairs from unauthorised service staff.

3) It was never designed for components repairs.

4) Surface treatment to protect the electronics.

5) Adhesive materials to avoid mechanical disconnections.

So either no markings are on the components or steps has been taken to hide it on purpose or foreign material is added. 

So what can you do about this? Sometimes you can get lucky other time nothing you can help you.

If you remove the surface treatment you need to be very careful how to go about this. And you need to consider if it is a live board/component too.

Contacts with a reseller that know their stuff might help. Like a picture of a new part that is untreated or have no cover materials.

The old kid trick of tracing "hidden text" with paper and pencil can sometimes help out with things you do not see immediately with your eyes.

Also you need to consider revision/iteration changes.

I know I couldn't give you specific answer. I do hope I could give inspiration that help you.

On the other hand depending on card versions a new control board despite being costly might be a bad idea.

This is why I am very seriously considering buying a new batch V11 as my V11 1st batch is different and missing the improvement made by Inmotion.  And to avoid long downtime waiting for part or tire swaps for season changes. I found I am so dependent on the suspension due to bad knees that having 2x V11 makes very much sense to me vs having 1st batch V11 and KS16X.So I am likely to sell my KS16X in very near feature. 

 

[overkiel]

I have an issue where sometimes when I pick up my V11 while pressing on the anti spin button under the handle, the wheel will start spinning FULL SPEED and beeping, it can't be stopped which is insane. I can press/unpress the anti-spin button as many times as I want, or keep the power button pressed down to shut off and nothing ever happens, it just keeps spinning full speed and beeping (I'm guessing it's the max speed limit beep)

The only way to stop it is to place it on the floor where it'll smoke the tire and slow down leaving a nice black tire mark wherever I'm lucky enough to experience that.

This seems dangerous and definitely not a pleasant experience as it happens randomly. The first time I experienced something like this was a quick test on ice, it started spinning uncontrollably until it touched a grippy surface.

Is this a known issue? Anyone else have this happen? I wish it'd be fixed relatively soon

[AtlasP]

On 6/4/2021 at 4:34 PM, overkiel said:

I have an issue where sometimes when I pick up my V11 while pressing on the anti spin button under the handle, the wheel will start spinning FULL SPEED and beeping, it can't be stopped which is insane. I can press/unpress the anti-spin button as many times as I want, or keep the power button pressed down to shut off and nothing ever happens, it just keeps spinning full speed and beeping (I'm guessing it's the max speed limit beep)

The only way to stop it is to place it on the floor where it'll smoke the tire and slow down leaving a nice black tire mark wherever I'm lucky enough to experience that.

This seems dangerous and definitely not a pleasant experience as it happens randomly. The first time I experienced something like this was a quick test on ice, it started spinning uncontrollably until it touched a grippy surface.

Is this a known issue? Anyone else have this happen? I wish it'd be fixed relatively soon

You have to make sure to depress the button fully and hear the beep before you lift. If you try to push the button and lift the wheel up simultaneously, any movement of the wheel before the button is fully depressed can cause it to accelerate in an effort to right itself (as if it were being ridden)--and over a certain speed the button becomes disabled (so you can't grab the handle and cause a cutoff/crash while riding).

Also this is not unique to the V11 and happens with many/most wheel cutoff switches.

Edited June 6, 2021 by AtlasP