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S18, V11, Nikola, something else: A brain dump


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I've been riding a few years, mostly on the V10F but more recently on the MSX.  I have sold the MSX as I found the width and pedal position uncomfortable for my body geometry, it always felt like riding a horse!

I ride mostly offroad (woodland trails, farm tracks etc) and originally bought the MSX to benefit from the larger diameter wheel.  Both the V10F and the MSX are terrible on the farm tracks as the continuous heavy undulations from cattle, horses etc cause the wheel (and hence my knees) to bounce around like I'm standing on an unbalanced washing machine!  Tyre pressures can be tinkered to help with this but...

For this reason I sold the MSX aiming to get a suspension wheel (yoyoing between the V11 and S18 repeatedly) but am now second-guessing my choices.

Things that are important to me:

  • Offroad performance: A complex balance between stability, weight, torque, wheel size, tyre profile, etc.
  • Range: I need to comfortably travel around 25 miles offroad on one charge.  I do not need the long range of large battery wheels.
  • Speed: I wish to comfortably travel 20-25mph.  I have no desire for high speeds.
  • Weight: I need to be able to comfortably lift the wheel in/out the boot (trunk) of the car.  The Sherman is out for this reason.
  • Onroad performance: I must be able to ride onroad for shopping trips.  Therefore the wheel must also have a usable trolley handle.

I settled originally on the S18 and figured that I would accept that King Song's approach to firmware releases and build quality was a cost of having a great offroad wheel.  The recent geolocking scandal and KingSong's response to it have put me off King Song completely.  I know that wheels like the 16S, 16X and 18XL are great wheels in their own right but I can't bring myself to invest large amounts of money in a brand who have consistently demonstrated that they care more about selling wheels than building quality products.

To me this leaves only two brands to choose from.  I *love* my V10F, I think it's a wonderful all-round wheel that does nothing perfectly but everything well.  I've had it apart a couple of times for tyre changes and the build quality is superb.  Gotway also make a lot of possible candidates but Gotway tend to make lower-wider wheels which just don't work for my body geometry.

I have two concerns over the V11 (which I otherwise lust after like a teenage boy): 1) The weight.  2) The suspension setup doesn't look ideal for my offroad use.  In fact I can see that the combination of the weight and the suspension setup may even make it harder for me to pick the wheel up over branches/holes, something that I do relatively easily with the V10F.

I hear stories that the Tesla and Nikola are both great on-road wheels but not suitable off road.  The MSX (and therefore the MSP, EX, etc) is just plain uncomfortable for me.

So, here's my question: What haven't I thought of?  If you discount KingSong as a brand what is actually viable?

TIA!

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If you think that the V11 suspension system would not be suitable for off-road, you need to watch Chooch’s S18 vs V11 comparison. Nuff said.

 The weight difference between S18 and V11 production versions is 2-3kg. Compared to the MSX, the handle design being so much more comfortable, the whole wheel much more narrow, and the handle being higher from the ground make it feel not any heavier than the MSX, said someone in a review. I can compare it to the MSX tomorrow myself!

 The situation is that the first ever two EUCs have just reached the first customers. If you want a wheel with suspension, those are the options, or wait for a year in case better options come around.

 To me it sounds like the V11 is already much closer to your ideal wheel than most EUC purchases that’s been currently made. Yes it’s heavier than I’d like. But so many other aspects are spot on and many even beyond, that I’m absolutely certain that I will love the wheel like no wheel of mine has been loved before.

 Seriously, check the Chooch’s video. The V11 suspension could even be a better match to your needs than the S18’s.

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Your list of wants with the wherl isn't far off mine. I use my wheels instead of car these days. The past year I drove just less than 1000km. I  am so close to selling the car and go EUC only. 

My V11 is comming today so I am  closer to share thought on that compared to my current wheels.

Now there is an outside but we don't know much about it Inmotion have a V12 in the pipeline. Set release very late this year or maybe early next year. We really don't know much about it. 

But with that said I think the V11 is a great wheel for many riders. But we could see that expand further once Inmotion show the accessories they are working on. Like sidepads, seat, bt sound and side lights, even new hex pedals are ready soon. 

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Mr mrelwood 
You always write relevant and spot on, Thx for that.  I wathched all Choochs videos and I believe the message is:

Inmotion v11 off roading is fast, sturdy and damned good. Smooth as butter, strong uphill too
Kingsong s18 Urban is good for jumping and fun. But it cuts off at 45 degree.  (unsafe?) 

So elegantly he reversed the Idea of Inmotion v11 being all round urban wheel and Kingsong s18 being king of the off road trails.  To me its important that he says: He found a "Sweet mountaintrack for Inmotion v11...." I assume its not for jumping but for speeding off road, and since the Inmotion v11 have stronger motor it wins on this track  it needs better contact point pad like shown here on the pix.  
 

 

Skærmbillede fra 2020-08-13 13-35-35.png

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Inmotion is a better "racer"  ... which is exactly what Im not into.  Overall speed is great on Inmotion v11  5 minutes into the film  https://youtu.be/8z9-N7RGiqA?t=296 

Speed is important for Chooch in urban seetings (and other settings too)  This video to me is saying "Both wheels are very nice, but to me speed is important, now bent you knees and dont get lazy" (Very good message btw... Im also a skiinstructor ... From Denmark which is a joke)    

 

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To confuse matters further: I've actually considered getting a V8F instead of one of the more expensive wheels and use that for road or light trail riding, using my V10F for off roading.  This doesn't solve the desire for suspension but it's a solution that's half the price of the suspension wheels.

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With the new wider tire and small 16" diameter, the V8F might be surprisingly good for what you need. Low range and max speed but probably excellent torque. Good pedal height too. You might want to watch MadPack's recent videos about the V8F. I believe he does talk about off road / grass riding.

How about MCM5 V2? Never tried it myself. It's a 14" diameter but I find that 2,5" wide tires handle great off road. Plus you get an 800wh battery and much more headroom for max speed.

Edited by Kryziss
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1 hour ago, StuartL said:

To confuse matters further: I've actually considered getting a V8F instead of one of the more expensive wheels and use that for road or light trail riding, using my V10F for off roading.  This doesn't solve the desire for suspension but it's a solution that's half the price of the suspension wheels.

I basically think having 2 wheels is a better option than investing all money on one wheel. 

It gives yoa contingency plan when charging or if one breaks down.

It gives you more options. But the down side is less price pr wheel equals less range, less power in motor and battery.

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5 hours ago, StuartL said:

farm tracks

continuous heavy undulations from cattle, horses etc

I think I know the surface type you're talking about. Not bike paths, not even hiking paths, just access paths for farming equipment and livestock.

Sorry mate, lumpy fieldgrass is a surface that's awful on almost any machine. If it's bad on a mountainbike, it's bad on any unicycle. I think you'll need to adjust your expectations.

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1 minute ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Sorry mate, lumpy fieldgrass is a surface that's awful on almost any machine. If it's bad on a mountainbike, it's bad on any unicycle. I think you'll need to adjust your expectations.

Hehe, it's a fair point.  It's the kind of surface wh-e-re yo-u ca-n't tal-k w-ith-out yo-ur voic-e sh-a-k-ing.

Suspension could make a little difference though, taking the sharpest part of the bumps.  Despite this I'm now thinking of changing my expectations completely and going light (V8 or V8F) as a temporary solution and see where the suspension units land in 6-12 months.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts so far, please do keep them coming if you have more, especially if you think there's a wheel I should be considering.

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12 hours ago, Unventor said:

I basically think having 2 wheels is a better option than investing all money on one wheel.

I’m not so sure about that. Two mediocre wheels means you only get to ride a mediocre wheel. Having a spare wheel does make some sense, but during the two years and 13000+ km on the MSX I have used a spare only once when waiting for a new control board. People who don’t try to climb their 210lbs torso up stupendously steep hills wouldn’t have needed the spare at all. You really don’t need to ask me if I’d have rather been without the spare vs riding with two V8Fs...

V8F is actually a bit of a tough one. It’s way too expensive to function as a cheap learner when waiting for a main wheel, but it’s still a small, low powered and low range wheel. If it serves your needs and wants, you’ll be fine. If it doesn’t, your investment was not a good one.

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Well my point is the V8f is a light wheels and very functional. It can take a learners beating. Option for a cover the take the worst scratches.  

Once you are ready to move on you can choose to keep it and you are having a better understanding of your needs and wants. It also gives you input why you might invest more in next wheel. As it is right now latest wheels are being ironed out and once this is done that is likely when you move on if EUC got you hooked. Note: it is very dangerous to get hooked or even bitten. I just got my 5th wheel.I sold my V8 but that was due to needing lods of repairs and I wanted to upgrade anyway. A local rider bought it as parts and repaired it. I sold it cheap as it freed up cash to my KS18L. But I so wished I had a second wheel. I have been slightly unlucky with accidents and 1st batches. Not all get into these non-wheel situations. But my V10f was bought only to cope with what my KS16X couldn't do, the weather and to be a "light" wheel when I need a more portable solution.

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Just for clarification, this isn't for me to learn on.  I've been riding two years :D  I'm looking for a second wheel primarily so that my gf and I can go out together.  If it gives me a better (different/interesting) off-road experience that's good too :)

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/14/2020 at 3:04 PM, StuartL said:

Just for clarification, this isn't for me to learn on.  I've been riding two years :D  I'm looking for a second wheel primarily so that my gf and I can go out together.  If it gives me a better (different/interesting) off-road experience that's good too :)

Well it all depends on what kind of terrain youll be riding. Ill give you some ultimatum advice. :D

1. If youre heavy weight, just go with V11. Its a better choice in this case.

2. If the terrain is really rough then no other choice but S18. 

You cant go wrong with either but only buy second batch s18/v11.

If what you ride look like the terrain on first video then go for V11.

If you want to ride trails like in the second video then go for S18.

 

Edited by eve
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12 minutes ago, StuartL said:

Thanks everyone.  I'm awaiting delivery of the V11 :D

After riding my V11 a few weeks now. I have finally decided to sell my car. It should give you an idea how different this wheel is to me. I am kind of sorry to see the car go, but I drove until this weekend (and a year back) only 1000 km.

Last year I had 2nd year service end September, mileage was 8340km, I just hit 9400km this Friday. it is getting to be 3 years old. EUCs are just more practical and convenient for me and to what I do have of transportation needs.

I don’t think I see yet someone that truly disliked the V11 yet. I really like it, my best wheel by far even in 1st edition.

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