My Sherman Trials, Tribulations, and Triumphs

[null]

I doubt Kuji have time or interest in doing one on one reviews, or he’d be hanging around here more. He’ll probably share an opinion at some point once the replacement tyre don’t come off.

Edited July 18, 2020 by null

[MrRobot]

I just want to know which tire to get 😭

 

Are there any other reviewers that have experience with both? 

[HippoPig]

7 hours ago, MrRobot said:

I just want to know which tire to get 😭

 

Are there any other reviewers that have experience with both? 

No - but I have experience of a knobbly on the MSX and hated it.

 

I won’t be replacing the original tyre on my Sherman.

[MrRobot]

22 minutes ago, HippoPig said:

No - but I have experience of a knobbly on the MSX and hated it.

 

I won’t be replacing the original tyre on my Sherman.

I'm confused. You hated the knobby tire on an msx but you're going to keep it on the Sherman? Why? 

[Afeez Kay]

8 hours ago, MrRobot said:

I just want to know which tire to get 😭

 

Are there any other reviewers that have experience with both? 

Get the knobby tire. 

[FullTilt]

The Sherman with all it's heft and torque was designed with that tire in mind. I wonder if the weight and power would cause regular street tires to slip more easily. I also wonder if the reduced clearance depending on street tire might at all be an issue here or more so with pedal scraping:

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by FullTilt

[HippoPig]

2 hours ago, MrRobot said:

I'm confused. You hated the knobby tire on an msx but you're going to keep it on the Sherman? Why? 

It’s a 50/50 road/off road tyre.

 

It really really doesn’t behave like other knobbly tyres I have tried.

 

It just handles great and eats potholes that would have jumped me on my MSX.

[Nick McCutcheon]

3 hours ago, Afeez Kay said:

Get the knobby tire. 

Do you know which street tire the other demo was using? Curious as to what they'll be shipping, since no specific tire has been confirmed afaik.

[Shield]

If you watch till the end it appears Afeez has the updated motor wiring Marty mentioned.

 

[U-Stride]

On 7/5/2020 at 8:24 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

I love how they even copied the name from Gotway

Gotway: Dongguan kebye Intelligent Technology Co.LTD

Veteran: Guangzhou Veteran Intelligent Technology Co., Ltd.

-

Looking forward to all your tests with this wheel. Enjoy the ride!

That's funny actually. lol. What if Sherman ends up being a PSYOP from Gotway, similar to how Apple had different teams in the same company working on competing products, with Gotway taking it one step further. Be separate. 

[ExplodeMilk]

On 7/7/2020 at 12:28 AM, Alexutlang said:

I just ordered mine and their company name is Hongkong LeaperKim Technology Co., Ltd

That means LeaperKim was registered in Hong Kong. There is a reason for that.

Guangzhou Veteran is a manufacturer registered in China. If they ship the wheel directly out of China to the US, the 20% tax imposed since the trade war would be applicable, you will need to pay 20% more. On the other hand, LeaperKim is a Hong Kong based distributor company. Even if Veteran and LeaperKim are owned by the same person, they are not treated the same by the US. You see, there is  this United States-Hong Kong Policy Act, which stated that HK is considered different from China, and the 20% tax is not applicable. So what Veteran was trying to do is actually this:

Veteran (Manufacturer)  ----> LeaperKim (distributor) (China export to HK)
LeaperKim (distributor) ----> eWheels US (retailer) (HK export to US)
eWheels US (retailer)     -----> You

You may have noticed that Sherman is branded "LeaperKim", not "Veteran". It may have been done to avoid trouble with US custom. It is probably written on paper that the wheel is made/provided by "LeaperKim". If the wheel is branded "Veteran", it may raise some eyebrows.

Ofc these exploitation of legal loophole is over now, with the termination of HK's special status. That will be a topic for another forum. Hope I didn't go off topic!

[Chriull]

On 7/13/2020 at 10:02 PM, Marty Backe said:

Overheat Hill Stress Test Results

Just a "minor issue" - here a photo from your video:

As the capacitor legs are not isolated (as they are neither at other wheels?!) and battery wiring quite near, there should be a possibility that if one of these (hot) wires touch and shortcuts the capacitor legs?! This would mean the battery supply is shortcircuited... This should engage the main fuse, but maybe if the "thin" capacitor legs evaporate fast enough the fuse could survive?

No idea if this could be a possible primary reason for the incident, but putting heat resistant sleeves on the legs could not hurt! (for all wheel manufacturers...)

 

[Marty Backe]

Motor Repair (or not)

Today (Sunday) I received my Sherman repair kit. Lots of parts, etc. but the main item is the control board. I was sent two, and told to use the one on the left first. Why? I'd love to know. I've asked, but haven't heard yet. As the test dummy I'd at least like to know what feature I'm testing that's different from the other board. Otherwise, I see no difference between these and the original board.

In prep for installing the new board I started inspecting the motor cabling more closely

In the following picture you can clearly see how much melting occurred. This was repeated in three places

So then I peeled back the cabling as they are exiting from the axle. Here you can see the blue and green wires are fused together

The cables are not shorted but obviously I have no idea how much margin exists here and further into the axle. I'm not willing to risk riding with this motor as is.

So I opened the motor as seen in this next picture.

I thought perhaps I could remove the three motor wires, add the provided wire sheathing, and re-route the wires through the axle. After looking at this I've decided that's a task best done while the motor is being assembled.

They insulated the wires inside the motor but not as they pass through the axle. Obviously a weak spot if the motor is going to be stressed.

So now I wait again to see if a new motor will be sent to me.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Marty Backe

[meepmeepmayer]

5 hours ago, Jediah Matthew said:

That's funny actually. lol. What if Sherman ends up being a PSYOP from Gotway, similar to how Apple had different teams in the same company working on competing products, with Gotway taking it one step further. Be separate.

Then King Song would be a Gotway psyop, too. Because engineers being unhappy with Gotway management's decisions and running off to start their own company is how both KS and Veteran supposedly started.

But who knows, maybe they are, and we are all being had (and fleeced)

[Chriull]

28 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

In the following picture you can clearly see how much melting occurred. This was repeated in three places

 

Could it be that these are aluminium wires?! Or is there any other reason why the inside looks silverish? (continously tinned?)

Aluminium would be bad in regard to conductivity and flexibility...

Edit: This also seems to be a stranded wire?! In the awg max current tables solid wires are stated with the highest current limits vs. stranded wires! (The more strands, the lower the limit...)

28 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm not willing to risk riding with this motor as is.

+1! ... very understandable...

28 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Otherwise, I see no difference between these and the original board.

Different Firmware versions?

Edited July 20, 2020 by Chriull

[null]

We really need "hub is the axle" (whatever they are called) motors like the V11 / MP / EX are having now. The axle have traditionally been a weak spot, now on top it's getting too narrow to get enough power through safely.. The cables could have been thicker if it wasn't for that point.

edit: BTW this motor isn't rusty like the one Ecodrift got, in spite of riding through a waterfall.

Edited July 20, 2020 by null

[Alj]

43 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

 

 

So then I peeled back the cabling as they are exiting from the axle. Here you can see the blue and green wires are fused together

 

 

On the wire insulation does it say AWG number?  Or thickness in mm? For this current probably need 10AWG at least (copper area of 2.6mm in diameter).

[mrelwood]

39 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Could it be that these are aluminium wires?! Or is there any other reason why the inside looks silverish? (continously tinned?)

Many cables are indeed tinned throughout, to prevent the copper from oxidizing.

39 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Edit: This also seems to be a stranded wire?!

Solid wires are stiff and break easily if continuously twisted. Any device prone to shaking uses wires with multiple strands, pretty much everywhere.

[Chriull]

4 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Many cables are indeed tinned throughout, to prevent the copper from oxidizing.

Solid wires are stiff and break easily if continuously twisted. Any device prone to shaking uses wires with multiple strands, pretty much everywhere.

Yes - it was just one awg table that showed less current limit for stranded wires compared to solid wires. But this seems to be just a "safety concern for house installation" taking into account that single strands could break?

Resistance is about the same for the solid and the stranded wires (if i remember correctly AWG 14 used?):

	AWG	Diameter	Resistance	Resistance Total	Power Dissipation (W) for 0.5m at
		mm	Ohm/km	Ohm/km	20A	50A	100A
Solid Wire	14	1,63	8,55	8,55	1,71	10,69	42,75
Stranded AWG 14
Strands
7	22	0,64	54,70	7,81	1,56	9,77	39,07
19	27	0,361	174,00	9,16	1,83	11,45	45,79
41	30	0,255	349,00	8,51	1,70	10,64	42,56
105	34	0,16	884,00	8,42	1,68	10,52	42,10

 

25 minutes ago, Alj said:

For this current probably need 10AWG at least

Should be, if there was enough room inside the axle...

At the ~100A @Marty Backe uses about as current alarm for GW wheels there would be ~40W power disspation at 50 cm AWG 14 cables.... Not a too sustainable/healthy design... ;(

PS.: But that's about standard with all the wheels by now (as afair Marty mentioned - same wires as with MSP/X/...)? Or some already have thicker axles and thicker wires used?

[Planemo]

8 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Solid wires are stiff and break easily if continuously twisted. Any device prone to shaking uses wires with multiple strands, pretty much everywhere.

The motor wires on my msx (where they exit the hub and go to the board) are incredibly stiff. I would have said they were solid core but it could just be that they are very stiff stranded (like household wiring). Either way, they certainly dont flex!

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I thought perhaps I could remove the three motor wires, add the provided wire sheathing, and re-route the wires through the axle. After looking at this I've decided that's a task best done while the motor is being assembled.

Pulling new wires is challenging but you could easily handle the task. If you decide to work on both sides of the motor simultaneously I have some great business cards for realignment . 

 

 

 

[Chriull]

17 minutes ago, Planemo said:

The motor wires on my msx (where they exit the hub and go to the board) are incredibly stiff.

Just had to try "stiffness" with normal "copper household" wires we use around here. They are 1.5mm in diameter - so between AWG 14 and 15. As they are stiff i would not say incredible - they are easy to bend or install. Even the 4 wire 1.5mm "compound wires" (2 phases, ground and neutral) are no problem - just the thick common outer insulation makes them a bit "unhandy"...

17 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I would have said they were solid core but it could just be that they are very stiff stranded (like household wiring). Either way, they certainly dont flex!

For the battery wires afaik fine stranded wires are used - they are nicely flexible...

[Rehab1]

30 minutes ago, Planemo said:

The motor wires on my msx (where they exit the hub and go to the board) are incredibly stiff. I would have said they were solid core but it could just be that they are very stiff stranded (like household wiring). Either way, they certainly dont flex!

When I rewired my old ACM motor I used high temp silicone wires which were extremely flexible.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Rehab1

[meepmeepmayer]

It's funny how this is a precise repeat of what happened 3 years ago with the ACM/ms3 level wheels. Back then, cables melted and mosfets fried. They used thicker cabling (barely, but it worked) which necessitated a thicker axle, and bigger mosfets. Now, at a new higher power level, cables melted and a capacitor fried, and guess what the solution must be: thicker axle with thicker cables, and bigger caps.

It's embarassing, but at least something positive will come from this... right? Right?!

[Chriull]

9 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

It's funny how this is a precise repeat of what happened 3 years ago with the ACM/ms3 level wheels. Back then, cables melted and mosfets fried. They used thicker cabling (barely, but it worked) which necessitated a thicker axle, and bigger mosfets. Now, at a new higher power level, cables melted and a capacitor fried, and guess what the solution must be: thicker axle with thicker cables, and bigger caps.

It's embarassing, but at least something positive will come from this... right? Right?!

So it's time again to show the foto with real motor wires: