What 360 to recommend in summer 2020?

[davinche]

3 minutes ago, z3n said:

Insta360 ONE X

• Best post editing app and software

"Best post editing app" - from the company. If your workflow involves editing in Resolve or AE/AP,  then the app from Insta360 or GoPro shouldn't be a factor.

Edited June 29, 2020 by davinche

[Jon Stern]

19 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I agree.. The max is a great 360 cam, but they made damn sure it isnt as good an image as you can get in their hero 7/8 series.

This is not due to a deliberate conspiracy. It's down to technology. Capturing 360 content with the same angular resolution as the 4k HERO cameras would require dual 50MP sensors, something like 800Mbps encode rates, and some amazing strides in power reduction and battery technology. And let's not even talk about those lenses! That will give me nightmares!
Oh, and no phone would be able to handle the 360 content for many, many years.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Jon Stern

[Jon Stern]

15 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

This is why I ran away from the GoPro route. Their software is notorious for being very slow. This cannot be understated.

That was on Fusion. For Max it's a different story because of a completely different camera architecture.

[newbie101]

Btw, The Insta360 One R has a overheating problem.

 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, davinche said:

That's why I was saying Insta360 has the "app" advantage: both desktop and mobile apps are way better than what GoPro has. But if you're willing to edit in (After effects? Premier Pro?), then it doesn't really matter which camera you use because GoPro has the reframe plugin that works for both the Max and the Insta360 videos, and gives you a lot more control on reframing.

So I can take my raw Insta videos and do everything I need in Premiere via a "free" plugin from GoPro?

I need to look this up and do some experimentation.

[davinche]

30 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

So I can take my raw Insta videos and do everything I need in Premiere via a "free" plugin from GoPro?

I need to look this up and do some experimentation.

I believe so. Here's the relevant help article on insta360s website.

https://www.insta360.com/support/supportcourse?post_id=17187

Edited June 30, 2020 by davinche

[Jon Stern]

41 minutes ago, davinche said:

I believe so. Here's the relevant help article on insta360s website.

https://www.insta360.com/support/supportcourse?post_id=17187

Wow! That's really cheeky.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, davinche said:

I believe so. Here's the relevant help article on insta360s website.

https://www.insta360.com/support/supportcourse?post_id=17187

Very cool. I need to play with this.

34 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

Wow! That's really cheeky.

I guess if GoPro makes it freely available, anything goes. It is surprising that it's actually on the Insta website. But they are a Chinese company after all 

[.....]

5 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Insta 360 calls it "Lock Direction" which is much more useful than your "World Lock" for EUC videos. Insta also has your "track object" capability, but it's not nearly as good as the "lock direction" functionality.

If GoPro doesn't have a "lock direction" function that would be enough to keep me from ever buying one. Editing just takes too much time as it is.

How ironic, I usually HATE using the "lock direction". I get to choose to use it or not while stitching it, so i compare both ways sometimes. If I 'lock direction', the camera NEVER changes view and as I turn, it just aims the same direction and doesnt follow me or the camera. Out here with 99 turns in 6 miles, 'direction lock' translates into me having to reframe for every turn. Now it looks REALLY smooth, but its TOO smooth. I've done it both ways and I just seem to have to do less to get more, by being mindful of how I hold it and NOT using 'direction lock' or using 'tracking' much.  I have tape on my sticks to help me feel which way im pointed w/o looking.Tracking is cool for the closeup follow the wheel shots tho. Regardless, I dont have to worry about ANY of those things while capturing, its just choices in post is all.  I've already dropped my max into a creek(its in one of my vids lol), so its definitely waterproof for a few feet anyhow. I KNEW I was buying into gopro's bullshit windows software, but after waiting forever to get an insta, I realized that customer support and warranty would be a little less than satisfying. So far, Gopro has been pretty good with service, tho i do really stay pissed that they arent better to us windows users. Maybe GoPro is waiting on Insta to figure it out so they can just 'borrow' it and save that r&d. One thing for certain, insta aint got a chance when it comes to in camera audio. The clarity of my bitching is uber important. I've never used 'rental' software, so adobe isnt a financial option for me to try.

Edited June 30, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Marty Backe]

29 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

How ironic, I usually HATE using the "lock direction". I get to choose to use it or not while stitching it, so i compare both ways sometimes. If I 'lock direction', the camera NEVER changes view and as I turn, it just aims the same direction and doesnt follow me or the camera. Out here with 99 turns in 6 miles, 'direction lock' translates into me having to reframe for every turn. Now it looks REALLY smooth, but its TOO smooth. I've done it both ways and I just seem to have to do less to get more, by being mindful of how I hold it and NOT using 'direction lock' or using 'tracking' much.  I have tape on my sticks to help me feel which way im pointed w/o looking.Tracking is cool for the closeup follow the wheel shots tho. Regardless, I dont have to worry about ANY of those things while capturing, its just choices in post is all.  I've already dropped my max into a creek(its in one of my vids lol), so its definitely waterproof for a few feet anyhow. I KNEW I was buying into gopro's bullshit windows software, but after waiting forever to get an insta, I realized that customer support and warranty would be a little less than satisfying. So far, Gopro has been pretty good with service, tho i do really stay pissed that they arent better to us windows users. Maybe GoPro is waiting on Insta to figure it out so they can just 'borrow' it and save that r&d. One thing for certain, insta aint got a chance when it comes to in camera audio. The clarity of my bitching is uber important. I've never used 'rental' software, so adobe isnt a financial option for me to try.

With the Insta X, if I enable Lock Direction, it maintains whatever direction I point the View at in the editor. So I lock it on me and I remain in the center of the frame regardless of how I move in the world. Sounds like your Lock function behaves a bit different.

But at the end of the day whatever works for us is all that matters.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Marty Backe

[.....]

Its 'world lock' on the gopro exporter. If I set the view to point north (360 cut down to 2d), the camera points North no matter how I shake it or rotate it. It also seems to lock the horizon as well. After the gopro exporter stitches it in 'world lock', the video I have to use in the editor, is solid and never really moves. The camera changes location/distance, but the angle/direction remains(VERY FLOATY). VERY cool for when Im going straight, but as I move with the road and turn, I will also move in and out of frame.  Its in the editor (after exporter) that I can choose to have it lock onto an object. Locking comes AFTER 'world lock', so i could choose to lock to myself and when I unlocked it (unfollow), it would go back to that static facing view of last most recent keyframe. Of course, once you change view direction, THAT direction becomes the static direction.  Hard to explain, took me a few moments to realize wtf it was doing. You get different results on how you do it, you just have to have a gameplan as its all time consuming. I dont use world lock, I try to keep the stick aimed... just my workflow and my vids are far from stellar.  I have an ipad I could use with the cam, and I'd bet money that gopro has some kind of app that does more than what I do.  Regardless, the gopro also has its problems, so I'm not apt to say that either is really better. Choices are a wonderful thing!

Funny how insta calls it "lock direction", tho it isnt locking direction, its object tracking. Gopro has 'lock direction' and they call it "world lock". as direction is not dependent on a moving object. Following an object is POST stitching in my workflow and its not a function of gopro software. I'd bet it is in the gopro editor for ios/tablets tho. "world lock" and "object following" can be used together or separately or not at all. NONE of these are settings on the actual camera, its ALL post capture in my workflow.

Edited June 30, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Unventor]

14 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

With the Insta X, if I enable Lock Direction, it maintains whatever direction I point the View at in the editor. So I lock it on me and I remain in the center of the frame regardless of how I move in the world. Sounds like your Lock function behaves a bit different.

But at the end of the day whatever works for us is all that matters.

To me it sound more of image recognition so when you look in one direction (the holder of the camera) this remain in frame. But looking outwards it is a direction as you dot have an person to lock on to. If you had a 2nd fide it could be locking on to that silhouette of that person.

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

To me it sound more of image recognition so when you look in one direction (the holder of the camera) this remain in frame. But looking outwards it is a direction as you dot have an person to lock on to. If you had a 2nd fide it could be locking on to that silhouette of that person.

No. It's pure geometry based on where you set the "view" relative to the z-axis of the camera. It's dead simple and perfectly accurate. You'll see the effect in my videos. I'm always in the center of the frame and as I turn in the real world the camera tracks me smoothly. And sometimes when I want the viewer to see the road in front of me, I set the view looking 180-degrees away from me.

[.....]

9 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

No. It's pure geometry based on where you set the "view" relative to the z-axis of the camera. It's dead simple and perfectly accurate. You'll see the effect in my videos. I'm always in the center of the frame and as I turn in the real world the camera tracks me smoothly. And sometimes when I want the viewer to see the road in front of me, I set the view looking 180-degrees away from me.

I don't really understand and I KNOW its simple? So it locks to the camera axis? How is this any different than when you set a keyframe location and just leave it? "world lock' on gopro sets to the earth's axis. So if i turn the camera, the view stays the same. I only stay in view IF I am between the camera and the 'world' location that is set. I KNOW I've seen what you are talking about, I just cant wrap my foggy head around it. I can set lens preference on the camera, to aid in microphone placement and what i see on the live camera screen, but that doesnt mean shit to the video(it does for audio tho!) once exported. I dont lock any axis via camera, but i do try to hold it so the stitching isnt dividing an image I'm especially concerned about. Typically I just hold it so the screen faces me, to ensure people can hear me bitch. Even when changing views later, the bitching audio remains. Of course, using stereo audio is entirely different.

Edited June 30, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Its 'world lock' on the gopro exporter. If I set the view to point north (360 cut down to 2d), the camera points North no matter how I shake it or rotate it. It also seems to lock the horizon as well. After the gopro exporter stitches it in 'world lock', the video I have to use in the editor, is solid and never really moves. The camera changes location/distance, but the angle/direction remains(VERY FLOATY). VERY cool for when Im going straight, but as I move with the road and turn, I will also move in and out of frame.  Its in the editor (after exporter) that I can choose to have it lock onto an object. Locking comes AFTER 'world lock', so i could choose to lock to myself and when I unlocked it (unfollow), it would go back to that static facing view of last most recent keyframe. Of course, once you change view direction, THAT direction becomes the static direction.  Hard to explain, took me a few moments to realize wtf it was doing. You get different results on how you do it, you just have to have a gameplan as its all time consuming. I dont use world lock, I try to keep the stick aimed... just my workflow and my vids are far from stellar.  I have an ipad I could use with the cam, and I'd bet money that gopro has some kind of app that does more than what I do.  Regardless, the gopro also has its problems, so I'm not apt to say that either is really better. Choices are a wonderful thing!

Funny how insta calls it "lock direction", tho it isnt locking direction, its object tracking. Gopro has 'lock direction' and they call it "world lock". as direction is not dependent on a moving object. Following an object is POST stitching in my workflow and its not a function of gopro software. I'd bet it is in the gopro editor for ios/tablets tho. "world lock" and "object following" can be used together or separately or not at all. NONE of these are settings on the actual camera, its ALL post capture in my workflow.

The Insta is not "object" tracking. That would imply it knows something about objects in the field of view. It simply locks the view to the camera's z-axis or an offset to the z-axis that you specify. I usually specify 180-degrees so it points right at my hand.

I don't think we're going to ever understand each others descriptions 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Marty Backe

[stephen]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

No. It's pure geometry based on where you set the "view" relative to the z-axis of the camera. It's dead simple and perfectly accurate. You'll see the effect in my videos. I'm always in the center of the frame and as I turn in the real world the camera tracks me smoothly. And sometimes when I want the viewer to see the road in front of me, I set the view looking 180-degrees away from me.

I'll try it on my next video 👍👍

[stephen]

Insta360 gps remote is in stock

https://store.insta360.com/product/GPS_Smart_Remote

[Unventor]

Thanks for all the input. Today I put my order in for the Insta360 one R twin. Added 360 lens protection caps and 120gb Samsung sdxc card and a insta 70cm selphy stick. (That is out of stuck).

I figured I start small and maybe work my way up. And I have a clip mount too and my ram mount too. Do we shall see what I can make of this. 

[Jon Stern]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

Thanks for all the input. Today I put my order in for the Insta360 one R twin.

Noooooooooo!

[RustyLogic]

Got my insta360 One R a couple of days ago and I can sum it up with one word.. "fog".

Doesn't matter what I do with it, the lenses fog up in the middle and ruin the footage, doesn't matter if it's hot or cold. After a goole it seems to be a known issue and I'm attempting to RMA it but they are already fighting me because I used the word fog. Will let you know what happens.

[Unventor]

22 hours ago, Jon Stern said:

Noooooooooo!

Yessss. 😁

We will see how it goes...there might be an issue or not. Either way it just seems a way better option for me.

And in worst case I will just do the warranty claim. Working in it and camera business I know how to do this so I am not worried about it. 

It is very rare I have a warranty claim turned down. But I bought at a well known reseller in my resident country, so it is all good. Just take a few days of delivery. In 5 days I am up and running and I have 2weeks by law to decide to keep it or not since it is an internet purchase (eu laws of consumer trade). Swedish consumer purchase law give me 3 years of limited manufactor warranty.

Since we have poor EUC riding weather the next few days, the shipping time means less. 

Now I am just waiting for finalizing the shipping of the V11. 

[Unventor]

I picked up my Insta360 one R today. Took it for a spin on a 45 min ride about 16km (10mil).

I am playing with the editing software as I type. But this take some serious computing power. So maybe I am a simple test video tonight or tomorrow. 

[Bridgeboy]

I bought the Insta360 One recently since it was on sale for only $199 and this was my first time taking 360° video. I didn't really do any research but I figured it was a good starter.

But, so far, I'm disappointed in the video quality after using Free Capture in the Insta360 Studio 2020 software. It's not nearly as sharp and crisp as I thought it would be. For anything that more than 4' away (in other words anything other than myself at the end of the selfie stick) it is a blurry mess. I took a ride with my family and you can see them there, but you can't make out their faces or anything. I have so much to learn!

Am I doing something wrong in post editing? Or do I simply need a better camera? What do i need to do to be able to upload 4K video to YouTube like Marty and Chooch and these other guys do?

I created a new YouTube Channel called Wheeling Family Robinson where our whole family of four rides EUCs. (Oh, I exported the video again using the Remove Grain function in Insta360 Studio 2020 and it is not as blurry as before) I uploaded several videos so far and more are in process, check 'em out:

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Bridgeboy
Link YouTube Video