My Sherman Trials, Tribulations, and Triumphs

[MrRobot]

2 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

DC rider hit 52 mph GPS verified on her Sherman today. 

NICE

 

Ben since you're also a city rider who probably does near 0 trail riding what are your thoughts on street or off road tire? The only thing I can think of the off road tire being useful for us is maybe the snow... Pretty sure I'm going to get a street tire. I love carving too much! 

[Ben Kim]

1 hour ago, MrRobot said:

NICE

 

Ben since you're also a city rider who probably does near 0 trail riding what are your thoughts on street or off road tire? The only thing I can think of the off road tire being useful for us is maybe the snow... Pretty sure I'm going to get a street tire. I love carving too much! 

Off road tire has taller sidewall than the Kenda, given the corner bottom guardrail is a weak point, you want as much sidewall as possible. There’s a reason they went with that tire, and i suspect clearance issues is why. 

[MrRobot]

22 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

Off road tire has taller sidewall than the Kenda, given the corner bottom guardrail is a weak point, you want as much sidewall as possible. There’s a reason they went with that tire, and i suspect clearance issues is why. 

Ahhh I was hoping you wouldn't say that lol 😂 but I guess it probably makes sense... Ugh now idk what to go with.

 

How is carving on the knobby tire? I've heard it takes significantly more effort to get it to move from the direction its going like it wants to keep going that way. 

[mrelwood]

It takes a deeper tilt to turn, and until you get familiar with the new behavior it requires some effort to bring the wheel back to vertical after a turn.

But if you commonly rider on bad roads or even think about off-roading even a bit, I wouldn’t consider the Sherman with a street tire. While different, the trials knobby is a good tire to ride. And the gains are just much larger than the cons in my books.

 Disclaimer: I haven’t ridden the Sherman, but I rode through the last (almost snowfree) winter with that tire. The authority and worryfree riding is mesmerizing.

Edited July 11, 2020 by mrelwood

[MrRobot]

6 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

It takes a deeper tilt to turn, and until you get familiar with the new behavior it requires some effort to bring the wheel back to vertical after a turn.

But if you commonly rider on bad roads or even think about off-roading even a bit, I wouldn’t consider the Sherman with a street tire. While different, the trials knobby is a good tire to ride. And the gains are just much larger than the cons in my books.

 Disclaimer: I haven’t ridden the Sherman, but I rode through the last (almost snowfree) winter with that tire. The authority and worryfree riding is mesmerizing.

I do 0 off roading. Next to no dirt trails here and the ones that do exist are incredibly boring as all of Illinois is totally flat. 

 

Buuuut Chicago roads are fucking TERRIBLE. So maybe i am better off with the off road tire after all... 

[null]

I hope we can find some thicker street tyres if we need that for ground clearance, it would be utterly retarded to be stuck with knobby 🙄

[eve]

8 hours ago, Dancer said:

The K262 Sherman tire is developed for moto trials. They always ride at low pressure.

 

When i first heard of EUC. I was like. "Wait, can we do trial on this?" Cuz i remember  Unicycle Trial and that was the first thing that came to my mind when i though of unicycles.

Well im still gonna buy the Sherman even if i cant do trail on it.  The pedal clearence is giving me worry though.

Edited July 11, 2020 by eve

[travsformation]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

It takes a deeper tilt to turn, and until you get familiar with the new behavior it requires some effort to bring the wheel back to vertical after a turn.

From everything I'm hearing and reading, that's not the case with the Sherman; maybe it's the weight, or the knobs are larger and softer, but everyone is saying it doesn't feel like a knobby tire on the asphalt (including Kuji, who stated that the knobby tire on the MSP was terrible on asphalt) 

[Patton250]

20 minutes ago, travsformation said:

From everything I'm hearing and reading, that's not the case with the Sherman; maybe it's the weight, or the knobs are larger and softer, but everyone is saying it doesn't feel like a knobby tire on the asphalt (including Kuji, who stated that the knobby tire on the MSP was terrible on asphalt) 

All the reviews I have watched and most importantly from the veteran reviewers all say this is the greatest wheel ever made. I will wait and see for myself if that’s the way I feel about it but I trust these men and their opinions.

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, travsformation said:

From everything I'm hearing and reading, that's not the case with the Sherman; maybe it's the weight, or the knobs are larger and softer, but everyone is saying it doesn't feel like a knobby tire on the asphalt (including Kuji, who stated that the knobby tire on the MSP was terrible on asphalt) 

A true spaced knobby tire is quite different, absolutely. The trials tire doesn’t feel like a knobby, but it has some traits that are similar, though not nearly as emphasized. It definitely carves different than any street tire we’ve accustomed to on EUCs so far.

[Marty Backe]

 

[Marty Backe]

8 hours ago, Ben Kim said:

Off road tire has taller sidewall than the Kenda, given the corner bottom guardrail is a weak point, you want as much sidewall as possible. There’s a reason they went with that tire, and i suspect clearance issues is why. 

The off-road tire is a Kenda

[Marty Backe]

8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

It takes a deeper tilt to turn, and until you get familiar with the new behavior it requires some effort to bring the wheel back to vertical after a turn.

But if you commonly rider on bad roads or even think about off-roading even a bit, I wouldn’t consider the Sherman with a street tire. While different, the trials knobby is a good tire to ride. And the gains are just much larger than the cons in my books.

 Disclaimer: I haven’t ridden the Sherman, but I rode through the last (almost snowfree) winter with that tire. The authority and worryfree riding is mesmerizing.

Did it last long? There's a semi-local rider who says it only lasted them 500-miles (800-km). That seems like an abnormally short amount of time.

I have over 500-miles on the Sherman and my tire still looks great.

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

A true spaced knobby tire is quite different, absolutely. The trials tire doesn’t feel like a knobby, but it has some traits that are similar, though not nearly as emphasized. It definitely carves different than any street tire we’ve accustomed to on EUCs so far.

Yeah. I put a knobby on my ACM and the distance between the individual treads was huge. On the Sherman they are tightly spaced.

[Fuerte]

Marty,

As usual, you have done a great job reviewing the Veteran! I know I speak for most of us in saying thank you very much for all the information you provide. All your videos allow us to make informed decisions before spending our hard earned cash. You are appreciated Marty!

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Did it last long? There's a semi-local rider who says it only lasted them 500-miles (800-km). That seems like an abnormally short amount of time.

I have over 500-miles on the Sherman and my tire still looks great.

I must’ve clocked something like 1000-2000 miles on mine, and it only started to look a bit driven in. I’d imagine it would take two more winters pretty easily. I have no idea how someone could wear it out in 500 miles. Unless he means that it didn’t last longer on the wheel because he wanted to change to a different kind...

[.....]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I have over 500-miles on the Sherman and my tire still looks great.

Is this the sherman that came from NYC? Are the miles ALL miles on the wheel, or 500 you put on + theirs? Or did you snag one of your own already? Im mostly street intent for the sherman, but I do know that a 'trials' tread is not really a knobby. I keep thinking that the street tire may just be for that VERY rare person that absolutely needs a drag strip tire? How far into the 'chicken strips' does it seem the sherman has been? Love the vids marty, thanks for the efforts!

Edited July 12, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Nekko 2]

10 hours ago, mrelwood said:

It takes a deeper tilt to turn, and until you get familiar with the new behavior it requires some effort to bring the wheel back to vertical after a turn.

But if you commonly rider on bad roads or even think about off-roading even a bit, I wouldn’t consider the Sherman with a street tire. While different, the trials knobby is a good tire to ride. And the gains are just much larger than the cons in my books.

 Disclaimer: I haven’t ridden the Sherman, but I rode through the last (almost snowfree) winter with that tire. The authority and worryfree riding is mesmerizing.

Let me thank you here for your excellent review of the Knobby  CST C-186 Tire which I have purchased thanks to your advice and which I still have to mount on my MSX.

[Ben Kim]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The off-road tire is a Kenda

i’m referring to the Kenda that Kuji was testing 

[travsformation]

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

 

Great info! So with 2X Veteran chargers we can expect a full charge in less than 5h, nice! Thanks for documenting every step and aspect of your experience with the Sherman for us! 👍

Looks like they've borrowed quite a few things from other brands. Aside from the obvious GW ones, the input current going through the control board (KS), the blue water-proof (presumably) glue on the motor cover (KS), a BMS that operates more like IM's...best of all worlds! (Source [Ecodrift])

They haven't taken the KS/IM approach to FW upgrades though, have they?

You're right that they'd do well to sort out the gyroscope switching on when unplugging the wheel. It makes sense if you're charging it leaning against the wall, but not when on a stand 🙈

BTW, I just noticed that those roll bars come with an additional benefit: they protect the power connectors. Before I got my stands, I'd lay my wheels on their side to charge them, so if for whatever reason they happened to tip over while charging, there was no risk of the connector taking a hit, getting bent and potentially causing a short-circuit or something of the likes. It looks like that won't be an issue with the Sherman 👏👏👏 

The best approach when charging without a stand would probably be to pass them through the side of the wheel instead of around the back, so if the wheel were to fall over backward, the metal tubing wouldn't land on them/pinch them 

 

[Chriull]

48 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Great info! So with 2X Veteran chargers we can expect a full charge in less than 5h, nice!

Unfortionately not.

Increasing the charging current decreases the time of the constant current stage up to ~100% first time shown. At this point roughly around 85% real charge is reached - the higher the charging current, the lower the real charge.

So the second stage (constant voltage, balancing) takes longer to charge up to real 100%.

Btw: one could "optimize" this second stage if one just leave the charger with the higher voltage plugged in after ~half an hour. As all chargers have slight differences and the "lower voltage" charger limits the other one!

The numbers @Marty Backe wrote down fit quite nicely - 10p*3500mAh = 35Ah, charge (cc phase) with 8A within 4h (99.4V reached) equals about 35Ah/8A = 4.3h.

With 8A its a nice "slow" 8A/35Ah=0.2C charge.

A bit more than 2h for the second (cv) stage is also about what batteryuniversity.com states for this stage (at 1C charge about 2 3/4h)

So with all that together the cc stage with 10A instead of 8A  will reduce @Marty Backe's measured 4h downto 4h *8A/10A = 3.2h. The second stage will take some time longer as the with 8A measured 2h - so maybe something like a quater to half an hour saved?

The fan turning off seems to be a great indicator for charging finished (if really controlled by charge current?).

Letting the fan running while charging is imho a great idea, too! Takes some stress from the cells and is ?maybe a slight? safety measure.

[travsformation]

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

Unfortionately not.

Increasing the charging current decreases the time of the constant current stage up to ~100% first time shown. At this point roughly around 85% real charge is reached - the higher the charging current, the lower the real charge.

So with all that together the cc stage with 10A instead of 8A  will reduce @Marty Backe's measured 4h downto 4h *8A/10A = 3.2h. The second stage will take some time longer as the with 8A measured 2h - so maybe something like a quater to half an hour saved?

The fan turning off seems to be a great indicator for charging finished (if really controlled by charge current?).

Letting the fan running while charging is imho a great idea, too! Takes some stress from the cells and is ?maybe a slight? safety measure.

Right, yeah. I wasn't taking the second stage into account, thanks 😅

BTW, does anyone know, based on the wiring, if those 10A have to be split between 2 ports, or can a single port take 10A?

[Chriull]

5 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Right, yeah. I wasn't taking the second stage into account, thanks 😅

BTW, does anyone know, based on the wiring, if those 10A have to be split between 2 ports, or can a single port take 10A?

Afai read it's recommended to use both ports (each limited to ~5A) for 10A. If you have a 100.8V 10A charger (1kW!) you should use a split cable to plug in both ports and the charger.

[MrRobot]

7 hours ago, Chriull said:

Afai read it's recommended to use both ports (each limited to ~5A) for 10A. If you have a 100.8V 10A charger (1kW!) you should use a split cable to plug in both ports and the charger.

Does such a charger exist? Would be nice to not have to carry two 5amps

[Chriull]

20 minutes ago, MrRobot said:

Does such a charger exist? Would be nice to not have to carry two 5amps

Google for "24s 10a li ion charger" - you'll find some results.