Popular Post Bertrand One Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 6 hours ago, Marty Backe said: The NYC crowd is very different from every other EUC group that I see. Basically, a bunch of 20-year guys or guys acting like 20-year old's, who are totally hyped up about speed, speed, and more speed. They think they are the center of the EUC universe and routinely smear all other EUC riders, as zombie riders, slow, boring, etc. They couldn't care less about what anyone in this forum thinks or anyone outside of NYC. Of course I'm generalizing and there are NYC riders in this forum who are not like that. I'm just so happy that I get to ride with a bunch of guys in peace-loving California where the testosterone is a couple notches lower We're not perfect and I'm sure we have our reckless moments, but it's at a totally different level compared to NYC. I've seen people complain about them here, in Facebook, and other places. It's wasted energy in my opinion. See first paragraph above That all being said, I don't think anything they do there will result in EUC's becoming illegal anywhere else. It's all too local and niche. I'm a total outsider here, and my view largely parallels Marty's. The NYC guys just come across in a completely different way than the other channels I watch. Also, I feel like that kind of crazy riding in close proximity to families and children would get the riders an absolute belting just about anywhere here in Australia. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Wheeler Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 I really agree, already cars hate bicycles and skaters, so its not in our best interest to act like dweeebs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mike_bike_kite Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 I agree with almost everything said about dangerous riding and, personally, I'd also add in playing loud music in public areas. Really though, you need to put this feedback into the youtube comments so people at least understand that this style of behaviour is seen as wrong by other EUC riders. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RagingGrandpa Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 I think this is motivation to get into the hobby NOW, ride as much as you can NOW. We're in the EUC golden years. Will we be legal next year? Nobody knows. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 45 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said: I think this is motivation to get into the hobby NOW, ride as much as you can NOW. We're in the EUC golden years. Will we be legal next year? Nobody knows. I know for the United States. We'll be legal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hsiang Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 9 hours ago, Marty Backe said: The NYC crowd is very different from every other EUC group that I see. Basically, a bunch of 20-year guys or guys acting like 20-year old's, who are totally hyped up about speed, speed, and more speed. They think they are the center of the EUC universe and routinely smear all other EUC riders, as zombie riders, slow, boring, etc. They couldn't care less about what anyone in this forum thinks or anyone outside of NYC. Of course I'm generalizing and there are NYC riders in this forum who are not like that. I'm just so happy that I get to ride with a bunch of guys in peace-loving California where the testosterone is a couple notches lower We're not perfect and I'm sure we have our reckless moments, but it's at a totally different level compared to NYC. I've seen people complain about them here, in Facebook, and other places. It's wasted energy in my opinion. See first paragraph above That all being said, I don't think anything they do there will result in EUC's becoming illegal anywhere else. It's all too local and niche. As the guy who picked the demo location; looking back I agree that it was a mistake, the level of excitement and the performance of this wheel both exceeded expectation. We have conducted demo at this same location with prior Gotway wheels and there had never been issues before but the Sherman was just something else. Lesson learned, we’ll do this somewhere else and I can think of a few spots where there won’t be anyone we’ll endanger (other than our selves). I do want to say that the riding culture in NYC is completely different than anywhere else and the expectation from pedestrian is also different, I have a clip somewhere of an old lady with an walker crossing a 5 lane avenue against a red lights with taxis wizzing by. No one waits for a red and for the most part ppl watch where they are going and expects that no one else will follow the rules either. NYC had always been this way and if you watch any of the fixies bike messenger videos in NYC you’ll see the exact same behavior as many of the same people are riding EUC now. I also noticed a different attitude in South East Asia like Taiwan and Vietnam where people have no issues mixing pedestrians and significantly faster scooters, parents keep their kids close and wouldn’t be bothered by a scooter shooting past doing 30mph mere 2-3 feet away. Now a higher traffic fatality rate is recorded in Vietnam and I am not defending the behavior presented in those clips, as I also feel that things went a little bit out of hand. But it does hurt a bit when I see someone posting a photo of a college kid with a nasty label on it, we all do stupid things when we’re young and as an adult if I was caught doing the same thing then that treatment is fair, but in this case I think its harsh. I also think that the NYC myth is a good bit magnified as the web tend to leans towards sensationalism, few people watch the hundreds of clips where we are just riding safely but boy do they pay attention when there’s a crash, something dicey or what not. For the most part we do pay attention, any risky behaviors are pointed out and people whom go gearless pestered so we’re not quite the Mad Max biker gang people think we are either. Finally I totally agree with Marty that I am very skeptical of any suggestion that laws will be made because of these clips, we pay attention because we love EUCs but statistically they are so small compared to the thousands of other traffic death that it wouldn’t register at all. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Governments could simply forbid all safety equipment on all vehicles, and thereby spread the risk of injury equally among road users. Knee and elbow padding, helmets, airbags, safety glass, abrasion resistant jackets, crumple zones, abs, safety belts, all have the effect increasing crashing and deaths because users feel safer. I guarantee you people ride safer if they know they will get hurt from crashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsiang Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 11 minutes ago, LanghamP said: Governments could simply forbid all safety equipment on all vehicles, and thereby spread the risk of injury equally among road users. Knee and elbow padding, helmets, airbags, safety glass, abrasion resistant jackets, crumple zones, abs, safety belts, all have the effect increasing crashing and deaths because users feel safer. I guarantee you people ride safer if they know they will get hurt from crashes. I actually want to make a video about this! Safety gear are like an airbag on a car, it’ll help reduce injury but the safest thing to do is to not get into an accident if the first place and like you said people get complacent and take more risk when they felt that they are protected. I took MSF when I learned how to ride a bike and many of the defensive driving lessons applies equally to what we do. The safest thing is really to wear all the protection but ride as if you were buck naked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fryman Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 11 hours ago, Marty Backe said: That all being said, I don't think anything they do there will result in EUC's becoming illegal anywhere else. It's all too local and niche I'm not so sure about that. I have seen city leaders use examples from other city's to justify passing new legislation. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, fryman said: I'm not so sure about that. I have seen city leaders use examples from other city's to justify passing new legislation. But not about something so niche as EUC's. For example, the EScooter phenomenon from 2019 was so widespread throughout the country that you'd have to have been in a coma not to be aware of it all. So all kinds of bans were being placed on them based on other cities experiences. You'll still get a dumb, deer in the headlights look, if you mention Electric Unicycles to most people. Edited June 26, 2020 by Marty Backe 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hsiang Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 9 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: But not about something so niche as EUC's. For example, the EScooter phenomenon from 2019 was so widespread throughout the country that you'd have to have been in a coma not to be aware of it all. So all kinds of bans were being placed on them based on other cities experiences. You'll still get a dumb, dear in the headlights look, if you mention Electric Unicycles to most people. Not to mention the fact that I think the media will have a field day; can you imagine the head line “Governor so and so pass law to limit speed of unicycle, circus bears around the country alarm by stupid laws” here in NYC the threshold for prosecuting traffic death are so high that very few drivers ever get convicted for killing pedestrians or bicyclist. If the there aren’t enough political will to deal with that I don’t see how anyone would care about a handful of EUC accidents. I am not familiar with jurisdiction elsewhere but I highly doubt any ban would be created nor enforced (jaywalking is also technically illegal) here in NYC. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shellac Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Hsiang said: Not to mention the fact that I think the media will have a field day; can you imagine the head line “Governor so and so pass law to limit speed of unicycle, circus bears around the country alarm by stupid laws” here in NYC the threshold for prosecuting traffic death are so high that very few drivers ever get convicted for killing pedestrians or bicyclist. If the there aren’t enough political will to deal with that I don’t see how anyone would care about a handful of EUC accidents. I am not familiar with jurisdiction elsewhere but I highly doubt any ban would be created nor enforced (jaywalking is also technically illegal) here in NYC. In general I would agree, with the exception of a high profile case that involves a kid and a serious injury. Something that was maybe caught on video and went viral. Then you could see EUCs get the lawn darts treatment. Hopefully we can minimize the chances of that kind of thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryman Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 13 minutes ago, Hsiang said: Not to mention the fact that I think the media will have a field day; can you imagine the head line “Governor so and so pass law to limit speed of unicycle, circus bears around the country alarm by stupid laws” here in NYC the threshold for prosecuting traffic death are so high that very few drivers ever get convicted for killing pedestrians or bicyclist. If the there aren’t enough political will to deal with that I don’t see how anyone would care about a handful of EUC accidents. I am not familiar with jurisdiction elsewhere but I highly doubt any ban would be created nor enforced (jaywalking is also technically illegal) here in NYC. It sounds like, you are not putting much value on someone else's life or quality of life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gasmantle Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 53 minutes ago, Hsiang said: Not to mention the fact that I think the media will have a field day; can you imagine the head line “Governor so and so pass law to limit speed of unicycle, circus bears around the country alarm by stupid laws” here in NYC the threshold for prosecuting traffic death are so high that very few drivers ever get convicted for killing pedestrians or bicyclist. If the there aren’t enough political will to deal with that I don’t see how anyone would care about a handful of EUC accidents. I am not familiar with jurisdiction elsewhere but I highly doubt any ban would be created nor enforced (jaywalking is also technically illegal) here in NYC. It's only a matter of time before some idiot riding like original posters video kills someone - my guess is once that happens public pressure will force a ban of EUC's in public. As for dealing with anyone found guilty of riding like that well I'd put them behind bars for a long time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post archieuc Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 In France this video was enough to change everything for the PEVs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srfiAOxbYHc It made a lot of noise in the media and drew the attention of the authorities to the PEVs. Later, a fatal accident on the motorway led to the introduction of a new and very strict regulation for electric scooters and EUCs. - 25km/h max (15mph) - insurance is mandatory (one for each wheel) but impossible to obtain for all wheels that can exceed this speed. In case of a police check, we risk €1500 and confiscation of the wheel - out-of-town driving ban Many neighbouring countries have simply banned PEVs. We've been lucky so far. Don't risk a ban in the U.S. ! 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) @archieuc They where just looking for an excuse IMO, the population in general hated electric kick scooters with a disproportionate rage.. It was freaking ridiculous at times. Edited June 26, 2020 by null 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hsiang Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, fryman said: It sounds like, you are not putting much value on someone else's life or quality of life. I am kinda blown away by this thing you said. After reading what I wrote, your conclusion is that I am an unfeeling monster happy to see people killed? Like really? Anyone whos not standing next to you with a pitchfork and a torch on this issue is as good as a murderer? I get that people are emotional, if I was a dad and see some dude flying by kids like this my gut reaction would be anger. But again all I am saying is that based on my personal observation of how our political system works, and I am typically apolitical myself. I think that its is unlikely for EUC to be regulated in the US in the near future. The split in riding culture also reminds me of the earlier day of skier vs snowboarder, skier (when I was young) tends to be older ppl and saw the younger, riskier snowboarding crowd as a blight on the mountain and did everything they can to get us banned. But in the end the inflow of more people, interests, tricks, jumps benefited both sports. And as an older and more conservative guy now I try to be more open minded and not turn into the angry skiing dad that use to scream at my riskier younger self. Edited June 26, 2020 by Hsiang 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post davinche Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 1 hour ago, fryman said: It sounds like, you are not putting much value on someone else's life or quality of life. Where are you drawing this conclusion? He's clearly saying that in NYC if traffic accidents do pose a concern for additional regulation, there are "bigger fish to fry" than EUCs. My interpretation is that until other issues gets addressed first (if they ever do get addressed that is), it is unlikely that EUC will be the subject of regulation. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fryman Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 41 minutes ago, Hsiang said: I am kinda blown away by this thing you said. After reading what I wrote, your conclusion is that I am an unfeeling monster happy to see people killed? Like really? Anyone whos not standing next to you with a pitchfork and a torch on this issue is as good as a murderer? I get that people are emotional, if I was a dad and see some dude flying by kids like this my gut reaction would be anger. But again all I am saying is that based on my personal observation of how our political system works, and I am typically apolitical myself. I think that its is unlikely for EUC to be regulated in the US in the near future. The split in riding culture also reminds me of the earlier day of skier vs snowboarder, skier (when I was young) tends to be older ppl and saw the younger, riskier snowboarding crowd as a blight on the mountain and did everything they can to get us banned. But in the end the inflow of more people, interests, tricks, jumps benefited both sports. And as an older and more conservative guy now I try to be more open minded and not turn into the angry skiing dad that use to scream at my riskier younger self. Sorry, I should have directed my statement toward the NYC system not to you. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael D Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 4 hours ago, Hsiang said: I do want to say that the riding culture in NYC is completely different than anywhere else and the expectation from pedestrian is also different, I have a clip somewhere of an old lady with an walker crossing a 5 lane avenue against a red lights with taxis wizzing by. No one waits for a red and for the most part ppl watch where they are going and expects that no one else will follow the rules either. NYC had always been this way and if you watch any of the fixies bike messenger videos in NYC you’ll see the exact same behavior as many of the same people are riding EUC now Why this statement? The subject is about reckless riding. I don't understand. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..... Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 1 hour ago, fryman said: Sorry, I should have directed my statement toward the NYC system not to you. And sadly, I think you have a point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hsiang Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 9 minutes ago, Michael D said: Why this statement? The subject is about reckless riding. I don't understand. Because what is consider reckless in one place may not be somewhere else. Everyone in NYC jaywalk, it is illegal but the culture here are such that no one is willing to wait. I get into plenty of trouble when I travel else where in the US and crossed the street against a red or in the middle of the block. I learned to be careful and watch what other pedestrian do and follow suite but growing up here, this is how I thought its like everywhere. As a result neither pedestrian nor motorist expects that they can follow the traffic signal blindly and generally pay more attention to the traffic. Also because of this people generally are more tolerant of this type of mixed traffic. As a matter of fact when I use to ride a motorcycle, if the streets are empty except for me, people trying to cross would walk out to the middle and wait for me to pass them by at arms length and I always thought to myself; I am driving an 800lbs vehicle at 40mph, what if I slid and now you are right in my path? If you watch clips of how people cross a street in Vietnam you’ll see amore extreme version of this. There seems to be certain level of trust in the motorist that they would not intentionally try to run a pedestrian over. There are several places in NYC such as the brooklyn bridge where the bike path is right next to pedestrian walk way and bicyclist would sometime intentionally speed or even throw stuff at the pedestrians which I absolutely hate. But I get that NYC is different, I can always spot the new tourist as they look completely freaked out walking down the street. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mike_bike_kite Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 The problem is that you guys making these videos are seen as the ambassadors for our sport. Yourself and you stride are definitely up there. You should at least be trying to set a good example. I understand that "risky" riding scores more youtube hits but there really isn't any excuse for riding at speed in a park, especially near kids. Surely you can pick safer spots to try out top speeds etc. The problem though for many impressionable young folk is they watch these videos and assume that's how they should ride in order to be cool. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post davinche Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said: Surely you can pick safer spots to try out top speeds etc. He already addressed this... here is the direct quote. 6 hours ago, Hsiang said: As the guy who picked the demo location; looking back I agree that it was a mistake, the level of excitement and the performance of this wheel both exceeded expectation. We have conducted demo at this same location with prior Gotway wheels and there had never been issues before but the Sherman was just something else. Lesson learned, we’ll do this somewhere else and I can think of a few spots where there won’t be anyone we’ll endanger (other than our selves). Is there evidence / videos of Hsiang not being a good ambassador of EUCs? As far as I can tell (haven't watched all of the videos in his channel), he seems to be putting out good content. U-Stride was the biggest disappointment for me. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 4 hours ago, fryman said: It sounds like, you are not putting much value on someone else's life or quality of life. I think he's just stating reality. I didn't read what he wrote to be saying he didn't care if people were killed. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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