Thinking of upgrading from an 18XL to a GW, but which one? Nikola or MSP?

[travsformation]

So...I'm thinking of retiring my 18XL. It's a great wheel and an excellent all-rounder, but compared to the 16X, it isn't nearly as much fun to ride. That wheel is such a blast, and so versatile, nimble and balanced! The 18XL feels more like a tank in comparison (and the narrower tire is really noticeable now that I'ver gotten used to riding my 16X on a daily basis). 

Lately I'm gone on a couple several-day expeditions and ridden in environments that allowed me to maintain a much higher cruising speed than where I live, and have found myself cruising quite often at 40-45 km/h on the 16X (extra caution/defensive riding being applied, don't fancy an overconfidence-induced faceplant). I'm not a speed demon by any means, and personally, find that 50 km/h is more than enough for an EUC, but a) I wouldn't mind having a bit more of a safety buffer when riding at 45 km/h (maybe it's just in my mind, but I don't feel too comfortable riding the 16X near 50 km/h), and b) there have been a couple of times, on winding mountain roads, where I just let myself go and was enjoying the ride, not paying attention to my speed (and too entranced by the landscape to notice the soft tiltback), and all of a sudden, KS's infamous hard tiltback at 49 km/h (which I've set it to)...holy crap is that scary! It happened twice on the same ride, and aside from being scary as hell and almost causing me to fall, it's also a hell of a mood dampener!

I don't really see myself every riding above 55 km/h (or maybe that's what they all say...), but I'd like to have the peace of mind that if I ever go a few km/h above 50, (e.g. 52-53-54), the wheel isn't going to try to throw me off. With EUC World's alarms and my in-helmet BT headset I'm not too concerned about missing beeps/exceeding my personal speed preferences, I can just set a pre-alarm to a speed I feel comfortable at (let's say 50 km/h) and a higher-priority alarm at, say 55 km/h (or whatever I decide to set it to). 

So, after an IMV8, a KS18XL and a 16X, about a year and a half into riding, I'm finally considering jumping ship to GW...  

My ideal wheel would be a 16X (same nimble feel, weight distribution, etc.) but with a higher top speed, but to my knowledge no such wheel exists. I'm not after a larger-wheeled Monster, so I've pretty much narrowed my search down to a Nikola+ 1800Wh (for the range, not the speed) or the 2500W (torque-version) MSP (which should suffice for my needs---torque is more important than speed to me. 55 km/h max. isn't a problem for it is it?).  

Both of these tick most of the boxes, and the 3" tire is a must for me (now I understand you, @Marty Backe...it's so much more stable and comfortable...)

The 18" MSP seems like a logical replacement for the 18XL; and if I'm only going to have 2 wheels (I don't plan on collecting), an 18" and a 16" makes sense. On the other hand, the Nikola+ is an appealing wheel. If I'm after something nimble and 16X-like, I don't think either of these will come close, but I imagine the Nikola+ will probably be the more agile of the two, the MSP being more thank-like (but one torquey tank, at that!).  

I do a lot of off-roading, so torque is important to me. From what I've seen and read, the Nikola+ won't disappoint for off-roading (is it as good as the 16X? I recall SpeedyFeet stating that it was), but I imagine the MSP will blow it out of the water on the torque front (or not). 

I remember you mentioned, @Mike Sacristan , the differences between 18XL, MSX and Nikola some time ago, but I can't remember which thread it was and for the life of me can't find your comments.

In terms of durability, I'm not too sold on the MSP's though...those speakers...and GW's traditional MSX-style shell....not a big fan. I think it was EvX who mentioned that the Nikola is much more solidly built. Is that the case?

And about the batteries, with the whole Tesla battery debacle, they both use 21700 panasonic batteries don't they? Can I consider them safe in that domain?

Thoughts? Advice? Any feedback would be very welcome!

Thanks in advance guys!

Edited June 27, 2020 by travsformation

[Scottie]

I think I remember Wrong Way did a few videos that showed the 16X and the MSP were the hill climb champions. As far as durability, @Mike Sacristan has a 10,000 km MSX. Hopefully the MSP will inherit that durability.

EvX mentioned the Nikola had a very tough case structure in a recent video. And the Nik+ has a slightly better range than the MSP. Both have similar cruising speeds.

I don't have your experience, but I find the MSP with the CST tire almost as maneuverable as the 16X with the Choa Yang. I don't know if it is the pedal arrangement, or what it could be, but my MSP and 18XL have the same CST tire (except 2.5 vs 3.0 inch) and I find the MSP more maneuverable.

You have a difficult decision, unless you can narrow it down to an 18 inch wheel before a 16 inch. I don't use power pads to access the MSP torque since my riding is not so wild. But you may consider a set of pads to make that MSP torque more usable, if you go that way. 

[seage]

Reading this was almost like looking at my own story, haha. I'm also moving on from my 18XL, but im not selling it, due to the wheel im getting. The Monster V3. Still gonna need that 18Xl for days when im not with my riding friends, as im not walking that wheel by the seat all day long. I recently went through this with my dad, and he decided on the MSP Torque edition over the nikola because for him, its fast enough. He wants to be able to hit 50 without that being the end of days. But also wants that power for offroading. The shell is weaker, but from my riding at least, we've never really gone fast enough through the trees to damage the shells in a crash. Not to mention, the dirt/canvas is a bit more forgiving than the pavement, but this does depend on your local terrain. I know some peoples offroading is like rock gardens, haha. 

[travsformation]

48 minutes ago, Scottie said:

I think I remember Wrong Way did a few videos that showed the 16X and the MSP were the hill climb champions.

Yeah, that's for sure! For torque, I don't those two can be beaten!

48 minutes ago, Scottie said:

As far as durability, @Mike Sacristan has a 10,000 km MSX. Hopefully the MSP will inherit that durability.

I was thinking shell durability, which isn't on par with KS, but to hell with it, shells can be replaced 

49 minutes ago, Scottie said:

EvX mentioned the Nikola had a very tough case structure in a recent video. And the Nik+ has a slightly better range than the MSP. Both have similar cruising speeds.

OK, it was EvX, yeah. And range-wise...they're both pretty decent, although the more, the better!

50 minutes ago, Scottie said:

I don't have your experience, but I find the MSP with the CST tire almost as maneuverable as the 16X with the Choa Yang. I don't know if it is the pedal arrangement, or what it could be, but my MSP and 18XL have the same CST tire (except 2.5 vs 3.0 inch) and I find the MSP more maneuverable.

You have a difficult decision, unless you can narrow it down to an 18 inch wheel before a 16 inch. I don't use power pads to access the MSP torque since my riding is not so wild. But you may consider a set of pads to make that MSP torque more usable, if you go that way. 

It is a difficult decision indeed! MSP almost as maneuverable as the 16X, wow! I wouldn't have expected that. And more than the 18XL I can understand, that wider tire makes a lot of difference in terms of stability / how permissive it is.

Yeah, if I get the MSP I'll definitely be putting pads on it! 

[RockyTop]

 If you like the 16X that much better than the XL, you might not like the MSX.  In the end I am afraid that you will just wish your 16x was faster.  If you do switch to GotWay you might need to change your riding style to take advantage of what GotWay has to offer.  If you are up for the challenge  

[travsformation]

14 minutes ago, seage said:

Reading this was almost like looking at my own story, haha. I'm also moving on from my 18XL, but im not selling it, due to the wheel im getting. The Monster V3. Still gonna need that 18Xl for days when im not with my riding friends, as im not walking that wheel by the seat all day long. I recently went through this with my dad, and he decided on the MSP Torque edition over the nikola because for him, its fast enough. He wants to be able to hit 50 without that being the end of days. But also wants that power for offroading. The shell is weaker, but from my riding at least, we've never really gone fast enough through the trees to damage the shells in a crash. Not to mention, the dirt/canvas is a bit more forgiving than the pavement, but this does depend on your local terrain. I know some peoples offroading is like rock gardens, haha. 

There comes a time...indeed there comes a time...

Sounds like we're upgrading for similar reasons. I do a lot of off-roading too (mixed bag, but there are some rock gardens in the package), so torque an shell durability are top priorities (I don't plan on putting and EUC bodyguard on my GW so I can put power pads on it). Looks like the MSP gains the edge in the torque dept. and the Nikola in the shell durability one. Tough choice...

My other main concern is agility/maneuverability. I'm sure I can adapt to anything, but the more nimble, the better. It sounds like the Nikola should be pretty nimble, but there's something I'm not too convinced about in terms of the riding stance, 'cause of the shape of the shell (I haven't tried it though). A shame there are no local riders who own either one of these wheels...

There's no way I'd get rid of my 18XL if I didn't have the 16X...I can't conceive not having a backup wheel these days! 

So, a Monster V3 for you and an MSP for your dad? Nice, and congrats! When do you receive it? 

P.S. Looking forward to your next videos! This dual upgrade makes for a great story!

[mrelwood]

My 84V MSX has 12000km on it, and if  the suspension wheels weren’t invented yet, I would have no interest in replacing/retiring it. Yes the shell covers have cracked a bit, and the IP rating is probably zero, but so have been the related issues.

Nikola is a big boy. The shell reaches much higher than on the MSX and is also very wide at the top, which is why the MSX is definitely more nimble and maneuverable than the Nikola. I haven’t ridden on the 16X enough to compare it though. Just that from these two, Nikola and MSX, the MSX/MSP definitely wins.

 The Nikola would of course climb up hills with less effort, but comparing the 16X without pads and the MSX with pads, I was much more capable on steep inclines on the MSX than on the 16X. If you haven’t had pads on the 16X, a padded MSP will likely match the 16X on an incline and then some.

Edit: Comparing wheels for these two aspects only leaves way to much out though. While the power of the MSP May be mesmerizing, if you can’t manage the pedal angle, it’s no use to you. Until you file it down of course.

Edited June 27, 2020 by mrelwood

[travsformation]

10 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

 If you like the 16X that much better than the XL, you might not like the MSX.  In the end I am afraid that you will just wish your 16x was faster.  If you do switch to GotWay you might need to change your riding style to take advantage of what GotWay has to offer.  If you are up for the challenge  

They're very different wheels and I love both of them for what they are, but:

- Now that I do 90% of my riding on the 16X, when I jump on the 18XL, I really notice the narrower tire. Despite feeling safer at speed, from a cutout perspective, on the 18XL, it just doesn't feel as stable at speed as the 16X because of that thinner tire. I'm getting spoiled...

- While not as nimble, I love how the 18XL just powers over obstacles when off-roading. The appeal of the 2500W MSP is similar---a tank (not Monster/steamroller level though)---, but one with a higher top speed/safety margin and wider tire. I can live with it not being as maneuverable as the 16X, I like having two different wheels that respond different. I think it's down to the fact that the 16X ticks all the right boxes for the use I intend to give it, but the 18XL doesn't. When I grab the 18XL, it's more for asphalt, higher-speed cruising, but it falls slightly short in that department, and I think the MSP would fit the bill better. Or the Nikola. Too bad I can't try them out...

About changing my riding style, I'm more than happy to adapt it, I love a challenge! (although I do think I'll be putting the Nikola pedals on the MSP if I buy it)

[travsformation]

4 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

My 84V MSX has 12000km on it, and if  the suspension wheels weren’t invented yet, I would have no interest in replacing/retiring it. Yes the shell has cracked a bit, and the IP rating is probably zero, but so have been the related issues.

Yeah, it feels odd contemplating an MSP or a Nikola when the V11 and the S18 are out, but neither of them fit the bill. An S18XL would be closer to what I'm after, but more as a replacement for the 16X (which I consider my slow wheel). An MSP with suspension would be perfect, but I don't plan on waiting that long 

6 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Nikola is a big boy. The shell reaches much higher than on the MSX and is also very wide at the top, which is why the MSX is definitely more nimble and maneuverable than the Nikola. I haven’t ridden on the 16X enough to compare it though. Just that from these two, Nikola and MSX, the MSX/MSP definitely wins.

Thanks, that's a vital piece of info I was missing! Looks like the MSP is gaining the edge here... 

7 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

The Nikola would of course climb up hills with less effort, but comparing the 16X without pads and the MSX with pads, I was much more capable on steep inclines on the MSX than on the 16X. If you haven’t had pads on the 16X, a padded MSP will likely match the 16X on an incline and then some.

I use the 16X without pads, so a padded MSP is probably going to feel like a beast to me 

 

[mrelwood]

9 minutes ago, travsformation said:

although I do think I'll be putting the Nikola pedals on the MSP if I buy it)

Just remember that stock Nikola pedals are unridably steep on the MSP. Only Ewheels sells the MSP with modified Nikola pedals, that should have a very comfortable angle.

 Edit: Oh yeah, about the MSP though... Buy earplugs as well. The fan is very very loud!

Edited June 27, 2020 by mrelwood

[travsformation]

Just now, mrelwood said:

Just remember that stock Nikola pedals are unridably steep on the MSP. Only Ewheels sells the MSP with modified Nikola pedals, that should have a very comfortable angle.

Thanks!

[Mike Sacristan]

The struggle is real!

The Nik+ and the MSP use LG M50T 21700 cells in a 24s4p configuration. They both come with 3A chargers.

The Nikola is what the 16X is not and very little of what the 16X is.
I have done plenty of soft tilt-back riding at 50kmh on the 16X. I hate hard tilt-back and once I almost crashed at 51 kmh.
I set the 3rd alarm on the 16X to 45 kmh so that I know when to cool it.
I used to wish for a faster 16X and then I found out that it wasn't that simple. Sure it would work on a smooth road... but man that wheel jumps and skips.

The MSP/MSP does not jump and skip because of the tyre size. The Nik+ jumps and skips but not as much as the 16X.

So let's look at the 16X.
Best case you can ride soft tilt-back at 50 kmh. Soft tilt-back is 80% power and if you press you will get a 88% 4 beep alarm and maybe hard tilt-back. But it feels like walking a tightrope and there is no room for error.
It is wonderfully zippy. It is wonderfully agile.  No other wheel feels like it. The CYT has a rather narrow feel to it. It is a beast off-road and riding the MSX off-road just makes me sad because it is a big clumsy wheel and when it shifts to the side it takes my legs with it because of the dihedral + pads. In these situations the 16X would just flop between my legs.

The Nikola. Is the 16X fat cousin. A cross between MSX and 16X. A much more planted feel. Tuned like a motorcycle.
You unpack your Nikola... get on and go. The stance is the same as on the 16X. The width is the same. The pedals are the same size with the 16X pedals being a bit wider. More dihedral on the Nik. The outer edge of the Nik pedal is higher than the 16X but lower at the base. The Nik+ pads are twice as thick as they should be. If placed at the very top of the wheel they are handy to have and better than nothing. It is nice to have them there when we are riding above 50 kmh. Not a good speed for the wheel to flop between our legs or skip and bounce.

The MSP. The dihedral will kill you. Or needs to be adjusted.  Or maybe you will love it. It has plenty of power and grunt. It is faster than the MSX. The pre-production model was slower than the final version. One of our young fearless riders was beeping at 59.7 kmh though and that is his personal best. No included mudguard. Optional seat.

100% battery 5 beeps
Nikola 64 kmh - MSP ~58 kmh 
Low battery 5 beeps
Nikola ~51 kmh - MSP ~48 kmh (I just started beeping the other day at 62 kmh and it was easy to hear, I didn't push farther than 62.5 kmh)
Safe ride at high speed
Nikola has the bigger buffer but MSP is more forgiving because of tyre size
Pedal Height - MSP wins
Comfort - Nikola wins
Zippy feel - Nikola wins
Steamrolling stuff off-road or not - MSP wins
Technical off-road - both have pros and cons
Skate parks - either one
Durable shell - Nikola
Mudguard - overspray from both Nik and MSP
Decorative lights and looks - Nikola
Headlights - MSP are brighter but too bright
Noisy wheel - Shut up MSP shut up! The fan just won't let up. But keeps the MSP cooler than the Nik.
Speakers - the same new ones
Water resistance - I have read one report from a MSP rider getting water stuck in his wheel.

The Nik and the 16X can coexist. They feel completely different.
I have done maybe 3km total on Monika's MSP though. But too many on the MSX.

Also regarding power pads and covers. You can put pads under the rollnz covers.
Some people have also secured their covers to the shell with velcro and have pads outside the covers.

Let me know if you have any questions, need measurements, comparisons, etc.

Also.. is delivery time an issue? Price?

 

 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

@travsformation 

100% exactly the same problem I have. It' s like I wrote it. But after 6 months of ankle problems due to the constant extreme off-road riding, the question of MSP or Nik+ has been settled. I need a wheel with suspension, otherwise my ankles will never heal.
Unfortunately neither the S18 nor the V11 fulfils my wishes. 
Both too slow, one too ugly, the other a battery that is much too small, one suspension that doesn't suit me, the other one inferior quality. 

For me, the only hope that Gotway will bring out an ugly, but a fast wheel with suspension and bearable quality. 

Neither KS nor IM will fulfill my wish for more speed. A V11 with 55km/h for the first 10 minutes won't change anything. 
 

[Scottie]

Mike covered a lot of ground in the comparison! I like the options he made about the cover and the pads ... pads under the cover or on top of the cover.

If you get the Nikola pedals on the MSP, they are very comfortable after they are filed down to a more moderate angle. eWheels in the USA had the Nik pedals installed on the MSP pre-milled / filed down a bit. I rode it like that for a while to give them a chance, but finally filed them down further. Now they are completely comfortable. Or, as Mike says, you may like them as is.

You mentioned maneuverability being important. As far a MSP maneuverability, I remembered someone else from another thread that has the same opinion of the MSP as myself. NunoF and I are on the same page! Except he is referring to the high speed instead of the high torque model ... insignificant difference I believe.  

On 6/3/2020 at 9:52 PM, NunoF said:

After the wonderful experience on the 16X I was skeptical about finding another wheel that I would like better, the MSP high speed did it.

 

Lift wheel cut-off at 100% battery is 61 mph (98 km/h)

The wheel is very maneuverable, doesn’t feel any less maneuverable than the 16X despite the bigger tire size and the heavier weight ( bad assumption made in the original post, it’s only 0.5 Lbs heavier than the  16X, thank you to @EMA who asked me to weigh the wheel!)

 

[seage]

3 hours ago, travsformation said:

Sounds like we're upgrading for similar reasons. I do a lot of off-roading too (mixed bag, but there are some rock gardens in the package), so torque an shell durability are top priorities (I don't plan on putting and EUC bodyguard on my GW so I can put power pads on it). Looks like the MSP gains the edge in the torque dept. and the Nikola in the shell durability one. Tough choice...

A friend of mine did a whole custom thing to his shell to water seal it but also basically made an outer shell so that he can drop it at speed and it doesnt fall apart. Those new sidepads everyones using and bumpers seem to be really helping peoples wheels stay in one piece during crashes so for sure look into that. I will be. 

 

3 hours ago, travsformation said:

My other main concern is agility/maneuverability. I'm sure I can adapt to anything, but the more nimble, the better. It sounds like the Nikola should be pretty nimble, but there's something I'm not too convinced about in terms of the riding stance, 'cause of the shape of the shell (I haven't tried it though). A shame there are no local riders who own either one of these wheels...

I'll be the first person in the GTA (thats part of the riding community) to own the monster. HAvent even seen one before, so this'll be fun. But yah, no matter what you'll be able to get what you pick to work. Thats what makes it tough. All the options are great in their own way, and theres are some drawbacks to each too, hah. 

3 hours ago, travsformation said:

So, a Monster V3 for you and an MSP for your dad? Nice, and congrats! When do you receive it? 

P.S. Looking forward to your next videos! This dual upgrade makes for a great story!

Yep! Thank you! Well, my wheels about 4 weeks out or something. It was ordered straight from gotway, so I have to wait a while. Trying not to think about it so I can function, lmao. And my dad got lucky! My seller had 1 more MSP left, so hes shipping it either today or tomorrow so that should be here soon! Super excited for my dad, finally getting his first wheel. And thank you! I got sick so I had to stop, but i'm back now, just gathering footage and whatnot! 

[Rywokast]

if you want range not speed you will be sorely disappointed.. my nikola 2100 wh got the same range as my ks18xl lol... you might look at the nikola 2600 wh or some larger msx variant but of course none of them are going to feel like the 16x which is light in comparison to any of those... either get a somewhat similar GW wheel and dont expect to get amazing range, or accept that youre going to have to get something heavier... i would probably say the nikola 2100 is a good balance of speed, weight, maneuverability, and size.. it should get slightly more range than the 16X at equal speeds but also be capable of going much faster safely.. as for the feel of the wheel that comes down hugely to the tire thats on it which for almost every single euc has been more than one so youll get varying opinions on different wheels that can come from the tire being used.... specs dont lie though and you can always swap the tire.... all that being said even though the nikola is the obvious closest comparison i would probably recommend an msp over it... it has a lower centre of gravity and is amazingly actually smaller than the nikola but with that huge tire so it can eat up road bumps... it used to be the obviously more sluggish and less maneuverable of the two, but i think the new MSP with a CYT H-666 tire on it would be perfect for you... and if you want more range there are many variations of the msx out of china with larger battery options... just keep in mind that you would be lucky to even get similar range with an 1800 wh msx/msp as you would with the 1554 wh 18xl/16x so if you want more range youre going to have to get more than 1800 wh.. ESPECIALLY if you plan to go higher speeds

edit: also be aware, that in my humble opinion.. NO gotway wheel is comfortable out of the box, and that goes double for someone who hasnt ridden one before... im pretty sure gotway designs these wheels 100% purely for function and ease and takes no consideration whatsoever to comfort, naturally every body is different and different people will have pressure points in different areas, do not expect to take it out of the box and find it comfortable or familiar like a KS or IM wheel, you will likely want to add/remove some padding somewhere and take a while to get used to how it feels physically before you can start to compare it to your KS wheels but once you get used to it it shouldnt be a bother.. but i have pretty much found with every GW wheel that when i initially ride it, it is similar to when i first learned to ride euc.. whereas every KS and IM wheel have been comfortable and familiar right out of the box

Edited June 27, 2020 by Rywokast

[Marty Backe]

After reading this I'm sensing that you're leaning towards more off-roading and really want the torque. I must say, I don't think you'd be disappointed with the MSP. The MSP ships with the same tire that's on the Nikola which I think gives it a nicer ride vs my MSX. It's a very fun wheel to ride in the urban environment but is the absolute king for off-road use.

I don't think you're a crazy rider so the odds of you crashing the MSP in a big way are low (I haven't crashed mine yet). Maybe if you take the MSP and Nikola and send them tumbling in the air, the Nikola will fair better. Otherwise, I don't think the MSP is prone to breaking into pieces when you drop it.

So if you're OK losing the light show and aesthetics of the Nikola, I now suggest that you give the MSP serious consideration. 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Marty Backe

[Ben Hatfield]

20 hours ago, Rywokast said:

if you want range not speed you will be sorely disappointed.. my nikola 2100 wh got the same range as my ks18xl lol... you might look at the nikola 2600 wh or some larger msx variant but of course none of them are going to feel like the 16x which is light in comparison to any of those... either get a somewhat similar GW wheel and dont expect to get amazing range, or accept that youre going to have to get something heavier... i would probably say the nikola 2100 is a good balance of speed, weight, maneuverability, and size.. it should get slightly more range than the 16X at equal speeds but also be capable of going much faster safely.. as for the feel of the wheel that comes down hugely to the tire thats on it which for almost every single euc has been more than one so youll get varying opinions on different wheels that can come from the tire being used.... specs dont lie though and you can always swap the tire.... all that being said even though the nikola is the obvious closest comparison i would probably recommend an msp over it... it has a lower centre of gravity and is amazingly actually smaller than the nikola but with that huge tire so it can eat up road bumps... it used to be the obviously more sluggish and less maneuverable of the two, but i think the new MSP with a CYT H-666 tire on it would be perfect for you... and if you want more range there are many variations of the msx out of china with larger battery options... just keep in mind that you would be lucky to even get similar range with an 1800 wh msx/msp as you would with the 1554 wh 18xl/16x so if you want more range youre going to have to get more than 1800 wh.. ESPECIALLY if you plan to go higher speeds

edit: also be aware, that in my humble opinion.. NO gotway wheel is comfortable out of the box, and that goes double for someone who hasnt ridden one before... im pretty sure gotway designs these wheels 100% purely for function and ease and takes no consideration whatsoever to comfort, naturally every body is different and different people will have pressure points in different areas, do not expect to take it out of the box and find it comfortable or familiar like a KS or IM wheel, you will likely want to add/remove some padding somewhere and take a while to get used to how it feels physically before you can start to compare it to your KS wheels but once you get used to it it shouldnt be a bother.. but i have pretty much found with every GW wheel that when i initially ride it, it is similar to when i first learned to ride euc.. whereas every KS and IM wheel have been comfortable and familiar right out of the box

I really wish I had known a lot of this before upgrading from my 18XL to the MSP (in my case the speed).  I was expecting more range, and was pretty surprised I got less range on the MSP.  I had never ridden a gotway wheel and the transition has been challenging from a comfort pov.  I've found some leverage padding on the MSP to be a necessity, while it was just super useful on the 18XL.  I also damaged my MSP on it's first crash, and had to get it repaired, where as my 18XL has taken larger hits and still runs flawlessly (though I admit that might just be the luck/bad luck).

I love a challenge, and will figure out my MSP - what it is, and how it will be best for me.  It's 100v power is super impressive.  It has enough torque for me, but it does overheat much faster than my 18XL on very steep inclines moving slow.

As far as range, I think the only un-modded gotway wheel that will have more range than the top KS wheels is the Monster 2400wh 84v

[AtlasP]

20 hours ago, Rywokast said:

edit: also be aware, that in my humble opinion.. NO gotway wheel is comfortable out of the box, and that goes double for someone who hasnt ridden one before... im pretty sure gotway designs these wheels 100% purely for function and ease and takes no consideration whatsoever to comfort, naturally every body is different and different people will have pressure points in different areas, do not expect to take it out of the box and find it comfortable or familiar like a KS or IM wheel, you will likely want to add/remove some padding somewhere and take a while to get used to how it feels physically before you can start to compare it to your KS wheels but once you get used to it it shouldnt be a bother.. but i have pretty much found with every GW wheel that when i initially ride it, it is similar to when i first learned to ride euc.. whereas every KS and IM wheel have been comfortable and familiar right out of the box

 

This is spot on, 100%.

[RockyTop]

While I agree with most of the complaints about GotWay, riding anything else is like riding a toy. My larger size might contribute to that. I tend to overpower the other wheels. 

Also, I am surprised that I have not found anyone other than myself that actually prefers the MSX trolley handle. I can maneuver the wheel with a simple flick of the wrist. It is like riding the wheel without being on it.  It takes more effort to maneuver the centered trolley handles. 

[Rywokast]

8 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

While I agree with most of the complaints about GotWay, riding anything else is like riding a toy. My larger size might contribute to that. I tend to overpower the other wheels. 

Also, I am surprised that I have not found anyone other than myself that actually prefers the MSX trolley handle. I can maneuver the wheel with a simple flick of the wrist. It is like riding the wheel without being on it.  It takes more effort to maneuver the centered trolley handles. 

i think youve had too much moonshine  i can steer any ks wheel around a store with one finger... totally effortlessly and without ever any risk of it suddenly flailing around and smashing into something, i can also lean it up against an object or myself without any risk of it falling.. very useful when shopping, msx trolley i have to consciously keep a firm grip and steer it to keep it upright. i guess youre technically right in that it does take more "effort" to maneuver centred trolleys, in the way that you cant have them accidentally fly off in any direction at mach 10, i suppose someone could learn to control this and take advantage of it haha but personally i would not want to take any gw wheel besides the tesla or mcm5 into a store, would not trust it.... but you say anything else is like riding a toy due to your large size, well im 5'9 120 lbs so that might very well explain it lmao

[RockyTop]

28 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

i think youve had too much moonshine  i can steer any ks wheel around a store with one finger... totally effortlessly and without ever any risk of it suddenly flailing around and smashing into something, i can also lean it up against an object or myself without any risk of it falling.. very useful when shopping, msx trolley i have to consciously keep a firm grip and steer it to keep it upright. i guess youre technically right in that it does take more "effort" to maneuver centred trolleys, in the way that you cant have them accidentally fly off in any direction at mach 10, i suppose someone could learn to control this and take advantage of it haha but personally i would not want to take any gw wheel besides the tesla or mcm5 into a store, would not trust it.... but you say anything else is like riding a toy due to your large size, well im 5'9 120 lbs so that might very well explain it lmao

That is what everyone says. Another thing that I like better about the rear trolley is that I trolley with the wheel in front  and slightly to the side rather than beside me. This way it takes up less space and I am not tripping over it.  I have more freedom of movement. 

EEEEEEEEveryyone agree with you though. 

[Rywokast]

Just now, RockyTop said:

That is what everyone says. Another thing that I like better about the rear trolley is that I trolley with the wheel in front  and slightly to the side rather than beside me. This way it takes up less space and I am not tripping over it.  I have more freedom of movement. 

EEEEEEEEveryyone agree with you though. 

nice, well thats great it works so well for you.. consider yourself lucky, and the rest of us disadvantaged haha, i wish i could control it as easily

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, RockyTop said:

While I agree with most of the complaints about GotWay, riding anything else is like riding a toy. My larger size might contribute to that. I tend to overpower the other wheels. 

Also, I am surprised that I have not found anyone other than myself that actually prefers the MSX trolley handle. I can maneuver the wheel with a simple flick of the wrist. It is like riding the wheel without being on it.  It takes more effort to maneuver the centered trolley handles. 

Because you're weird

[RockyTop]

8 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Because you're weird

My teachers called me special.