Thinking of upgrading from an 18XL to a GW, but which one? Nikola or MSP?

[meepmeepmayer]

You already know what you really want.

Sherman
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The MSP is great, but now I see little reason to prefer one over a Sherman (Lower weight?  Maybe better maneuverability in some situations due to the lower weight?).

[Rywokast]

32 minutes ago, travsformation said:

So, back to the choice of wheel dilemma. It's no longer between the Nikola and the MSP, but the MSP and the Sherman... 😅😂

well if you already have an 18XL and 16X then the sherman seems like the obvious choice  

[Ben Hatfield]

On 6/29/2020 at 7:12 AM, Marty Backe said:

Please note my emoticon in the post. I was only teasing you regarding the "negative image". I meant no harm.

just reading back through this thread - appreciate the clarification - should of been obvious on my first pass, my mind must of been somewhere else

I've been riding the MSP a lot, and having a ton of fun - Definitely can get more range if I press the battery % down (very low).  Still getting the feel for how the battery reports and how much performance to expect in that last 20% - even with the change in settings

Edited July 12, 2020 by Ben Hatfield

[travsformation]

16 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

You already know what you really want.

Sherman
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m
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The MSP is great, but now I see little reason to prefer one over a Sherman (Lower weight?  Maybe better maneuverability in some situations due to the lower weight?).

Unfortunately, it isn't just about what I want... 

As you know, in the EU there are legal considerations to take into account too. In Spain all PLEVs capable of more than 25 km/h are technically illegal (although outside of large cities it's not enforced), but with my 18XL and 16X I have the advantage that:

1. They were factory limited to 20 km/h
    
2. I can use EUC World to apply "regulatory compliance" with the touch of my Flic button.
    
3. Police aren't allowed to check my phone, so they can't prove that I've unlocked it. Even if they confiscate my wheel to check, the wheel will be limited to 20 km/h. They have no way of proving that I raised it to 50 km/h and reverted it to 20 the second they stopped me.

Which leads me to a question I should have asked a while ago...what's the case with the MSP? It isn't factory-limited is it?

But even if it isn't, points 2 and 3 still work to my advantage. With the Sherman, that isn't the case. Police are allowed to inspect my vehicle, and if there's a big LCD screen that shows that my tiltback speed is, say, 60 km/h...that isn't good from a legal standpoint. So even if I revert tiltback speed to 20km/h with EUC.W., the fact I can change that value directly from the wheel isn't good for me either. 

Maybe in real-world use I never get stopped or run into any issues, but it's worth thinking these things over carefully before impulsively buying a $3K+ wheel... 

EUCs  really to bring to light the disadvantages of living is such a highly regulated and bureaucratized continent. At this rate I'm going to end up undusting my US passport and moving to the States for EUC-related reasons. If that isn't passion (or obsession...), I don't know what is 😅😂

Edited July 12, 2020 by travsformation

[travsformation]

On 7/8/2020 at 7:56 AM, Marty Backe said:

I need to buy you a beer 

BTW, me too, @Seba! And nothing to do with my personal preference for one algorithm over the other, more about how much time you'll save in in answering questions about "strange/incorrect" battery readings in EUC World. Cheers!

[DjPanJan]

@travsformation I do it in monday midnight myewhells have one free MSP 2500W (i not preorder or wait). Now is on way to me. Myewhells tell my MSP have "newest" pedals with nikola size this mean no aditional prices for custom pedals propably.

S18 no interest because battery disqualified me out im too heavy/fat/big.

V11 is great i like it i dont belive inmotion for purchase first/second/earlier batches i think same story like V10/F this product need time next season spring be ideal purchase V11 my opinion. And still nobody know if overload =get out or beeps. Nobody know how suspension handle hard use cold weather etc is too early no opinions practice test by heavy riders and how many cost spare parts.

This is reason i go to "stupid/simple/classic style EUC" MSP temporary and sell and buy V11 later if time show V11 is reliable and keep v10F style (practical weatherproof and just ride).

I sell my V10F and keep my KS16X aka V10F replacement and MSP torqe use like cruiser(main wheel for fun not shoping etc..) 

Veteran sherman biggest disapointment for me i hope for something polished and here is 2 no go for me:

1. No safety mechanism to keep EUC in save zone aka not burn. Burn under 2 riders under 80kg my 140Kg(full gear and work tools) destroy this EUC in normal long incline in actual state.

2. Iron cage is too close to hit curbs and obstacles. (superclose when you use street tire) And i no want only "street" EUC.

3. I am shure veteran "fix" all this but we again talk about spring next year. 

I keep optimistic mood about EUC future. Just remeber KS16X and his journey good from first batch beter/improved year later.

[travsformation]

So....I've finally made up my mind. My riding habits and needs have evolved since I put the decision on hold, so waiting was clearly the right thing to do.

@meepmeepmayer...since you insisted so much on the subject, I thought I'd tag you so you can enjoy the "I told you so" moment...I just ordered a Sherman

I weighed the pros and cons, and it's the best possible fit for my needs. Now that I'm living the nomadic life, RANGE has become my top priority. I have the 16X and the 18XL in the RV with me, and although combined they provide a good 180-200 km if I'm conservative in my riding, I find myself yearning for more. As well as the ability to push my wheels above 40 km/h without obliterating the battery and halving my range (which I've been doing fairly often these days...there are so many wide, deserted, well taken care of trails here in Austria that it's hard to stay below 40 km/h). Why have to choose range or speed when I can have both? (Sherman's high-speed range will probably be more or less the same as the 16X/18XL's "eco riding" range)

Sure, there are some things on the Sherman that I'm not a big fan of (especially those bottom corners of the roll cage), but it's a compromise I'm willing to make in exchange for the added range in that compact (albeit dense) format. For touring and exploring, hitting a few paths here and there but no heavy off-roading, I think it's the perfect fit.

I reckon' the 16X will remain my dedicated off-road wheel for the time being. I was hoping the V11 might fit the bill, but I'm not too sure it would live up to my expectations (for that purpose; I think that overall, it's possibly the best all-rounder on the market ATM, and the most advanced, refined and best-quality wheel out there). And the S18...not an option I'm even considering. I love off-roading, but anything less than 1500 Wh doesn't cut it for me, and the build quality...I think it still has a long way to go before I'd be willing to spend my money on it (not trying to trigger any arguments here)

Anyway, back on topic...SHERMAN, YESSSS !!!!

Thought I'd share the news in the thread where the upgrade discussion started. The countdown has begun! Can't wait to receive it (although it'll be a couple of months...)

[fbhb]

24 minutes ago, travsformation said:

The countdown has begun! Can't wait to receive it (although it'll be a couple of months...)

Great news on the decision to get the Sherman!  I know exactly how you feel about the long wait, I'm in the very same boat too!

[meepmeepmayer]

Congratulations on the shiny new expensive wheel You can't beat the Sherman if you want range, and range certainly makes sense for you. And you're totally right that the 16X will be the offroad wheel - that Sherman is crazy heavy.

I think the Gotway RS HT will be the new offroad king soon (or maybe the EX with 50% more battery if the suspension doesn't easily get bent or it's plain too heavy).

[travsformation]

Thanks @meepmeepmayer!

Yeah, it really is the option that makes the most sense for me (since I didn't want something as bulky as a Monster Pro). 

I just found out about the existence of the GW RS a couple of days ago ! 😱

Looks like a sweet wheel! In addition to the even torquier motor and 1800Wh battery, looks like GW is finally starting to listen! Front and rear lights look like a step in the right direction (tons of visibility), kill switch is finally in a sensible location... 😂 

The EX looks promising too, but like you, I have a lot of doubts. With the Sherman being marketed as 20" vs the RS as 19", what size tire does the EX really have? A 3x18" tire (=19" in the EUC World) + knobby tire = 20"? Or is it actually a 20"?

And the suspension... Not too sure. Very exposed. Clipping? Delicate? Looking forward to seeing how it performs too. And weight... Honestly, for an offroad wheel, I think 1800Wh should probably be the max. I actually think the 1554Wh on the 16X are perfect, but with such powerful motors... 🙄

I figure the EX is probably more of a safer, more comfy street wheel than an off-roader, but that's just be speculating to no end 😅

Looks like 2021 is going to be another exciting year for EUCs (even if it's a complete mess in all other regards) 😂

We can be thankful to EUC MFs for keeping us busy. Then again, with every new release comes a new sh*tshow for us mods so... I might hang around for a while now and mysteriously disappear again come release time... 😂 

[Unventor]

There might be an outsider to the table too if we are talking spring 2021. Like I mentioned to you in PM. Little is known at this point in time. But... 

Inmotion V12 and other options from Inmotion, this is what Inmotion has hinted so far to come.:

A 16" and (properly later 20") non suspension wheel. They are working on battery swapping or/and external battery option. It will be biggest battery option so fra by Inmotion so 1500+ wh. And yet even faster that V11 (so 55kmh+). They have talked about AI bit first gen AI is not likely to see the full impact of what this can bring. 

Now my personally speculation is that the V11s go home mode/low batter will be something the wheel can set depending on your ride style and the speed you ride. 

I am sure this winter will bring a lot of stuff to discuss for what is installed for us in 2021. 

Now @travsformation it is sad you are not closer to me. I would have loved to hear your thoughts of my V11. 

[travsformation]

All these new releases might just help mitigate the fact that 2021 is probably going to be very much like 2020 in most regards 😂

But on a serious note, exciting stuff @Unventor! Thanks for sharing!  

11 hours ago, Unventor said:

Now @travsformation it is sad you are not closer to me. I would have loved to hear your thoughts of my V11. 

Ah, I'd love to take it for a spin! If it weren't because range is super important to me (not just longer rides but longer periods between charges), I think I would have bought the V11. 

I'd really love something with suspension as my next offroad wheel, I've been doing less off-roading lately because it wreaks havoc on my knees, but the S18 has failed to impress me. My main concerns with the V11 came from Marty burning it on OHH (not good for a dedicated off-roader...) and how Hsiang's faired in his crash. And the GW EX... Too big and heavy... 

As an all-rounder the V11 is as close to perfect as an EUC can get, but not as a dedicated off-roader, unfortunately. 😢

[Unventor]

As for @Marty Backe and the V11 demo unit I would write off that incident as we have seen others pushing their production wheels too with minimal issues. There have been another control board breakdown but @mrelwood said that it was not that strange it happened.

Now there are other issues with it but Inmotion are working to iron out these. As for range it is a decent range on the V11. Not the longest but pretty okey anyway. I for sure know what it means to have knee problems and going off road or on bad roads. At this is where the V11 really shines. 

But if you want more range you either have to wait or get a GWish wheel. Or so it seem right now. 

[travsformation]

6 hours ago, Unventor said:

As for @Marty Backe and the V11 demo unit I would write off that incident as we have seen others pushing their production wheels too with minimal issues. There have been another control board breakdown but @mrelwood said that it was not that strange it happened.

Now there are other issues with it but Inmotion are working to iron out these. As for range it is a decent range on the V11. Not the longest but pretty okey anyway. I for sure know what it means to have knee problems and going off road or on bad roads. At this is where the V11 really shines. 

But if you want more range you either have to wait or get a GWish wheel. Or so it seem right now. 

Thanks for the info!

For a dedicated off-road wheel I think 1500 Wh is fine. About the rest...I guess I'll have to wait and see how it fairs over time among the trail-addicts 

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

As for @Marty Backe and the V11 demo unit I would write off that incident

Me too, as it wasn’t even directly stress related. Since laying the wheel on its side has/had some special features, it may have put the firmware in a state it was not able to recover from gracefully.

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

There have been another control board breakdown but @mrelwood said that it was not that strange it happened.

I have actually since been able to shortly even overlean the wheel when jumping over obstacles in a steep off-road incline at very slow speeds. So I think it’s safe to say that the original board was faulty, as the new board is able to survive when asked for more power than it can provide.

About range. I started wondering how many 18650 cells the current shell could fit if I removed the actual plastic battery case... We’ll see if that’s something I’ll decide to examine further. Meanwhile, the range I get from the V11 is at least comparable to the range I got from a 1600Wh MSX.

 To a MSX rider the V11 is a complex machine, both hardware and software. We actually had to remote calibrate the wheel’s voltage readings. If one gets a short range on the V11, forest one should check is the voltage from the app after charging the wheel to full. If it shows less than 83.5V, some range is lost right there.