Kingsong S18 Tire Discussion

[Mac]

14 hours ago, FinRider said:

Sorry for making the crude joke.. couldn't resist.

I bought a H-666 for the S18 which I will fit during my suspension fix session, but this might be an alternative to try out as well... especially since it is fairly cheap!

Its a pirelli 43S tire

43 = 155 kg max load

S = 180 km/h max speed (I guess I need to tune the S18 a bit....)

Seriously, thanks for sharing! I found one at a local MP store for less than €40.

 

Sweet! I think you’re going to like it. Crude? Raw talent!

[Whalesmash]

Anyone happen to know where I can get my hands on a CST C803 tire state side? Been browsing around, but it feels like pretty much any tire that is the right size for this wheel is incredibly difficult to come by. 

[EldARon]

I'm trying out this tire from Mitas (14 80/80-14 REINF. 53L TL/TT). Have just ordered it. I hope to get it soon. It says on the Norwegian shop that its a good all year tire. Also winter. Looking forward to testing that. Might have to add spikes.I hope it fits without any problems. 

https://www.mitas-moto.com/en/products/scooter--tires/scooter--winter--tires/mc--32--win--scoot

Edited January 6, 2021 by EldARon

[Whalesmash]

Just got my knobby tire in. Haven't tried to fit it yet since I have to use my EUC to travel and pick up my car tomorrow from the service department 18 miles away (going to be a fun ride!) But for those curious this is a YuanXing YX-P75 Tire. There's crazy amounts of rebrands of this tire, and I actually got mine off Amazon here under the name "MMG". Annoyingly, it's out of stock now like half a dozen other tires I was going to order, so if this does end up working, I'm not going to be able to order another...

[Whalesmash]

Finished fitting and centering the tire. I'm happy to say it fits very well. In fact, there is a few milimeters of extra clearance between this tire and the fender as compared to the original 3x18 CY tire. Riding it for a few miles, I did not notice any particular difference in terms of torque or speed. It does make more noise than the original tire, and I did notice that turning now requires me to lift the wheel back into its original position rather than allowing it to rotate back up on its own. It's similar to how it works on the sherman. Perhaps it's a knobby tire thing? Other than that, I did notice a little bit more sensitivity as the tire is a half inch narrower than the original. I will have to get used to it, but for now, I'm going to go give the tire a proper trial on some trails.

 

Edit, post 20 mile trail ride:

Changing to a pretty aggressive knobby tire has really changed how the wheel behaves both on road and off road. It's definitely not as lively on the paved streets and feels a less stable at higher speed (though I can't really get much higher speed on the S-18 anyways so this won't be a problem). Where the tire really shines is on the trails, just like we would expect. Where the old tire felt like I was skimming on top of the substrate I was riding on, the knobby feels like it's actually digging into the trail and provides much more connection. It's also much more manageable on loose dirt/gravel/sand. Over all, I am pretty sold on keeping this tire on my wheel. We'll see how well it holds up as the miles pile up.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Whalesmash

[RoCan]

13 hours ago, Whalesmash said:

Finished fitting and centering the tire. I'm happy to say it fits very well. In fact, there is a few milimeters of extra clearance between this tire and the fender as compared to the original 3x18 CY tire. Riding it for a few miles, I did not notice any particular difference in terms of torque or speed. It does make more noise than the original tire, and I did notice that turning now requires me to lift the wheel back into its original position rather than allowing it to rotate back up on its own. It's similar to how it works on the sherman. Perhaps it's a knobby tire thing? Other than that, I did notice a little bit more sensitivity as the tire is a half inch narrower than the original. I will have to get used to it, but for now, I'm going to go give the tire a proper trial on some trails.

 

Edit, post 20 mile trail ride:

Changing to a pretty aggressive knobby tire has really changed how the wheel behaves both on road and off road. It's definitely not as lively on the paved streets and feels a less stable at higher speed (though I can't really get much higher speed on the S-18 anyways so this won't be a problem). Where the tire really shines is on the trails, just like we would expect. Where the old tire felt like I was skimming on top of the substrate I was riding on, the knobby feels like it's actually digging into the trail and provides much more connection. It's also much more manageable on loose dirt/gravel/sand. Over all, I am pretty sold on keeping this tire on my wheel. We'll see how well it holds up as the miles pile up.

This is exciting! A knobby without modification. Just to clarify what size is the tyre? You mention it is half inch narrower than stock. Is this in official size on tyre or actual size once inflated? Cheers 😬 

[Whalesmash]

The specified size is smaller since the original tire is a 18x3" tire and this knobby is a 2.5 x 14  tire (it's a different measurement system, the ChaoYang tire presents the outer tire dimensions while the YuanXing reports tire width and rim size). The mounted and inflated tire is something along the lines of 2.45 inches wide, but going by fender clearance, I have maybe 5mm (estimate) more clearance between the knobs and the fender. The difference is really only noticeable when turning since the tire is narrower.

[EldARon]

Hey

I got the tire I ordered yesterday. Mitas (14 80/80-14 REINF. 53L TL/TT). At first it looked to wide. I tired it on with out the motor. It was really tight. But I decided to put it on and see if adding air into it tire would help. And it did.

Now I can't get the wheel straight. There is a 5.31 mm gap on the left side (when riding). The tire is touching on the other side. How the fix this?

Edited January 15, 2021 by EldARon

[Beachboy]

@EldARon did you put back that almost paper thin tiny shim? Its right between motor axle and slider housing..

[fbhb]

On 1/16/2021 at 2:33 AM, EldARon said:

Now I can't get the wheel straight. There is a 5.31 mm gap on the left side (when riding). The tire is touching on the other side. How the fix this?

 

On 1/16/2021 at 5:28 AM, Beachboy said:

@EldARon did you put back that almost paper thin tiny shim? Its right between motor axle and slider housing..

@Beachboy is correct, you will need to put the shim or additional shims under the axle to tilt the wheel over and get back an equal amount of clearance each side!

The photo below shows where the shim needs to be added and is taken from my tutorial: S18 Full Strip Down, Suspension Overhaul, Tire Upgrade, Mods and Rebuild - My Personal Comprehensive Account, should you need any further guidance just refer back to that post!

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by fbhb

[Whalesmash]

Huh, so that's what that little thing was for. I couldn't remember where it was supposed to go so I didn't even bother reinstalling it. My tire's a bit thinner than the stock one so I didn't even notice any difference.

[dsd317]

1 hour ago, Whalesmash said:

Huh, so that's what that little thing was for. I couldn't remember where it was supposed to go so I didn't even bother reinstalling it. My tire's a bit thinner than the stock one so I didn't even notice any difference.

How do you like your tire so far?  Do you have any vids of you shredding trails and streets with that tire?

[Whalesmash]

18 minutes ago, dsd317 said:

How do you like your tire so far?  Do you have any vids of you shredding trails and streets with that tire?

I need to take it for a few more trail runs before I really give my final thoughts on this knobby tire, but as a casual answer, I find it good so far. I have yet to do any trail riding since the initial 20 I did when I first installed the tire. Since then I did have to change the inner tube since the one that came as part of the combo deal was really garbage and thin walled. That inner tube was actually letting the tire slip a little bit and was also leaking near the valve stem. There's now a michelin 60/100-14 inner tube inside it and I haven't had any problems since. I still do find the tire to be a bit dive happy and unstable under a high lean turn, but it otherwise handles just fine. I am willing to put some of the instability I'm feeling as me just not quite being accustomed to the tire yet. That said, I do only have about 50-60 miles on this tire with the majority of my riding this past week only coming from city-road commuting to and from work. I'll have more opinions on trail performance after I hit up a few of my local spots this weekend. Unfortunately I don't own any recording gear at this time so I can't really provide any videos

[Wxman25]

On 9/7/2020 at 10:17 AM, Elliott Reitz said:

2.50-14 knobby (including CST-803):  Yes I believe it will fit the S18 since I used one easily with my MSX.  It will be great off road.  On road it will be interesting how much of the road-vibration you feel with the suspension on the S18.

The K262:  That didn't take any knob shaving but I did have to cut the inner fender due to its larger circumference (20").

Shinko SR244 and SR241:  I doubt these will fit without knob shaving and even then you may be challenged to keep clearance for the wiring if you can even get it to spin.  The knob-shaved SR241 on my MSX is 3.3/8 width while the cavity is just under 3.5". The cavity width on the S18 is also 3.5" but the wheel isn't exactly centered in the cavity either.  Maybe the spacers could be changed out to better center the wheel... too much trouble compared to the K262 option.  The SR244 and SR241 also have larger circumference (20") than the stock wheel (inner fender won't fit without cutting out 75% of it).

CST-186:  I haven't seen these available in the USA.  They might be closer to the K262 width since I recall someone putting one on an MSX.  Others have also put the K262 on MSX/MSP without need of knob shaving.

 

 

I can give some feedback on the Shinko SR241. It doesn't fit! Unless you are willing to cut out the fender and shave the knobs down quite a bit. I have since ordered a 2.5 90%-10% offroad-street tire. 

KENDA Washougal II K775 Front Tire (60/100-14 (Sticky))

Its at on the way and should be here by Tuesday 19 January. I'll do an install and road test in the future. 

[Elliott Reitz]

1 hour ago, Wxman25 said:

I can give some feedback on the Shinko SR241. It doesn't fit! Unless you are willing to cut out the fender and shave the knobs down quite a bit. I have since ordered a 2.5 90%-10% offroad-street tire. 

KENDA Washougal II K775 Front Tire (60/100-14 (Sticky))

Its at on the way and should be here by Tuesday 19 January. I'll do an install and road test in the future. 

Yea the SR241 is yet biggger than the KS K262.  I'll be interested to see how easy it goes to fit the K775.  I will say that after cutting off the top and riight side of the inner fender, its still working great on my S18 with the K262.  This was my ride today!

 

[EldARon]

On 1/15/2021 at 5:28 PM, Beachboy said:

@EldARon did you put back that almost paper thin tiny shim? Its right between motor axle and slider housing..

 

On 1/15/2021 at 8:22 PM, fbhb said:

 

@Beachboy is correct, you will need to put the shim or additional shims under the axle to tilt the wheel over and get back an equal amount of clearance each side!

The photo below shows where the shim needs to be added and is taken from my tutorial: S18 Full Strip Down, Suspension Overhaul, Tire Upgrade, Mods and Rebuild - My Personal Comprehensive Account, should you need any further guidance just refer back to that post!

Thanks guys. Yes, I did but it seemed to get worse. I tried the other sider. That didn't seem to help. I'll check that the tire is straight on the motor and try again. But it seem to have the same degree of contact when I move the wheel one full round.

[Wxman25]

On 9/7/2020 at 10:17 AM, Elliott Reitz said:

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Wxman25
Wrong quote

[Wxman25]

KENDA Washougal II K775 Front Tire (60/100-14 was installed last night. Initial thoughts this tire is smaller than the stock tire both in height and width. It should mean better acceleration, but maybe a lower top speed. 

Also due to the smaller size getting it mounted on the wheel took a little work. I was not able to find a an inner tube with a angled valve stem. So I used an angled valve stem adapter. 

It has zero rubbing and appears to be centered in the EUC. I'll upload pics later. 

[EUCRexy]

On 1/20/2021 at 8:35 AM, Wxman25 said:

It has zero rubbing and appears to be centered in the EUC. I'll upload pics later.

That's awesome. I work for a motorcycle dealership and we have a Pirelli Scorpion MX32 in stock in that size., and while I haven't bought my S18 yet, I intend on adding it to the wheel. Did you use regular tire spoons to mount it?

[Wxman25]

1 hour ago, EUCRexy said:

That's awesome. I work for a motorcycle dealership and we have a Pirelli Scorpion MX32 in stock in that size., and while I haven't bought my S18 yet, I intend on adding it to the wheel. Did you use regular tire spoons to mount it?

Yes I used regular spoons. It was like mounting a low profile tire, bit it worked. 

[EUCRexy]

Gotcha, total pain then, lol. Looking forward to it when I get my wheel. I hadn't even thought of the tube though. Gonna have to look for some angled ones. Here's hoping I have them in stock or at least my distributors do.

[Whalesmash]

Here's my thoughts on the YX tire after ~100 miles (60/40 Trail/Street) with it:

• Amazing for the trails: Grip is improved leaps and bounds which allows for much more confidence in maintaining speed across varied terrain. For the trails that I frequent, sections that I previously had to be cautious on, I could simply rip through and have the confidence that the tire wouldn't step out on me. This also means I get to take more advantage of the suspension smoothing things out as the combination of speed and MTB shock really let the S-18's colors shine. It's amazing how much the tire change has altered the trail riding behavior. I really think KS should offer a version of the S18 with a knobby tire straight from the factory.
• Vibrations: Surprisingly absent. I don't feel any vibrations coming from the tire. I expect that would change if the knob spacing was a bit more aggressive like the K775 posted above. Personally I don't find myself desiring a more aggressive tread pattern so I am happy with the YX tire I have. 
• Noise: It's a lot louder than the street tire, and actually a little bit louder than the sherman knobby tire (assuming they are travelling at the same speed). 
• Twitchiness/Sensitivity: I notice this a lot less now that I'm much more accustomed to the tire, but it is definitely more sensitive than the original tire. I wouldn't consider this a pro or a con, just something that comes naturally with a swap to a narrower tire.
• High lean instability: It's still there, and I've come to the conclusion that this characteristic has to do with the knob pattern that the tire has. Beyond a certain point, there's just no more knobs. This isn't like the street tire which has a nice rounded profile throughout the curvature of the tire, the knobs only go out to a certain distance, and then there's no more knobs. As I get increasingly accustomed to the tire, I also notice this less and less, but it is important to always remember that I can only lean the wheel a certain amount. More time and muscle memory will probably resolve this eventually.
• Fun on the road still, but not as fun as the street tire: Kind of expected, but there is certainly a small concession made in terms of street performance when switching to the knobby. It's still fun to carve and behaves fine for commuting, but the street tire is obviously going to be better for pure street performance. Personally I think the sacrifice is worth it, but I use my S18 almost exclusively for trails and only occasionally for a few miles commute to work. 
• Mileage is worse: Slight smaller outer diameter, slightly heavier tire, and it's a knobby. I don't have an exact number for the range decrease, but I'd estimate maybe 5-10% decreased range. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Whalesmash

[Wxman25]

1 minute ago, Whalesmash said:

Here's my thoughts on the YX tire after ~100 miles (60/40 Trail/Street) with it:

• Amazing for the trails: Grip is improved leaps and bounds which allows for much more confidence in maintaining speed across varied terrain. For the trails that I frequent, sections that I previously had to be cautious on, I could simply rip through and have the confidence that the tire wouldn't step out on me. This also means I get to take more advantage of the suspension smoothing things out as the combination of speed and MTB shock really let the S-18's colors shine. It's amazing how much the tire change has altered the trail riding behavior. I really think KS should offer a version of the S18 with a knobby tire straight from the factory.
• Vibrations: Surprisingly absent. I don't feel any vibrations coming from the tire. I expect that would change if the knob spacing was a bit more aggressive like the K775 posted above. Personally I don't find myself desiring a more aggressive tread pattern so I am happy with the YX tire I have. 
• Noise: It's a lot louder than the street tire, and actually a little bit louder than the sherman knobby tire (assuming they are travelling at the same speed). 
• Twitchiness/Sensitivity: I notice this a lot less now that I'm much more accustomed to the tire, but it is definitely more sensitive than the original tire. I wouldn't consider this a pro or a con, just something that comes naturally with a swap to a narrower tire.
• High lean instability: It's still there, and I've come to the conclusion that this characteristic has to do with the knob pattern that the tire has. Beyond a certain point, there's just no more knobs. This isn't like the street tire which has a nice rounded profile throughout the curvature of the tire, the knobs only go out to a certain distance, and then there's no more knobs. As I get increasingly accustomed to the tire, I also notice this less and less, but it is important to always remember that I can only lean the wheel a certain amount. More time and muscle memory will probably resolve this eventually.
• Fun on the road still, but not as fun as the street tire: Kind of expected, but there is certainly a small concession made in terms of street performance when switching to the knobby. It's still fun to carve and behaves fine for commuting, but the street tire is obviously going to be better for pure street performance. Personally I think the sacrifice is worth it, but I use my S18 almost exclusively for trails and only occasionally for a few miles commute to work. 

What are you running the PSI at? I installed a 60/100 a few days ago and it was really unstable. Then i realized it had too much air in it About 30PSI. I lowered it but my wife said it looked flat when i was riding it. So i bit the bullet and put the stocker back on. I need a better inner tube anyway if I'm ever going to put the knobby back on as it had a straight valve stem. 

[Whalesmash]

13 minutes ago, Wxman25 said:

What are you running the PSI at? I installed a 60/100 a few days ago and it was really unstable. Then i realized it had too much air in it About 30PSI. I lowered it but my wife said it looked flat when i was riding it. So i bit the bullet and put the stocker back on. I need a better inner tube anyway if I'm ever going to put the knobby back on as it had a straight valve stem. 

I'm running between 30-35 psi. Probably closer to 30. I do distinctly recall that when I first did the swap I was not very happy with the instability, but giving the tire some time has dulled it out. I'm running a straight stemmed Michelin 60/100-14 inner tube as well. It's pretty tricky to fill, but I am able to do it with one of those low profile tire inflators that are for cars. I am using this with a compressor rather than a hand pump though, so inflating is a lot easier for me. Here's a link to what the head looks like (though mine might not be the exact same one): https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milton-Industries-Inc-1-4-in-Single-Head-Air-Chuck-S-699/304592519?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US

[itsmark]

What's the likelihood of this fitting?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Heidenau-K42-Reinforced-80-80-14-43J-TL-Motorcycle-Tyre/303728502396?epid=1722819506&hash=item46b7a1267c:g:ZuYAAOSwOTZfiPoT

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by mrelwood
Press enter after pasteing the link to make it clickable. :o)