16X beeping while charging

[travsformation]

On 7/8/2020 at 4:31 PM, Seba said:

Li-Ion is a common name for batteries that may use different chemistries. Battery shown on this movie is using the most unsafe LCO chemistry and doesn't have any BMS circuitry. Even small mechanical stress may cause so-called LiPo battery to catch in fire. At the same time battery of your KS-16X is protected by BMS and is using NMC chemistry that is way more safe than inherently dangerous LCO.

Just take a look at the datasheet and read more about cells used in KS-16X and their safety testing protocol - https://www.tme.eu/Document/f9d93f9cb60fa6eb0a4caf9df5c96711/ACCU-INR18650-35E.pdf - they can be overcharged with 12 V (while 4.2 V is normally max) and 10 A (while 2 A is normally max) for 7 hours. If will of course pop out and vent, but no fire or explosion may occur (see 9.1).

I don't think you have to worry about anything. KS-16X battery pack is using 20S6P configuration what means that 6 A of charging current will result in more or less 1 A of charging current per cell. This is way less than standard charging current set by Samsung (cell manufacturer) at 1.7 A.

Wow, a massive THANKS for the taking the time to write such a thorough explanation! These batteries are much safer than I thought! I've saved the pdf in my "EUC knowledge database" folder in G. drive. 

I guess I got paranoid when GWs started burning up... 😅  

Speaking of which, getting an MSP is currently on the table. Can I be equally confident about battery safety on that wheel?

On 7/8/2020 at 4:31 PM, Seba said:

Some discrepancies between current readout on charger meter and app are also completely normal. Both metering circuits are not very precise, but this doesn't pose any safety risks. Also you don't have to worry about battery heating. Trust me - 1 A per cell is a way less that current flowing during normal riding and even then it doesn't cause any risk. Actually, KS-16X batteries are rated for continuous discharge current of 48 A (6 x 8 A per cell). Fourty eight times more! And there is no difference if current is flowing out or into the battery - temperature rise is relative to currrent value, regardless of flow direction. It's just a result of internal resistance and current. Trust me, power losses in battery cells are negligible. 6 A is nothing for the battery. Wiring, BMS and motherboard components are also safe at this current level.

While current is flowing thru some circuit on the mainboard, this current will cause components of this circuit to heat. This raises board temperature, causing fan to start above some threshold (IIRC fan starts as low as 45 degrees). Again, nothing to worry about  

The only thing you should check after some time from charging start is a temperature of Lenovo charging plug. In general, it's rated for about 4 A each. This however doesn't mean that any current above this value will cause this connector to fail immediately. There is quite big safety margin, so while it's not getting too hot, one hour of charging with 6 A should not make any harm. But it's wise to check it with your hand if it's not going too hot. It may be warm, but not hot.

Thanks again! Noted in my Evernote "battery safety" note (this is GREAT info, and if I don't write it down I'll definitely forget it...) 

About the charger, Chris from 1rad wrote to me that all 5A chargers with Lenovo connectors are set to charge at 5.02 to 5.05A, precisely to prevent the wheel from beeping (not for safety reasons; he explained, as you did, that there's absolutely nothing to worry about in that regard). He said that the fact mine was charging at 5.19 wasn't normal, but not worrying, but that he's not comfortable with the fact it's jumped up from 5.19 to 5.65A after 6 months of use, that the charger needs to be verified to make sure nothing is malfunctioning. 

Thanks for the tip on the Lenovo plug, I'll make sure to remember to check it from time to time when charging above 4A. 

I've been very uncomfortable having two 3100Wh in lithium batteries in the guest room ever since the GW Monster fires. For those of us with little knowledge on lithium battery tech and the why's and how's of such unfortunate scenarios, such things are very unsettling (knowledge is power / peace of mind). And when the wheel starting beeping and the charger started going above it's rated current...

You've really put my mind at ease, thanks!

Edited July 11, 2020 by travsformation

[travsformation]

1 hour ago, HarpMudd said:

I'm still on firmware v1.05 and don't experience any beeping charging at 5A. This was one of the reasons I never upgraded the firmware. While on long rides, I wanted to be able to go into a public place, fast-charge and not draw attention from everyone in the place!

Speaking of that...I'd also like to be able to connect the app to my wheel at home without waking up my girlfriend, or on the street without everyone who's walking by turning around to see what the hell is beeping...The other day I went out to lunch, left my wheel by my table and went to wash my hands. When I returned to my table, EUC World connected again, and all those loud beeps in a quiet restaurant...it was embarrassing, honestly. I forgot to disconnect the wheel (because my steak had arrived...) and it happened again later when I went to the toilet. The whole restaurant was glaring at me...

When I left, I was about to connect the wheel when I realized the terrace was full of people having coffee/drinks, and didn't fancy drawing attention to myself again. So I rode around the corner to the back of the restaurant to connect the wheel to EUC World. I really shouldn't have to do that...

Is there any chance we'll be able to disable the KS beeps any time in the future, @Jack King Song?

This is extremely annoying, and I don't think there's a single KS user out there who likes the beeps. We've been asking for this forever. (We got a "Bluetooth is connected" patch, and that isn't nearly as annoying as the beeps...). Couldn't an option be implemented to enable/disable beeps from the app? 

My phone has an option to enable/disable touch sounds. My cameras (GoPro, Sony, Nikon, etc.) have an option to disable confirmation beeps. My 15-year-old, 150€ Canon point-and-shoot has that option...Why, in 2020, can't we disable these annoying beeps (that no one wants in the first place) on wheels we're paying €2.000 for? PLEASE... 🙏🙏🙏

Please pass on this request to KS management and lobby for us. If you manage to get this implemented, the entire KS user-base of all of planet Earth will be forever grateful to you! 

I'll have a gold-plated commemorative plaque put up! No, what am I saying...? !I'll start a crowdfunding campaign and build you a statue in the city of your choice! I'll nominate you for the Nobel Peace Prize! Whatever you want!!! NAME YOUR PRIIIIICE !!!!! 

Edited July 11, 2020 by travsformation

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

1 hour ago, travsformation said:

Yeah, it looks like FW 1.05 is the only one that doesn't beep...

My 16X doesn't beep too, independent of firmware 

[Ddolik]

I'm using FW 1.05 because so far i had zero cut offs, i was able to go up to everyhill so far without any issues, i was able to ride in speed which was okay for me without any beeping, even if I had less than 50% or 30%. So I decided to not upgrade.

 

I just bought the 1rad fast charger (80, 90, 100% and 1-5A) and no beeping, all good... Only issue I had was in the EUC World I had something like:

 

1. first charging was from 50% to 100% (84,5V) while set to 80% 1A - no stopping even when set to 80%.

2. second charging was from 30% to 87% (81,2V app and 80,9 V charger) while set to 80% 2A. This time it stopped charging on its own. - again it was set to max 80%.

 

 

[Ddolik]

So I used fast charger and normal charger, and FW 1.05 is with beeping too... sad day

[DragonFZ]

I have a 55 mile group ride coming up. I've never ran my KS16X to its limits. Does anyone know what a 5A charging for one hour would get me? 20%?

[Chriull]

13 minutes ago, DragonFZ said:

I have a 55 mile group ride coming up. I've never ran my KS16X to its limits. Does anyone know what a 5A charging for one hour would get me? 20%?

The 16x is 1554Wh? 20s6p with 18650 3500mAh?

So this would make a 6*3.5Ah=21Ah pack. So 5A for 1h gives 5Ah of the 21Ah - about 24%.

.... very roughly ...

As reported charge % do just roughly correspond to state of charge, specified charge currents tend to be quite inacurate, ....

But a rough number to start with!

[DragonFZ]

Thank you very much for the information and formula

 

[EUCRookie]

On 7/6/2020 at 12:09 AM, Michael Tucker said:

I use the stock charger on FW2.02 and my wheel beeps all the time when charging, mostly when full or near full. But also hours after charging too.

Does it still beep when charging now just over a year later?

[Michael Tucker]

On 10/6/2021 at 12:17 AM, AeonDrone said:

Does it still beep when charging now just over a year later?

No. The reason it beeped when charging was because of a few things. I ride with a dedicated smart phone on my wrist running EUC world. I charge this phone and my 16X next to each other. When the 16X charges it turns on. If I leave EUC World running on my phone when I charge it the 16X connects to my phone and beeps like 7 times. The bluetooth on this phone is weak. If I turn on my microwave the connection is lost and upon re-connecting it beeps 7 times again. Then, if I leave the 16X plugged in, after its done charging it beeps 4 or 5 times warning its about to automatic shut-off.