My V11 Trials, Tribulations, and Triumphs

[AtlasP]

8 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Soldered fuses are effectively no fuses, from the user point of view. At least that's the way I see it.

 

• No fuse at all = possible fire = possible damage to case/wiring/batteries/motor/etc.
• Soldered fuse = another graceful failure point to avoid fire = potential for dead board but which is relatively easy & cheap to replace compared to case/batteries/motor/etc.

While removable fuses are nice/ideal, conceptually a soldered fuse is still fundamentally better than no fuse by a wide margin.

(And even if the soldered fuse doesn't *always* work to prevent further damage and there are counter-examples, then in those cases the soldered fuse didn't 'hurt' anything--but you gain so much in the cases where it might/does.)

Edited August 17, 2020 by AtlasP

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, AtlasP said:

 

• No fuse at all = possible fire = possible damage to case/wiring/batteries/motor/etc.
• Soldered fuse = another graceful failure point to avoid fire = potential for dead board but which is relatively easy & cheap to replace compared to case/batteries/motor/etc.

While removable fuses are nice/ideal, conceptually a soldered fuse is still fundamentally better than no fuse by a wide margin.

(And even if the soldered fuse doesn't *always* work to prevent further damage and there are counter-examples, then in those cases the soldered fuse didn't 'hurt' anything--but you gain so much in the cases where it might/does.)

In theory yes. But after observing EUC's for years now, I see no evidence of a rash of EUC fires.

I'm not anti soldered-in-fuse but I don't think they offer any practical value to EUC's. If a company is going to use a fuse, make it user replaceable - that adds value to the user.

[mrelwood]

22 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I don't think the V11 has any fuses (that's a KingSong thing).

There are two 30A SMD fuses in parallel under the green insulation paper, under the large electrolytic capacitors. DEFINITELY not user replaceable, but hopefully they would spare from toasting the motor like what happened to my MSX a year ago.

[Marty Backe]

17 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

There are two 30A SMD fuses in parallel under the green insulation paper, under the large electrolytic capacitors. DEFINITELY not user replaceable, but hopefully they would spare from toasting the motor like what happened to my MSX a year ago.

I'm curious, have you taken a board apart to learn this information?

[mrelwood]

On 8/18/2020 at 7:40 AM, Marty Backe said:

I'm curious, have you taken a board apart to learn this information?

I have.

[mrelwood]

On 8/18/2020 at 7:40 AM, Marty Backe said:

I'm curious, have you taken a board apart to learn this information?

 

[Hal Farrenkopf]

On 8/18/2020 at 12:22 AM, mrelwood said:

There are two 30A SMD fuses in parallel under the green insulation paper, under the large electrolytic capacitors. DEFINITELY not user replaceable, but hopefully they would spare from toasting the motor like what happened to my MSX a year ago.

Those 30A SMD fuses are a lot easier to replace than the soldered in through the board blade fuse that the V10F uses. Don't have to remove the main board to unsolder the SMD fuses like you should do with the blade fuses. If you own a soldering iron then the SMD fuses are user replaceable.  60A fusing means that for the fuse to blow fast, much more than 60A is needed. Speed of fuse blowing depends on how much more than the rating is going through it.  It just doesn't blow at 61A for a a long time.

[mrelwood]

1 minute ago, Hal Farrenkopf said:

Those 30A SMD fuses are a lot easier to replace than the soldered in through the board blade fuse that the V10F uses.

To get to the SMD fuses, you have to first get in the darn air tight controller cavity, remove several multi-connectors, remove the top board completely, remove most of the cabling on the lower board, cut through the glue on the electrolytics, and finally tear the green insulation paper. Removing the screws to get to the underside would be no effort at all after all that. I haven't worked on the V10F, but if the fuses require even more work than these... dang!

[Hal Farrenkopf]

9 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

To get to the SMD fuses, you have to first get in the darn air tight controller cavity, remove several multi-connectors, remove the top board completely, remove most of the cabling on the lower board, cut through the glue on the electrolytics, and finally tear the green insulation paper. Removing the screws to get to the underside would be no effort at all after all that. I haven't worked on the V10F, but if the fuses require even more work than these... dang!

Everything on the V11 is more complex to dismantle.

I'm a little disappointed in the heat sinking design. The top half of the compartment is not properly connected to the lower half for heat conduction because of the caulking. If it was designed with some embedded heat pipes on the bottom and top pieces that met with some more metal to metal surface and then the top having heat sink fins with a fan on it would really keep everything cooler.

[Marty Backe]

 

[Marty Backe]

How To Remove The Motor

Intimidated by possibly having to change the tire/tube on the V11. This video is for you. And for those that want to see the Hollow Bore motor, there's a nice view of that towards the end (or just look at the thumbnail ).

 

[UniVehje]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

This video is for you

Thank you. I’m going to have to change my motor very soon. This is easy to follow. Looks like a major oversight having to disassemble the board just to fix a flat. I wonder if some connectors outside the board housing will fit under the shell? 
 

A small correction to the video. At least on the production model the aluminium slider comes out on top together with the handle. That’s an unnecessary part to unscrew. And the cut off button wire is also easy to disconnect, just pull out the rubber seal and there’s a quick release connector under it. 

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

How To Remove The Motor

Intimidated by possibly having to change the tire/tube on the V11. This video is for you. And for those that want to see the Hollow Bore motor, there's a nice view of that towards the end (or just look at the thumbnail ).

 

A little trick to make this easier. You can disconnect cut-off button, so you dont't have to undo so mant things. Check this out at the timestamp 0:43ish suggest to look at this before going ahead. (it has been posted before.) but combined this with your great video Marty, I think it isn't as daunting a job as I first thought it would be. I am not really a tinker, electronics isn't any issue. But mechanical part makes my hands into pinguin flippers. 

 

[Marty Backe]

3 minutes ago, Unventor said:

A little trick to make this easier. You can disconnect cut-off button, so you dont't have to undo so mant things. Check this out at the timestamp 0:43ish suggest to look at this before going ahead. (it has been posted before.) but combined this with your great video Marty, I think it isn't as daunting a job as I first thought it would be. I am not really a tinker, electronics isn't any issue. But mechanical part makes my hands into pinguin flippers. 

 

Yes, someone posted that in my YouTube comments. I do think I saw how to disconnect that cable but I obviously didn't remember when it came time for me to do it . I'm sure I didn't do everything "by the book" but hopefully it'll be useful for some people 

[Marty Backe]

39 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

Thank you. I’m going to have to change my motor very soon. This is easy to follow. Looks like a major oversight having to disassemble the board just to fix a flat. I wonder if some connectors outside the board housing will fit under the shell? 
 

A small correction to the video. At least on the production model the aluminium slider comes out on top together with the handle. That’s an unnecessary part to unscrew. And the cut off button wire is also easy to disconnect, just pull out the rubber seal and there’s a quick release connector under it. 

Thanks for the corrections  I suspect (as I say in the video) that there are differences with the production wheels. But hopefully my video is close enough to help some people if they stumble upon upon it 

[Unventor]

1 minute ago, Marty Backe said:

Yes, someone posted that in my YouTube comments. I do think I saw how to disconnect that cable but I obviously didn't remember when it came time for me to do it . I'm sure I didn't do everything "by the book" but hopefully it'll be useful for some people 

I don't think there is a right or wrong way really. Your inspired me. It avoids to move a water seal So it has pros and cons doing eighter way.

[UniVehje]

10 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

 I suspect (as I say in the video) that there are differences with the production wheels. But hopefully my video is close enough to help some people if they stumble upon upon it 

Sure, your instructions work perfectly and much better than the disassembly video by Inmotion that takes off way too many parts before getting to the tire. They said they are making a new video just for that. But perhaps they are ashamed of the part where you have to get the wires free. 

For anyone wondering what the unnecessary part was exactly, here’s a picture of how my handle came off after releasing the pedal hangers (no need to take the pedal rod out).

[mrelwood]

12 hours ago, UniVehje said:

 

Having tinkered with my V11, I can vouch for keeping the handle attached to the vertical sliders as the photo above shows. Putting it back on seems to be a bit picky on how and when you tighten those bolts, or the sliders may end up being in a slight angle. It might affect the tenderness of the suspension in small bumps. (Not talking about S18 level jamming of course, but just enough that the most sensitive of us may notice.)

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Having tinkered with my V11, I can vouch for keeping the handle attached to the vertical sliders as the photo above shows. Putting it back on seems to be a bit picky on how and when you tighten those bolts, or the sliders may end up being in a slight angle. It might affect the tenderness of the suspension in small bumps. (Not talking about S18 level jamming of course, but just enough that the most sensitive of us may notice.)

There seemed to be zero issues reassembling my pre-production V11. It's important to have both shocks discharged when doing so though.

Maybe there's something worse about this on the production units?

[mrelwood]

 

7 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Maybe there's something worse about this on the production units?

I don’t think so. You just did it better.