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travsformation

Thinking of upgrading from an 18XL to a GW, but which one? Nikola or MSP?

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1 hour ago, Ben Hatfield said:

I really wish I had known a lot of this before upgrading from my 18XL to the MSP (in my case the speed).  I was expecting more range, and was pretty surprised I got less range on the MSP.  I had never ridden a gotway wheel and the transition has been challenging from a comfort pov.  I've found some leverage padding on the MSP to be a necessity, while it was just super useful on the 18XL.  I also damaged my MSP on it's first crash, and had to get it repaired, where as my 18XL has taken larger hits and still runs flawlessly (though I admit that might just be the luck/bad luck).

I love a challenge, and will figure out my MSP - what it is, and how it will be best for me.  It's 100v power is super impressive.  It has enough torque for me, but it does overheat much faster than my 18XL on very steep inclines moving slow.

As far as range, I think the only un-modded gotway wheel that will have more range than the top KS wheels is the Monster 2400wh 84v

I'm really surprised by this. I found that the 1800wh MSP gets about the same range as my 1600wh XL. So yeah, on a wh/mile basis the MSP has a worse range, but that's compensated for by the bigger battery.

Have you quantified your statement or are you saying they don't have the same range based on a "gut feel"?

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3 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm really surprised by this. I found that the 1800wh MSP gets about the same range as my 1600wh XL. So yeah, on a wh/mile basis the MSP has a worse range, but that's compensated for by the bigger battery.

Have you quantified your statement or are you saying they don't have the same range based on a "gut feel"?

really? i wonder if its my ride style, or i just unconsciously ride GW wheels harder.. but theyve always had horrendous range for me, as i said with my 2100 wh nikola which pushing it as far as i could in the range test, only got 105 km... that was my first time ever being on it so i was by no means pushing it hard.. at least, i dont think i was haha

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1 hour ago, Rywokast said:

really? i wonder if its my ride style, or i just unconsciously ride GW wheels harder.. but theyve always had horrendous range for me, as i said with my 2100 wh nikola which pushing it as far as i could in the range test, only got 105 km... that was my first time ever being on it so i was by no means pushing it hard.. at least, i dont think i was haha

Wow. That's really poor range. I got a bit over 50-miles on my 1600wh Nikola and over 60-miles on my 1800wh MSP.

When I did the range test on the 100-volt 1845wh Nikola I got 64-miles (battery at literally 0%). So that value is consistent with what I get from my 1800wh MSP.

Could be a difference in weight.

But what I'm really focusing on is the difference between KingSong and Gotway. Of course KingSong doesn't make a wheel with more than 1600wh of battery capacity and I can get 60-miles out of those wheels.

Can't deny your experience. I'll continue to tell people that Gotway gets less than KingSong but only because KingSong allows the wheels to run at a lower voltage. This is from my experience. YMMV, as it does :D

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Rywokast said:

really? i wonder if its my ride style, or i just unconsciously ride GW wheels harder.. but theyve always had horrendous range for me, as i said with my 2100 wh nikola which pushing it as far as i could in the range test, only got 105 km... that was my first time ever being on it so i was by no means pushing it hard.. at least, i dont think i was haha

If averaging 15-20 mph - my MSP speed is a 45 mile wheel with the battery left below 20% (at rest) and a riding low of less than 10%.  I have tracked this several times.  In fact I did a ride averaging over 20mph (just over, but obviously a lot of my riding was much faster than that to maintain that average) and the range (20% battery at rest) dropped below 40 miles.  I'm guessing I could eek out a few more miles on all of these rides by riding careful at the battery below 20% - But there is no way I'd get my MSP speed to go 60 miles unless I averaged like 5-8mph - but that is an educated guess, fully admit.

I'm very surprised by this, and watched a lot of MSP torque range tests on YT (including yours).  Either this is specific to the MSP speed I have, or the MSP speed has less range than the torque, which again, surprises me.  I'd like other owners of the speed version to confirm or deny my findings.

I emailed eWheels about this, and Zen got back to me and said his 100v Nik+ is about the same as my speed when he rides it fast.

But yea, this isn't a guess - my MSP speed gets far less range than my 18XL when riding consistently around 20mph on either.

 

Edit: managed to quote the wrong post! - I was responding to Marty's comment

Edited by Ben Hatfield

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45 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Wow. That's really poor range. I got a bit over 50-miles on my 1600wh Nikola and over 60-miles on my 1800wh MSP.

When I did the range test on the 100-volt 1845wh Nikola I got 64-miles (battery at literally 0%). So that value is consistent with what I get from my 1800wh MSP.

Could be a difference in weight.

But what I'm really focusing on is the difference between KingSong and Gotway. Of course KingSong doesn't make a wheel with more than 1600wh of battery capacity and I can get 60-miles out of those wheels.

Can't deny your experience. I'll continue to tell people that Gotway gets less than KingSong but only because KingSong allows the wheels to run at a lower voltage. This is from my experience. YMMV, as it does :D

yea i know its very unusual i must unconsciously ride them harder haha.. its definitely not my weight of 120 lbs xD i reeeeeeeeeeeeeally wish kingsong would branch out more like gotway

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3 hours ago, Ben Hatfield said:

If averaging 15-20 mph - my MSP speed is a 45 mile wheel with the battery left below 20% (at rest) and a riding low of less than 10%.  I have tracked this several times.  In fact I did a ride averaging over 20mph (just over, but obviously a lot of my riding was much faster than that to maintain that average) and the range (20% battery at rest) dropped below 40 miles.  I'm guessing I could eek out a few more miles on all of these rides by riding careful at the battery below 20% - But there is no way I'd get my MSP speed to go 60 miles unless I averaged like 5-8mph - but that is an educated guess, fully admit.

I'm very surprised by this, and watched a lot of MSP torque range tests on YT (including yours).  Either this is specific to the MSP speed I have, or the MSP speed has less range than the torque, which again, surprises me.  I'd like other owners of the speed version to confirm or deny my findings.

I emailed eWheels about this, and Zen got back to me and said his 100v Nik+ is about the same as my speed when he rides it fast.

But yea, this isn't a guess - my MSP speed gets far less range than my 18XL when riding consistently around 20mph on either.

 

Edit: managed to quote the wrong post! - I was responding to Marty's comment

You're leaving a lot of miles on the table by stopping at 20%. Gotway wheels are fully rideable down to 15% and still not horrible until ~10%.

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2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

 

 

BTW, curious if you guys are using EUC World by chance. If you are, are you aware that by default it adds a 15% dummy-proof margin (my words) to the battery level. So if the app says you only have 20% remaining, in reality you have 35% remaining. You can turn off this dummy margin in the app.

All good information!  I generally ride the MSP until I hit single digits (battery %) while riding, which then reports around 20% at rest.  I did not know about the buffer in EUC world, which is the app I use.  What setting is that?

I'm away from home for the next week, but when I get back, I'll start some range tests with this new information, and see how that translates.

Appreciate the info from an experienced rider!

I'm still a pretty new rider:  4 months - around 1500 total miles on my three wheels, but only around 300 on the MSP speed, so I really have a long ways to go in terms of getting to know that wheel.  I have a long ways to go with EUC's, generally speaking

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11 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

BTW, curious if you guys are using EUC World by chance. If you are, are you aware that by default it adds a 15% dummy-proof margin (my words) to the battery level. So if the app says you only have 20% remaining, in reality you have 35% remaining. You can turn off this dummy margin in the app.

i have used it very occasionally though i generally do not use any apps when riding i just know approx how long i can ride for on each wheel.. but when doing the range test i have only gone by the official app.. i didnt know about this function on euc world... what is the purpose of that? lol 

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29 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

See the App Configurations screen, under the top "General settings" menu. Scroll to near the bottom and click on the "Battery level" menu. Select Standard instead of Optimized. Boom! You've just gained 15% battery capacity :thumbup:

I hope this means that your MSP no longer has horrible range and you can stop promulgating that negative image ;)

thanks again

I had no idea I was promoting or making widely known a MSP negative image - I thought I was giving my take on the wheel.  with this new information I will again put my wheel through it's paces

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38 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I've argued with @Seba quite a bit about this. He believes in adding an invisible safety buffer so people won't run out of juice by accident. I hate this. Sure, you can turn it off, but everybody I've seen who uses EUC World is fully unaware of this default behavior.

EUC World should not have this "feature" enabled by default. If nothing else that would same me endless time in fixing peoples EUC World configurations on long group rides when they start panicking that they are running out of power.

damn, thats weird as hell why that would be the default.... i mean, if youre using an app at all then how do you run out of juice by accident.. and if youre aware of this function existing, then its as if it doesnt exist because you will know that it is actually 15% higher.. so i suppose his thinking was that you wouldnt know this function existed, therefore you get a safety buffer... when in reality, you would just think something is wrong with the app or your wheel and first check another app lmao..... i remember like a week ago someone had this exact question on facebook about why the euc world app was saying something different and everyone was commenting on maybe the voltage in the app is set different try this try that blah blah blah no one to my knowledge knew of this function lmao, seems pretty useless if you ask me, in fact.. less than useless

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That is the reason why I am not using EUC World. I found that battery level is strange. Wheellog is all I need and battery level is very accurate.

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I understand the use, but when you start it up for the first time it should simply propose it as "opt in", and if you don't want it you just tap "no" and that's the end of that.

Wasn't aware of this either @Marty Backe.

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55 minutes ago, Rafal said:

That is the reason why I am not using EUC World. I found that battery level is strange.

As marty described this behaviour can be set to "standard".

55 minutes ago, Rafal said:

Wheellog is all I need and battery level is very accurate.

Imho some kind of showing "optimized" charge % already started with wheellog - but there it is not the default setting (?after some discussions?).

And for GW wheelog provides everything - if other extra functionality of euc world is not needed/wanted.

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On 6/27/2020 at 6:34 PM, travsformation said:

have found myself cruising quite often at 40-45 km/h on the 16X (extra caution/defensive riding being applied, don't fancy an overconfidence-induced faceplant). I'm not a speed demon by any means, and personally, find that 50 km/h is more than enough for an EUC, but a) I wouldn't mind having a bit more of a safety buffer when riding at 45 km/h

Oh, how often I have seen (and written) this line, just with different values! Funnily enough the values always seem to go up in the end, and sometimes quite rapidly as well (months).
Get a faster wheel, with a higher margin, and in 6 months you'll be writing the same thing, but adding 5-10 km/h on all counts. Of course you still won't be a speed demon, the speed demon is never oneself, but always the ones going faster! :P

Personally I'm still very happy with my 16X, probably because I'm a little further down the road still and my values are about 10 km/h lower than yours. I personally prefer off-roading, but can occasionally really enjoy a long smooth cruise as well, especially if my feet, thighs and calves are still sore from the off-roads. More range would be nice, as currently I'm kind of limited to around 180-200 km/day on long trips, because of charging breaks. It also means I have to plan to end up in a larger village/town every  60/70 km or so.

Currently the only two wheels that could tempt me to be added to the stable are the MSP and the Sherman.

MSP: because I feel it could do everything that my 16X can and possibly a bit more, but with a much higher safety margin and possibly slightly more range. Though it would be a lot less comfortable. The thought of doing 100+ km on those pedals makes me cringe, and I've only ridden one for a few minutes.
On a side note, if I could fork out a little extra, it could be ordered from EcoDrift with their waterproofing, and be my all weather wheel.

Sherman: Don't like the looks at all, but still prefer it to the Monster and it seems to be a lot more nimble. But the sole reason is of course the 3200 Wh battery! This would be my cruiser for long trips. If I wanted to visit my parents in the South of France, and hop over the Pyrenées to visit Barcelona, this would be the wheel I choose.

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5 hours ago, Ben Hatfield said:

thanks again

I had no idea I was promoting or making widely known a MSP negative image - I thought I was giving my take on the wheel.  with this new information I will again put my wheel through it's paces

Please note my emoticon in the post. I was only teasing you regarding the "negative image". I meant no harm.

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Wow, what a ton of extremely valuable info, thanks guys!!! :thumbup:

Am overloaded with work today but will try to find the time soon to write up a proper reply. In the meantime, thanks once again! :cheers:

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1 hour ago, travsformation said:

Wow, what a ton of extremely valuable info, thanks guys!!! :thumbup:

Am overloaded with work today but will try to find the time soon to write up a proper reply. In the meantime, thanks once again! :cheers:

indeed, lots of info :thumbup:

Although I promised myself not to buy an euc this year, just like you, I want an 18" with a bit more margin than my 16x.

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Again, absolute agreement. We are at the same result. If the suspension wheels hadn't appeared on the scene, I would have ordered the MSP a few days before the V11 release. Now I really want a wheel with suspension. Preferably a S18 with MSP performance.

Not because it's cool and new, but because 16X hardcore offroad (despite 25 psi) is the reason that I have had problems and pain in my ankles for 6 months that just won't go away. Pills and ointments without success and laser therapy for weeks. But since I can't let the 16X riding, the healing process is really dragging on. I ride at the weekend and go to the doctor during the week.

Since I doubt that there will be anything reasonably good with suspension this year, I'm back at the MSP, since Gotway seems to be planning to build even uglier wheels instead of something completely new with suspension. 

 Oh no, stop. I wanted a wheel with suspension. :rolleyes:

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