Attention: Aliexpress/Chinese KS wheel locks!

[Chriull]

Edit: Official KS announcment:

 

KS locks actively all wheels with a P in the serial number - these are the wheels intended for the chinese market and sold by aliexpress resellers.

Like: KSS181D200810P006

Any such KS wheel with production date from July 2020 on will be rendered useless, wheels dated before will be unlocked again by @Jack King Song. See his contact details(1) in his post announcing this:

The wheels will be locked by the KS apps.

As these wheels are shipped locked and cannot be unlocked with any app they are unusable! Don't miss the dispute deadline on aliexpress! Don't trust in any reseller promises - once the dispute period is gone the money is lost!

Check the serial number before buying a used KS wheel!

EUC World and Darknessbot will not be able to unlock or update these wheels - just the original KS app can achieve this for wheels before 2020 if personally unlocked by @Jack King Song!

Discussion regarding this topic can be followed/joined in https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/19378-warning-kingsong-products/

(1)

Either a personal message to @Jack King Song here on the forum, or, as he states:"

I have too many notifications so even when I do come back to the forum I miss out accidentally on replying to some. If you need immediate support:

Direct Message us: https://www.facebook.com/kingsong.international/
Telegram Message me:  https://t.me/jackattack326

Telegram Chat: https://t.me/kingsonginternational

"

Edited August 14, 2020 by Chriull

[null]

Good to get a clarification on what the terms are. Previously they where locking them while pretending they didn’t.

To me this means I won’t buy or recommend Kingsong products anymore.

A loss for both parties, I like their « overall package » approach and am directly responsible for three 18xl and a 16s sale, as well as a few online recommendations. 

[fbhb]

[EldARon]

It's sad that Kingsong goes after it's customers and not the shops/dealer that sell it. If they don't, they should record witch seller gets witch serial number and ban that seller if he sells outside of Chine. Not go after a customer. It's not the customers fault that the seller/dealer breaches the contract with Kingsong.

[Bhala]

Sometimes but not often can you just sit along and vitnes a complete company harakiri.. This might be such a time. 

 

Many will be burnt buying used wheels too. They didnt think this through.

[AngryJackPCB]

This saddens me as well. As I love my 16X, I was looking at the 18S as my next wheel. No more though. Company support is paramount. Without it, we are buying $2,000+ paper weights.

Thank goodness my fist purchase and all future purchases will be through Ewheels.com where I know everyone who has purchased from @Jason is more than satisfied.

[Ben Hatfield]

the whole John Deer tractor thing is bad enough, where owners have to download custom (illegal) firmware so they can gain access to their own purchased vehicle for diagnostics and repairs (I haven't read up on this in a long time, so not sure where JD is at this point on this).  It is a chickenshit way of doing business where some executive throws out all real world situations and arbitrarily chooses to F over the customer for some illusion of control over their products - post sale.  It is a reason to not purchase a product.  If KS is wise, they will back off of this asap.  It will likely effect their bottom line. 

People should freak out when companies do stuff like this - otherwise the future of all EV's will include DRM BS.  Gotta try to keep some companies on the right track of building independent vehicles that the owner has complete control over once purchased.  Gotta respect Gotway and their approach along these lines

[SamSuffit]

ANUMME (french union of PLEV users) just sent this email to KingLock, oups , i meant KingSong....

For the ones interested in the links provided (by the way, is there any lawyer on the forum?):

• Europe:  Commission condemns obstacles of parallel trade https://t.co/681tzzuGC1
• US: US supreme court decision on grey market: https://t.co/hwj3gB8M0s 
• China: Guangzhou Intellectual Property Court regarding grey market: https://t.co/W0ECIemFwC

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by SamSuffit
format

[Alj]

What other pleasant surprises KS app holds for the future? Uninstalling it.... just in case. Also not buying KS product again in a fear of it being a ticking paperweight.

[Alj]

On 8/16/2020 at 8:06 PM, Ben Hatfield said:

the whole John Deer tractor thing is bad enough, where owners have to download custom (illegal) firmware so they can gain access to their own purchased vehicle for diagnostics and repairs (I haven't read up on this in a long time, so not sure where JD is at this point on this). 

John Deere thing is mostly cherry-picked stuff taken out of content, here's an explanation from one of the Right to Repair guys himself. It is not as bad as it sounds. 

 

[Peters]

Kingsong should fix their supply chain / retail network instead of punishing consumers who dont know anything about such politics or policies.
Its like buying a car in France and you drive it to Germany... then it stops in the middle of the road since its outside of its supposed purchased country.
Major blow to consumer protection and rights and will very badly impact Kingsong fans.... negatively!
I was going to buy S18 for my next EUC. Sorry to say, looking at other brands now. Very SAD day for consumers !
 

[EUC_GiO]

Kingsong doesnt have to please anybody. KS has every right to block sale and block support to any third party sellers that are not authorized and for buyers who think they can get away with it. KS shouldnt have to be responsible for a buyers ignorance if they bought it off on AliExpress 3rd party because they wanted to save a few bills. How KS determine which 3rd party seller they support is strictly under their right and discretion. Tesla, Apple etc companies also do the same thing. I dont really understand the big fuss, they have every right to protect their intellectual properties. Buyers are free to choose whatever product they want to support/buy and in terms of brand loyalty thats just some fairy nonsense. You choose a product based on what your pocket dictates and features. If you dont like how KS is doing their business, you are certainly within your right to complain and be dissatisfied. Whether they listen or ignore then that is also within their right. Unless you are a stock holder of their company then thats a different story. Take your money elsewhere, its not rocket science stop bullying KS to comply with your dissatisfaction. Imagine if ALL EUC manufacturers decided to copy KingSong's lock mechanism. Will everyone stop buying EUC? I highly doubt it.

[mrelwood]

22 minutes ago, EUC_GiO said:

KS has every right to block sale and block support

The issue was never with getting support. And everyone agrees, they should block their sales channel. But instead of doing that, they tamper with our property. Don’t you see the difference?

22 minutes ago, EUC_GiO said:

Tesla, Apple etc companies also do the same thing.

No they don’t. I’ve used only iPhones since the 3G, used and new, and Apple has never remotely locked my phone.

22 minutes ago, EUC_GiO said:

I dont really understand the big fuss, they have every right to protect their intellectual properties.

The fuss is about the end customer protecting their own physical property. Maybe you haven’t read on the subject very much?

22 minutes ago, EUC_GiO said:

You choose a product based on what your pocket dictates and features.

The features of my KS wheel drastically changed 3 years after purchase when it suddenly turned into a paperweight. Only for four days, but still, someone taking control of my property or main means of transport for four days is not acceptable to me. By a long shot.

22 minutes ago, EUC_GiO said:

Unless you are a stock holder of their company then thats a different story.

Having KS stocks wouldn’t change anything.

22 minutes ago, EUC_GiO said:

Take your money elsewhere

The discussion exists exactly to inform people so they can decide to do that.

22 minutes ago, EUC_GiO said:

Imagine if ALL EUC manufacturers decided to copy KingSong's lock mechanism. Will everyone stop buying EUC? I highly doubt it.

Of course they wouldn’t. Then we would have no choice. Now we do have. But the choice has to be informed, through these discussions.

[Peters]

16 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The issue was never with getting support. And everyone agrees, they should block their sales channel. But instead of doing that, they tamper with our property. Don’t you see the difference?

No they don’t. I’ve used only iPhones since the 3G, used and new, and Apple has never remotely locked my phone.

The fuss is about the end customer protecting their own physical property. Maybe you haven’t read on the subject very much?

The features of my KS wheel drastically changed 3 years after purchase when it suddenly turned into a paperweight. Only for four days, but still, someone taking control of my property or main means of transport for four days is not acceptable to me. By a long shot.

Having KS stocks wouldn’t change anything.

The discussion exists exactly to inform people so they can decide to do that.

Of course they wouldn’t. Then we would have no choice. Now we do have. But the choice has to be informed, through these discussions.

Well Said mrelwood ! Well Said !

Only thing Id add would be..... that I would end up purchasing an ebike or escooter (which from what i know do not tamper with private property) if all EUC manufacturer decides to imposes lock mechanism. All these electric last mile vehicles accomplish the same task, so Im form factor agnostic. Further, they are likely safe since it 2 wheeled so more reason to buy 2 wheeled electric last mile vehicle. 

 

[Lex Smith]

Wow!  So glad I joined this forum otherwise wouldn't have been aware of this issue with KIng Song locking their wheels - was literally about to buy one.  Back to the evaluation process now minus any King Song products.   Are there any other EUC manufacturers likely to adopt this measure?

[Tawpie]

uhm, this only applies to KS wheels that have a "P" at the end of the serial number. KS has been very clear about this, check their website. A wheel purchased from the authorized supply chain will not be locked, so unless you have fundamental objections to how KS has chosen to enforce their supply chain agreements you have no additional cause for concern.

[Californian]

On 10/26/2020 at 9:11 PM, EUC_GiO said:

Kingsong doesnt have to please anybody. KS has every right to block sale and block support to any third party sellers that are not authorized and for buyers who think they can get away with it. KS shouldnt have to be responsible for a buyers ignorance if they bought it off on AliExpress 3rd party because they wanted to save a few bills. How KS determine which 3rd party seller they support is strictly under their right and discretion. Tesla, Apple etc companies also do the same thing. I dont really understand the big fuss, they have every right to protect their intellectual properties. Buyers are free to choose whatever product they want to support/buy and in terms of brand loyalty thats just some fairy nonsense. You choose a product based on what your pocket dictates and features. If you dont like how KS is doing their business, you are certainly within your right to complain and be dissatisfied. Whether they listen or ignore then that is also within their right. Unless you are a stock holder of their company then thats a different story. Take your money elsewhere, its not rocket science stop bullying KS to comply with your dissatisfaction. Imagine if ALL EUC manufacturers decided to copy KingSong's lock mechanism. Will everyone stop buying EUC? I highly doubt it.

This doesn't "protect their intellectual property" in any way, it's about enforcing sales agreements. "Rights" aren't universal, so it's a bit silly to claim they are "within their rights" to do anything -- they could probably make wheels designed intentionally to seriously harm their international users and not face any repercussions legally, since they're an international company operating outside of the jurisdiction of any local courts. Just because you can't sue them for something doesn't mean it's an ethical practice, and in my opinion this is an extremely unethical way to enforce any sales agreements -- both because they punish a party not involved in the sales agreement (the end user) and because of software DRM/firmware control in general. If people continue dismissing issues like this as trivial, society will be in store for much more prevalent long-term-consumer-hostile behavior going forward.

I had an S18 (deposit) in my cart on ewheels, but I'm seriously considering a V11 instead because of this. Has the company issued any recent statements about this?

[Tawpie]

Vote with your pocketbook, it’s the only leverage you have.

I guess since it’s been a couple of years since KS made it clear they would lock wheels obtained on the grey market, I’d put the onus on the buyer… getting something for less money only happens because you’re willing to assume more risk—in this case you should know you might get a wheel subject to the lock.

But if you want a KS product, pay the extra money and buy it from an authorized reseller and you have nothing to worry about! Plus you’ll have some access to support, and that’s not something to dismiss lightly.

[mrelwood]

25 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Vote with your pocketbook, it’s the only leverage you have.

Agreed.

25 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I guess since it’s been a couple of years since KS made it clear they would lock wheels obtained on the grey market, I’d put the onus on the buyer…

Announcing something at a enthusiast forum or even at their own web page doesn’t change the laws of owning or harming individually owned physical property one bit, and in my books doesn’t do much to the moral side of things either. If you buy a product, do you generally check if an enthusiast discussion forum exists and search for all possible relevant topics, and do you check if the manufacturer has some completely absurd announcement buried somewhere at their badly outdated webpage? A customer can’t be expected to do any if that, on any market segment.

25 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

getting something for less money only happens because you’re willing to assume more risk

Getting something for less money happens because the customer compares the pricing of different sellers. It has nothing inherent to do with risk. EUCO and Ewheels surely have different pricings. No risk involved choosing the cheaper one.

25 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

—in this case you should know you might get a wheel subject to the lock.

Absolutely not! It isn’t anywhere near reasonable to expect the customer to have done this kind of detective work before buying a product.

 If you buy a selfie stick online, is it ok for it to blow up in your face if the manufacturer had announced a few years ago that the stick of dynamite will explode inside the selfie stick if you bought it from a seller that has the letters T, N and another T in their trade name?

If inflicting injury by this method isn’t ok, doing harm to personal property isn’t ok either.

25 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Plus you’ll have some access to support, and that’s not something to dismiss lightly.

A common argument, and easily refuted. Support might not mean much if you live outside of the US. Getting any support, other than redirect the spare part parcels the manufacturer ships, is pretty rare across the globe. In our country for example there are still no shops that even offer EUC repairs, and the official KS distributor sells a handful of wheels per year through his web shop. He doesn’t stock spare parts, and frankly I’m not even sure if he has ever replaced an inner tube (or done any other service) for a customer.

That kind of service definitely isn’t worth the 400-800€ price difference. I’d offer the same service for 1/10th of the price.

[Scottie888]

It astounds me to hear ppl defending the actions (& IMO illegal) of disabling privately owned physical property. There's no IP here & we did not subscribe to a service that the service provider can arbitrarily deny or disable. Even service providers must provide a disclaimer that spells out the provisions & conditions of service for the consumer's agreement before providing said service contract.

However we did not subscribe to such service. Instead we bought physical property as defined by law (ie.no different than an automobile, bicycle, scooter, et al) so please check your localities property rights.

KS has zero rights to disable it without the full consent of the property owner. Any court of law (that follows English Common Law at least) will recognize it & rule accordingly. KS gets away with this shizzle cos they are in China & untouchable by our laws.

One can argue what can & should be done but wrong is wrong & illegal is illegal. Defending the indefensible is beyond retarded. IMO ofcos