Popular Post Jim Martin Posted July 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 20, 2020 4 hours ago, Rehab1 said: If you remove both of the motor’s cover (hub) plates the armature will be magnetically drawn to one side. Those magnets are super strong! If you install the cards ( any business card will do) first before removing the contralateral cover the armature will remain centered. This makes reassembly much easier. So that's why Jason puts 100's of business cards in the box when you get a new wheel 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlasP Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Still fascinating that these supposedly "veteran" Chinese EUC designers still wouldn't even pass basic/freshman western electrical engineering courses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 14 hours ago, Jim Martin said: So that's why Jason puts 100's of business cards in the box when you get a new wheel That’s funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted July 22, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 22, 2020 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Love your B/W photos. I thought about adding a bird flyover ‘shoulder shot’ but decided not to soil your outfit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted July 23, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) New Control Boards I have two new control boards from Veteran (different firmware in each). Thought I'd post a full-resolution picture for those who find this interesting. Click for full-size picture. Does anyone know what the temperature sensor looks like that they probably use to monitor the board temperature? Can you spot it on this board and if so, where is it? My previous board disintegrated (heat damage) in the upper left section of the board. The new firmware apparently better monitors the board temperature. I'm hoping the temperature sensor is in a reasonable spot on the board. Edited July 23, 2020 by Marty Backe 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Tucker Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 On high performance computer motherboards the temperature is taken from several sensors located in strategic places across the whole board, I wish they took that approach. And I wish for a wire temperature sensor like Eddie Moy did with his MSX, although it turned out that normal aggressive riding did not strain the wires in the MSX. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Does anyone know what the temperature sensor looks like that they probably use to monitor the board temperature? Can you spot it on this board and if so, where is it? For all of your time consuming efforts and testing the Sherman engineers should provide you with a descriptive layout of the board’s components including the location of the temperature sensors. 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: The new firmware apparently better monitors the board temperature. I'm hoping the temperature sensor is in a reasonable spot on the board. I still have my bluetooth, dual probe temperature data logger your welcome to borrow. I mounted the logger box on the outside of my ACM. In this link there is a video of data logger’s operation. https://www.onsetcomp.com/products/data-loggers/mx2303/ Edited July 23, 2020 by Rehab1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryon01 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: New Control Boards I have two new control boards from Veteran (different firmware in each). Does anyone know what the temperature sensor looks like that they probably use to monitor the board temperature? Can you spot it on this board and if so, where is it? My previous board disintegrated (heat damage) in the upper left section of the board. The new firmware apparently better monitors the board temperature. I'm hoping the temperature sensor is in a reasonable spot on the board. Well your board disintegrated where the battery leads go into the board. I almost think that your board actually died due to the PCB overheating from the amount of current. The FETs themselves didn't look that bad. The legs may have been burned off due to the board being red hot. Hopefully the board temp is located near the battery leads, but doesn't appear so. It is likely near the microcontroller. (Could be in the uc too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alj Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Marty Backe said: New Control Boards I have two new control boards from Veteran (different firmware in each). Thought I'd post a full-resolution picture for those who find this interesting. Click for full-size picture. Does anyone know what the temperature sensor looks like that they probably use to monitor the board temperature? Can you spot it on this board and if so, where is it? My previous board disintegrated (heat damage) in the upper left section of the board. The new firmware apparently better monitors the board temperature. I'm hoping the temperature sensor is in a reasonable spot on the board. The square chip which what it seems like STM32 MCU has built in temp sensor for self monitoring (that is what most likely used in the software). Also you won't be able to spot temp sensor on the board (if there is any) because it looks very similar to SMD resistor or SMD ferrite coil. Ideally tmp sensor should be glued to the MOSFET, in which case it may look like generic diode in glass enclosure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 40 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: For all of your time consuming efforts and testing the Sherman engineers should provide you with a descriptive layout of the board’s components including the location of the temperature sensors. I still have my bluetooth, dual probe temperature data logger your welcome to borrow. I mounted the logger box on the outside of my ACM. In this link there is a video of data logger’s operation. https://www.onsetcomp.com/products/data-loggers/mx2303/ I can't even get them to tell me the firmware differences between the two boards they sent me. All they say is use the one on the right first. Either they play dumb with the language barrier and ignore me or the language barrier is too strong. Very tempting to take up your offer Dan. For now I'm going to stick with the temp's provided by the control board. Thanks 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, Alj said: The square chip which what it seems like STM32 MCU has built in temp sensor for self monitoring (that is what most likely used in the software). Also you won't be able to spot temp sensor on the board (if there is any) because it looks very similar to SMD resistor or SMD ferrite coil. Ideally tmp sensor should be glued to the MOSFET, in which case it may look like generic diode in glass enclosure. If that's where they get the temperature it's not very useful for this application. By the time that temperature is too high because of melting in the corner of the board, it's too late. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alj Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: If that's where they get the temperature it's not very useful for this application. By the time that temperature is too high because of melting in the corner of the board, it's too late. Well any place except for "directly on the MOSFET" will be just barely informative and will be defined by how well heat transfers from the MOSFET to that place. Do they have anything besides MOSFET touching the heat sink (to measure its temp)? THat is what usually people do. However in our case it would not help because heatsink was not melting obviously but MOSFETs did because they were much hotter than the heat sink and that's why they failed, not being able to transfer heat to the sink efficiently. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esbu Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Can you spot it on this board and if so, where is it? If it's just a piece of aluminum touching the chip, it looks like that piece of aluminum is right next to that temperature chip and acts as a "temperature flywheel". But I'm not sure. Edit: based on next replies - it's wrong Edited July 24, 2020 by Esbu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Not knowing the difference is necessary to minimize bias and see if any subtle effects they might be looking for are really tangible. Sounds to me like they know what they are doing when it comes to comparisons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esbu Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Alj said: they were much hotter than the heat sink and that's why they failed, not being able to transfer heat to the sink efficiently. On 6/13/2020 at 12:38 PM, Esbu said: About cooling and heat removal, I am asking myself, why EUC engineers are not inspired by heatpipe cooling mechanism... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Very tempting to take up your offer Dan. For now I'm going to stick with the temp's provided by the control board. I hope one of the boards they sent you proves successful! Edited July 24, 2020 by Rehab1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Stern Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 32 minutes ago, Esbu said: If it's just a piece of aluminum touching the chip, it looks like that piece of aluminum is right next to that temperature chip and acts as a "temperature flywheel". But I'm not sure. That's just the ground on a thermally enhanced package. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted July 24, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 24, 2020 12 hours ago, FreeRide said: Not knowing the difference is necessary to minimize bias and see if any subtle effects they might be looking for are really tangible. Sounds to me like they know what they are doing when it comes to comparisons. Except that I'm not sure I agreed to swap boards to participate in a "blind taste test". Installing the control board is a major pain in the butt - the entire wheel must be disassembled to do so. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 So if board A does not give the desired results then you have to put in board B? What happens when it is decided board A was better? Reinstall board A again? wow. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryman Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Except that I'm not sure I agreed to swap boards to participate in a "blind taste test". Installing the control board is a major pain in the butt - the entire wheel must be disassembled to do so. That should be done at the factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gadgetfann Posted July 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Except that I'm not sure I agreed to swap boards to participate in a "blind taste test". Installing the control board is a major pain in the butt - the entire wheel must be disassembled to do so. All of us who have preordered sincerely appreciate the time and effort you’re putting forth to help make the Sherman a better, more reliable wheel. I would have surely cancelled my pre-order and waited for one of the new Gotway wheels if not for your endorsement of this wheel, testing and ongoing feedback. If one of these control boards results in a successful overheat hill test you’re going to make hundreds of us breathe a sigh of relief and feel better about spending our hard earned money. We all owe you a debt of gratitude. 👍👍 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erk1024 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, Gadgetfann said: If one of these control boards results in a successful overheat hill test you’re going to make hundreds of us breathe a sigh of relief and feel better about spending our hard earned money So a successful result would be that the board safely detects that it's overheating and goes into tiltback, right? Doesn't seem like a firmware fix will add more torque to the motor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgetfann Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, erk1024 said: So a successful result would be that the board safely detects that it's overheating and goes into tiltback, right? Doesn't seem like a firmware fix will add more torque to the motor. If Veteran can accomplish what Jason mentioned in his latest email about the Sherman, I’d consider Marty’s test successful. Quote from the email... “Veteran is working on improving the firmware/controller combination in order to be capable of tackling the most grueling inclines without self-immolation.” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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