KS18A with up to 1500Wh battery

[1RadWerkstatt]

The MSuper HS (HighSpeed) runs not 41km/h please test it with GPS!

All KingSongs have Speedlimit as 30km/h after you have ride 100km, before max. speed limit is set to 20km/h for safety.

The 30km/h and 20km/h is real Speed no fake such as GotWay.

The 30km/h KingSong KS18 is faster than the GotWay MS with "runs" 34km/h and you have a safe Tilt-Back function with the KingSongs

[sylvere]

The KS 1100W goes to 40km/h  and the KS 800W goes to 30km/h

[JamakinJoel]

Does anyone know where I can order an 1100W in the US?

[OliverH]

He guys. 30 or 40 km/h is to much. Doing a face plant at that speed will be heavy. I can't understand why all vendors are comparing each other with max. speed. That's freaks area. This should be called freak mode in the app (stiff and speed beyond limit). Just my 2 cent

[Cloud]

On 11 декабря 2015 г. at 10:08 PM, Fuerte said:

1 hour ago, OliverH said:

He guys. 30 or 40 km/h is to much. Doing a face plant at that speed will be heavy. I can't understand why all vendors are comparing each other with max. speed. That's freaks area. This should be called freak mode in the app (stiff and speed beyond limit). Just my 2 cent

 

Freaks area, but it sells. Thats why they advertise it. Lets face it - we , euc lovers, are all freaks in a way...

10 hours ago, 1RadWerkstatt said:

The MSuper HS (HighSpeed) runs not 41km/h please test it with GPS!

All KingSongs have Speedlimit as 30km/h after you have ride 100km, before max. speed limit is set to 20km/h for safety.

The 30km/h and 20km/h is real Speed no fake such as GotWay.

The 30km/h KingSong KS18 is faster than the GotWay MS with "runs" 34km/h and you have a safe Tilt-Back function with the KingSongs

There may be a confusion here. Does anyone know if kingsongs limits the 18" 1100w speed to 30 or not? Maybe they do limit it and just saying that the motor is capable of doing 40? I would think this is the case, but i would like to be wrong and to find out that they can allow a safe operation and speeds unrestricted to 40kph

[Cloud]

Ok Kingsong just confirmed to me that 18" 1100w will actually go up to 40kph.

they dont want to make a choice bwteeen the msuper and Kingson 18" too easy  Sounds like considering the inflated gotway app speeds, kingsong 18" at this time may be a contender for the 1st place as the fastest wheel out there....

still not clear which to choose when i get around to getting my first 18". Msuper is less bulky and lighter, Has a good reliability track record and enjoys great reviews from those who own one, has better distance range on the single charge.

kingson boasts the headlight, music, a seat, potentially higher capacity internal battery, presumably a more pronounced and solid high speed tiltback,  and now possibly faster. 

Tough choice.

[OliverH]

7 hours ago, Cloud said:

Ok Kingsong just confirmed to me that 18" 1100w will actually go up to 40kph.

they dont want to make a choice bwteeen the msuper and Kingson 18" too easy  Sounds like considering the inflated gotway app speeds, kingsong 18" at this time may be a contender for the 1st place as the fastest wheel out there....

still not clear which to choose when i get around to getting my first 18". Msuper is less bulky and lighter, Has a good reliability track record and enjoys great reviews from those who own one, has better distance range on the single charge.

kingson boasts the headlight, music, a seat, potentially higher capacity internal battery, presumably a more pronounced and solid high speed tiltback,  and now possibly faster. 

Tough choice.

I've test driven both. The MSuper I felt very safe and it was a power monster which boost me up the hill and I'm a heavy rider.  The KS18 (only driven the 500W version) impressed me also. Lights and the behaviour handling in Firmware (tilt back when overheating) looks they follow a safety path where this high speed stuff doesn't fit to.

When I read the measures from @Jason McNeil than you can think that all vendors don't do sophisticated test with unit/ the electric chain. And I believe that this is true from discussions with some of them. 

Currently I tend to buy the MSuper but like to wait for a V3 with hopefully light. 

Maybe this power cuts must be addressed with a third battery pack go have more capacity available.

[Cloud]

11 minutes ago, OliverH said:

I've test driven both. The MSuper I felt very safe and it was a power monster which boost me up the hill and I'm a heavy rider.  The KS18 (only driven the 500W version) impressed me also. Lights and the behaviour handling in Firmware (tilt back when overheating) looks they follow a safety path where this high speed stuff doesn't fit to.

When I read the measures from @Jason McNeil than you can think that all vendors don't do sophisticated test with unit/ the electric chain. And I believe that this is true from discussions with some of them. 

Currently I tend to buy the MSuper but like to wait for a V3 with hopefully light. 

Maybe this power cuts must be addressed with a third battery pack go have more capacity available.

How maneuvarable was msuper when you tested it? When i tried kingsong 18 it was hard to turn, very bulky. Is it oretty much the same feeling with msuoer due ti the wheel size and weight?

yes, i agree, , if i ever get msuper i would hope for a new version that has a light and a reliable tiltback

[1RadWerkstatt]

9 hours ago, Cloud said:

Freaks area, but it sells. Thats why they advertise it. Lets face it - we , euc lovers, are all freaks in a way...

There may be a confusion here. Does anyone know if kingsongs limits the 18" 1100w speed to 30 or not? Maybe they do limit it and just saying that the motor is capable of doing 40? I would think this is the case, but i would like to be wrong and to find out that they can allow a safe operation and speeds unrestricted to 40kph

The 1100W KS18-A original configuration rides 40km/h safe but generally 40km/h is dangerous unsafe and risky on every Wheel.

We consider for Germany a lock to 30km/h for the KS18-A with 1100W Motor.

When you fall over (power cut or all other things) with 40km/h you can die with the Wheel....

Many rider drive without any protections.

[sylvere]

16 hours ago, Cloud said:

Freaks area, but it sells. Thats why they advertise it. Lets face it - we , euc lovers, are all freaks in a way...

There may be a confusion here. Does anyone know if kingsongs limits the 18" 1100w speed to 30 or not? Maybe they do limit it and just saying that the motor is capable of doing 40? I would think this is the case, but i would like to be wrong and to find out that they can allow a safe operation and speeds unrestricted to 40kph

800w at 30km/h  is safe incuding the security marge , i believe they could cut after 35km/h

1100w at 40km/h including the  security marge  i saw the APP is not correct after 30km/h 

33km/h = 30km/h  on the KS-18 ( not the ks-14c) i didn't test the max speed yet

For a 680 batterie 60V, (P=U*I) 60*40 = 2400W usable for nominal + i believe condensators can also help for a peak 

For 1360wh batterie 60V = 4800W 

680wh for a 800w motor shoud be find

1360wh for a 1100w should be a obligation i beleive 

i will not use a 680wh for a 1100w exept if both condensateurs can give a half juice for a Peak ? 

 

 

  

 

 

 

[Yashaya Yasharahla]

On 2015년 12월 24일 at 6:35 PM, 1RadWerkstatt said:

The 1100W KS18-A original configuration rides 40km/h safe but generally 40km/h is dangerous unsafe and risky on every Wheel.

We consider for Germany a lock to 30km/h for the KS18-A with 1100W Motor.

When you fall over (power cut or all other things) with 40km/h you can die with the Wheel....

Many rider drive without any protections.

1RadWerkstatt,

Hi! I was referred to you by another electric unicycle user in this forum. I have an KS18-A with a 800W motor and an LG Lithium 591 Wh battery inside. Can you help me get parts to upgrade the battery? I'm a heavy guy (105 kg) and the battery dies fast. What's the maximum battery I can install in my KS18-A 800W and where can I buy the parts? Lastly, can I install the batteries myself? Is there a YouTube page that shows how to do it? Sorry about so many questions. I really want to upgrade the battery as I am in South Korea and I have a huge language barrier and the store that sold me the wheel knows the batteries ship from China but they don't buy those specific parts to sell in Korea. I really appreciate your help in advance. 

 

Yashaya

[zlymex]

On 2015/12/4 at 2:22 AM, esaj said:

Not bad price, although it seems it's with the older 500W motor instead of 800W (or even newer, 1100W). I think that the 1360Wh models are made with 8 * 174Wh packs (they've probably rounded it to 170Wh per pack, 8 * 170 = 1360), but could be wrong.

I opened the compartments of a KS18A 1360Wh model Yesterday. There are three packs: one is on the top that consists of 64 cells with one BMS board. The other two are fork shaped on each side that each consists of 32 cells and one BMS. I opened the wrap of the 64-cell-pack as well, cells are Panasonic NCR18650PF(same as  GW MSuper2).

[Cloud]

Cool! There are 3 more packs symmetrically located on the other side too, right?

[esaj]

24 minutes ago, Cloud said:

Cool! There are 3 more packs symmetrically located on the other side too, right?

No, at least to my understanding from @zlymex's description, there are 3 packs in total, one with 64 cells (same amount of cells as 4 * 16S packs, so 16S4P) + two specially shaped 32 cell-packs (so 64 cells in those also in total, 2 packs of 16S2P), coming to a grand total of 128 cells (8 * 16 cells). So my initial assumption of 8 "packs" was both right and wrong: there are the same amount of cells as in 8 separate 16S -packs, but they're packed differently (64 + 32 + 32).

NCR18650PF is 2900mAh (2.9Ah) cell, so using the rounded nominal 60V voltage:

60V * 2.9Ah = 174Wh, 8 * 16-cell series at 174Wh per series = 1392Wh  (or simply 60V * 2.9Ah * 8).

 

[Cloud]

8 minutes ago, esaj said:

No, at least to my understanding from @zlymex's description, there are 3 packs in total, one with 64 cells (same amount of cells as 4 * 16S packs) + two specially shaped 32 cell-packs (so 64 cells in those also in total), coming to a grand total of 128 cells (8 * 16 cells). So my initial assumption of 8 "packs" was both right and wrong: there are the same amount of cells as in 8 separate 16S -packs, but they're packed differently (64 + 32 + 32).

Does this mean that the wheel's mass is not symmetrically distributed? Does it show during riding? Does one have to get used to compansating for the heavier batteries on one side of the wheel? 

[esaj]

3 minutes ago, Cloud said:

Does this mean that the wheel's mass is not symmetrically distributed? Does it show during riding? 

I think they're symmetrical:

35 minutes ago, zlymex said:

one is on the top that consists of 64 cells with one BMS board. The other two are fork shaped on each side that each consists of 32 cells and one BMS.

So one on top (probably in the middle), and two special shaped packs, one on each side. Should be symmetrical & balanced. Maybe a bit top-heavy with the large 64-cell pack on the top of the wheel (the pack weighs something like closer to 3kg).

[Cloud]

Oh ok i misunderstood. I thought he was referring to the forked shape as 2 packs, ok stupid me. I got it now. Thanks!

[zlymex]

@esaj is absolutely right, the 64-cell-pack is on the very top both from side point view or from front-end point of view. I opened both side covers. Also, the wheel is 1100W version.

[Cloud]

@zlymex, can i ask you where you got your wheel and how much you paid? Thanks

[zlymex]

1 hour ago, Cloud said:

@zlymex, can i ask you where you got your wheel and how much you paid? Thanks

The wheel is one of my friends', he got it in China about 4 months ago and paid 8080 RMB including transportation.

The reason for me to look at his wheel is the battery problem. Once there was a problem(fall and dead) and he returned it to the factory and he was fed up with the service/price/delay/manner/bad handling.

Edit: 8080 RMB is the list price, there was a discount of about 12% when he brought it.

[Yashaya Yasharahla]

6 hours ago, esaj said:

No, at least to my understanding from @zlymex's description, there are 3 packs in total, one with 64 cells (same amount of cells as 4 * 16S packs, so 16S4P) + two specially shaped 32 cell-packs (so 64 cells in those also in total, 2 packs of 16S2P), coming to a grand total of 128 cells (8 * 16 cells). So my initial assumption of 8 "packs" was both right and wrong: there are the same amount of cells as in 8 separate 16S -packs, but they're packed differently (64 + 32 + 32).

NCR18650PF is 2900mAh (2.9Ah) cell, so using the rounded nominal 60V voltage:

60V * 2.9Ah = 174Wh, 8 * 16-cell series at 174Wh per series = 1392Wh  (or simply 60V * 2.9Ah * 8).

 

My charger says 67.2V, but why are your computations showing "60V" as a "rounded nominal charge?" 

[Keith]

7 minutes ago, Yashaya Yasharahla said:

My charger says 67.2V, but why are your computations showing "60V" as a "rounded nominal charge?" 

@Yashaya Yasharahla  The max voltage a cell may be charged to is 4.2V/cell x16 cells = 67.2V That is the voltage the charger must put out, any higher will damage the cells, any lower will not fully charge it.

Under load the voltage drops and continues dropping when discharged until at around 3.2V per cell the cell can be considered empty (it will be permanently damaged if discharged below 3V/cell off of load.)

Over a complete discharge cycle the average voltage (and therefore average power) will be somewhere between those 2 extremes and is nominally considered to be 3.7V/cell x 16 cells = 59.8V (which @esaj  rounded to 60V). 

7 hours ago, Cloud said:

Does this mean that the wheel's mass is not symmetrically distributed? Does it show during riding? Does one have to get used to compansating for the heavier batteries on one side of the wheel? 

@Cloud  my 340Wh KingSong has only the one battery pack on one side. I found it much harder to turn right than left so wondered if I needed to add the 2nd pack for better balance. To prove it I rode it backwards (which put the pack on the other side of course - KingSong's, as you know, have a a brake light at the rear so have a definite front, unlike most wheels). I still found it harder to turn right than left. Conclusion: the asymmetric battery pack isn't causing any handling issues - I'm just crap at turning right ?. I'm getting better with practice.

[OliverH]

On 24. Dezember 2015 at 10:21 AM, Cloud said:

How maneuvarable was msuper when you tested it? When i tried kingsong 18 it was hard to turn, very bulky. Is it oretty much the same feeling with msuoer due ti the wheel size and weight?

yes, i agree, , if i ever get msuper i would hope for a new version that has a light and a reliable tiltback

The MSuper needs much more force for turns. I've driven the 850 Wh version. If you can deal with the tall case of the Kingsong it's much more easy to make turns.

The MSuper is like a tank driving through all terrain and the KS18 is very stable but more easy to turn.  Both are very good and always a hint to buy.

[Cloud]

45 minutes ago, OliverH said:

The MSuper needs much more force for turns. I've driven the 850 Wh version. If you can deal with the tall case of the Kingsong it's much more easy to make turns.

The MSuper is like a tank driving through all terrain and the KS18 is very stable but more easy to turn.  Both are very good and always a hint to buy.

Thank you very much Oliver. Ive been trying to get this information for a few months now. In the comparison between the two my assumption was that Msuper is easier to handle ( turn) and i thought this may be a deal breaker for me with Kingsong. Now that you are saying Msuper is harder to turn, for me, Kingsong sounds like a winner between the two. If you think about it, kingsong has a seat, can be fitted with a bigger battery, and sounds like with the new 1100w version can safely go faster than msuper. Not sure what msuper has that kingsong doesnt? One unknown for kingsong is still reliability, and i guess the bigger size coukd be a bit harder to manage, other than that it sounds like a winner.

[OliverH]

2 hours ago, Cloud said:

Thank you very much Oliver. Ive been trying to get this information for a few months now. In the comparison between the two my assumption was that Msuper is easier to handle ( turn) and i thought this may be a deal breaker for me with Kingsong. Now that you are saying Msuper is harder to turn, for me, Kingsong sounds like a winner between the two. If you think about it, kingsong has a seat, can be fitted with a bigger battery, and sounds like with the new 1100w version can safely go faster than msuper. Not sure what msuper has that kingsong doesnt? One unknown for kingsong is still reliability, and i guess the bigger size coukd be a bit harder to manage, other than that it sounds like a winner.

If you see the Kingsong you think oouuch. You never imagine to make turns. If you've the wheel between your legs and don't press it a stand relaxed on the pedals you can turn it easily. Made a trip down the hill in the Forrest in a dry and small track with stones. No problems at all. I drained the KS18-500W 680 Wh very fast. But maybe this was the version with the 55V setting (low limit). The motherboard has changed than again 1 or 2 times and I'm more heavy than you.

To store the KS18 in the back compartment of your car you need more space. I'm looking forward for the new MSuper if it hit the shops in time. 

10 hours ago, zlymex said:

The wheel is one of my friends', he got it in China about 4 months ago and paid 8080 RMB including transportation.

The reason for me to look at his wheel is the battery problem. Once there was a problem(fall and dead) and he returned it to the factory and he was fed up with the service/price/delay/manner/bad handling.

Edit: 8080 RMB is the list price, there was a discount of about 12% when he brought it.

That's pretty cheap for a KS18-1100W 1360Wh. Shipping to Europe, the channels margin and a risk approach on top for the 24 month warranty by law over here makes it more expensive.