Reckless riding is going to get us banned

[Tryptych]

On 6/26/2020 at 2:47 PM, Hsiang said:

I think that its is unlikely for EUC to be regulated in the US in the near future.

You're extremely arrogant. There is no way to justify the behavior of these videos and your little NYC buddies. Watching you try made my skin crawl.

Which part did you not understand from archieuc's post below?

On 6/26/2020 at 2:16 PM, archieuc said:

In France this video was enough to change everything for the PEVs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

It made a lot of noise in the media and drew the attention of the authorities to the PEVs. Later, a fatal accident on the motorway led to the introduction of a new and very strict regulation for electric scooters and EUCs.
- 25km/h max (15mph)
- insurance is mandatory (one for each wheel) but impossible to obtain for all wheels that can exceed this speed. In case of a police check, we risk €1500 and confiscation of the wheel
- out-of-town driving ban
Many neighbouring countries have simply banned PEVs. We've been lucky so far.

Don't risk a ban in the U.S. !

You NYC boys think you're living in a little bubble and what you do doesn't affect the EUC Community globally?

Not when you're posting this crap all over YouTube! Your videos affect us worldwide! You are representing all of us!

U-Stride's video could easily go viral and/or get on the news, just like the video in archieuc's post. U-Stride has proven himself to be a greedy scumbag for keeping that video up when he knows this could be the outcome.  Everyone who doesn't want a laws like France should unsubscribe from these channels and report these videos (to do a report on Youtube: hit the three dots beside the subscribe button, hit report, choose Harmful Dangerous Acts).

PLEASE READ ARCHIEUC'S POST A FEW TIMES AND BE SMARTER
(at least on YouTube where you represent us ALL)

[ir_fuel]

I can confirm @archieuc's post. I live in Belgium and that video even made the news here. Luckily no laws were changed (PEV's are already regulated here and you're not supposed to go faster than 25 km/h).

[LanghamP]

21 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Nah, I love debating. Look at my history. If I tell you this, which I rarely do say these things, then the particular discussion isn't even worth my time. 
 

Any experienced rider knows you can carve harder with more control when you first go opposite the direction you intend to go. 

My experience is that most wheels can be turned far enough to drag a footpad, at any speed, in about 1/3 of a second, regardless of weaving or not, but all wheels do require a strong twist to point in the opposite direction. No body motion or swinging of arms is required. Wheels compare very favorably to sportbikes as you can lean them over extremely quickly without losing traction.

My observation is that riders who carve are much better riders than the straight up and down, not because they are better positioning their wheel but rather the act of constantly carving teaches and practices the skill of turning the wheel. You need to practice turning the wheel because unlike a motorcycle where you just have the handlebars, with a wheel there's your whole body that is required.

Just turning the wheel is pretty complex. For example, the wheel slows down and falls behind the rider during the apex of the turn, then speeds up and moves ahead of the rider when finishing the turn. This is due to the circumference of the tire getting smaller on the tire edges.

I personally don't carve since it's just wasted motion but I do make it a point to practice riding (and crashing) as fast as possible on curvy golf paths.

[Hsiang]

5 hours ago, Tryptych said:

You're extremely arrogant. There is no way to justify the behavior of these videos and your little NYC buddies. Watching you try made my skin crawl.

Which part did you not understand from archieuc's post below?

You NYC boys think you're living in a little bubble and what you do doesn't affect the EUC Community globally?

Not when you're posting this crap all over YouTube! Your videos affect us worldwide! You are representing all of us!

U-Stride's video could easily go viral and/or get on the news, just like the video in archieuc's post. U-Stride has proven himself to be a greedy scumbag for keeping that video up when he knows this could be the outcome.  Everyone who doesn't want a laws like France should unsubscribe from these channels and report these videos (to do a report on Youtube: hit the three dots beside the subscribe button, hit report, choose Harmful Dangerous Acts).

PLEASE READ ARCHIEUC'S POST A FEW TIMES AND BE SMARTER
(at least on YouTube where you represent us ALL)

My statement starts with “I think” and if you feel that any one who’s thinking does not align with yours is “extremely arrogant”, then I am curious as to what your definition for arrogant is?

You responded to none of my or @Marty Backe reasons for why we don’t think these videos will get EUC banned in the US, this is a discussion the last time I checked.

 

[MikieSWE]

3 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

I can confirm @archieuc's post. I live in Belgium and that video even made the news here. Luckily no laws were changed (PEV's are already regulated here and you're not supposed to go faster than 25 km/h).

I think that is where EU is giong in general. In sweden the 'law' is implemented after next summer. So Im gonna take all out of the time I get. Not 'banned' implying way, just FREEDOM ENJOYING way as much I can. Despite the 25 km/h (safe?) hysteria. :)

 

[Hsiang]

6 minutes ago, MikieSWE said:

I think that is where EU is giong in general. In sweden the 'law' is implemented after next summer. So Im gonna take all out of the time I get. Not 'banned' implying way, just FREEDOM ENJOYING way as much I can. Despite the 25 km/h (safe?) hysteria.

 

So more on this, the theory is that a video showing risky behaviors in the US would effect EU legislation. Do you think this is likely? I imagine that there are a lot of crazy things we American does that the Europeans finds abhorring, but passing laws in reaction to it seems unlikely. Since I am extremely skeptical that the reverse could be true; my impression are that strange European news are more viewed as a curiosity and less as a “things that can happen here”.

[mike_bike_kite]

29 minutes ago, Hsiang said:

So more on this, the theory is that a video showing risky behaviors in the US would effect EU legislation. Do you think this is likely?

Yes.

I was going to start out by saying that I didn't think you personally had done anything wrong. Unfortunately I've changed my mind because it's you releasing the video and condoning their behaviour plus you set up the demo of a high speed wheel in a park filled with pedestrians. What really amazes me is that you can't see anything wrong with their riding behaviour. I'm honestly astounded by that and I can only guess that you don't have children yourself. Here in the UK we were (are?) so close to getting legalised (they're green, they don't take up much space on the road and they fit in with our existing transport infrastructure). Even the prime minister thought that PEVs should be made legal. Obviously most people and politicians haven't a clue what an EUC is but a quick search on youtube will educate them - if they see your video then they'll never want to ever see them legalised.

[MikieSWE]

1 hour ago, Hsiang said:

So more on this, the theory is that a video showing risky behaviors in the US would effect EU legislation. Do you think this is likely? I imagine that there are a lot of crazy things we American does that the Europeans finds abhorring, but passing laws in reaction to it seems unlikely. Since I am extremely skeptical that the reverse could be true; my impression are that strange European news are more viewed as a curiosity and less as a “things that can happen here”.

Full true. Curiousity will affect minds. As for politicians. EU things aint applying in your environment. Period. Still I like to live there (US) what comes to EUC things. Here (Europe), all the 'new' tech is scarying and abnormal. Politicians always take the easy road. Never want their name on the last line. It is abit annoying to me. I just wish the Swedish way, (whatever that means) go the right way of the EUC way. Not the common particular personal transportation way, but give a bit slack to EUC, as it is a totally different way of movement in the common sense and society. An EUC can go everywhere where you can walk or even crawl. Hard or not. Freedom of movement. Same skill needed as walking!!. Speed?, it does not apply, its up to the rider of EUC. Laws?, that comes into calculation as much as the responsibility of the rider/driver. Same as a bicycle rider anywhere, or a driver of a Koenigsegg (Swedish!, top/best existing super-sports-car on the planet) on the road. Its personal judgement and local rules. An EUC in any environment is a true freedom of movement. I will in future make videos in south Asian countries with real chaos traffic environment, since I have been driving there about 15 years. Any normal sensible common sense aint applying there. NY style.. pls go die there in the a.m if you like. You will. I am surviving in Asia'n traffic. Law's? Its one thing. Following the LOCAL traffic behavior is another thing, that works mostly everywhere. Understanding it is another issue.  Everything is local. Learn it, or suffer. Risky behavior comes of lack of understanding, or ignorance, makes it worse. thats all. My 0.02

[MikieSWE]

21 hours ago, Gasmantle said:

Maybe in 30 - 40 - 50 yrs time when we are all old stagers we will be on this forum having upgraded to 4 wheels and discussing the new suspension, battery life, tires etc on our golf carts

Why limit it to 4 wheels? At that time we will have full suspension gyro stabilized 1 wheelers for everything!

[Gasmantle]

2 hours ago, Hsiang said:

So more on this, the theory is that a video showing risky behaviors in the US would effect EU legislation. Do you think this is likely?

I'd say it is almost certain.

To say that the crazy riding you do in New York doesn't affect others is incredibly naive.

The USA maybe a bit more flexible about turning a blind eye to EUC's but I can assure you here in the UK things are taken seriously so politicians by and large are reluctant to legalise anything where there is even the remotest risk. I accept that our politicians are often far too cautious but that is the reality and we have to live with it.

At the moment we have a Prime Minister who despite his faults is in principle pro 'green' transport, he's done his bit to promote bicycles and get people out of cars - if ever we in the UK are going to get EUC's legalised it is now. The last thing we need is half wits in New York openly posting on you tube how stupid they are.

Use a bit of common sense, if you want to ride like an idiot do it somewhere that endangers you and no-one else - don't for one minute think that your stupidity doesn't reflect on the rest of us and influence legislation.

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Gasmantle

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Yes.

I was going to start out by saying that I didn't think you personally had done anything wrong. Unfortunately I've changed my mind because it's you releasing the video and condoning their behaviour plus you set up the demo of a high speed wheel in a park filled with pedestrians. What really amazes me is that you can't see anything wrong with their riding behaviour. I'm honestly astounded by that and I can only guess that you don't have children yourself. Here in the UK we were (are?) so close to getting legalised (they're green, they don't take up much space on the road and they fit in with our existing transport infrastructure). Even the prime minister thought that PEVs should be made legal. Obviously most people and politicians haven't a clue what an EUC is but a quick search on youtube will educate them - if they see your video then they'll never want to ever see them legalised.

I think this is as straight to the point as it can be. It is not what the rider think it is how the ride is perceived by their surroundings, and despite videos do not show the full picture, looking at it at YouTube will create opinions. And the state of EUC rides in the UK right now depends not being the first thing popping up is a 60+kmh crash and the next where people weaving in-between crowds of pedestrians and families. And even worse a crowd cheering because someone cuts- out and nearly hit people just before that are going about their everyday business. 

I just looked at a Chooch Tech video, where he is going very very fast on a MSX. but it is in a place where he is not in a crowd. So the risk is on him only. unless he meets someone on that trail. What I mean by this is there is a time and place for everything. Getting your kicks by riding the limit in a crowd is not okey behavior to me. I don't think I am alone with this view.  

Now we can debate this back an forth and in the end it comes down to how personal belief are set by local culture and parents raising you and your experiences. Due to this we will most surly not see an agreement on this. The question if someone can view this from 3rd person view and see the other point and why some are getting upset and if you respect the impact someone is calling out it can have. Or you just do what you want from you nose and disregarding everything else. 

I lived 3 years in the UK, it thought me one thing, respect of other people meant something else than I were used to. I took that on-board. It changed my views. It is not the same as being perfectly adapted. But my goal post moved (a lot). I grew up in a country (Denmark) that doesn't regard political correct that high. due to it is often double standards involved. 

I do hope the debate here make someone think a 2nd time so we all get to enjoy the fun and lifestyle of EUV/PEV riding. Some might recalled that laws were to be passed on to ban EUC in Denmark too. the main reason was PEV rentals and the huge problems they caused. 

[Marty Backe]

22 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I think this is as straight to the point as it can be. It is not what the rider think it is how the ride is perceived by their surroundings, and despite videos do not show the full picture, looking at it at YouTube will create opinions. And the state of EUC rides in the UK right now depends not being the first thing popping up is a 60+kmh crash and the next where people weaving in-between crowds of pedestrians and families. And even worse a crowd cheering because someone cuts- out and nearly hit people just before that are going about their everyday business. 

I just looked at a Chooch Tech video, where he is going very very fast on a MSX. but it is in a place where he is not in a crowd. So the risk is on him only. unless he meets someone on that trail. What I mean by this is there is a time and place for everything. Getting your kicks by riding the limit in a crowd is not okey behavior to me. I don't think I am alone with this view.  

Now we can debate this back an forth and in the end it comes down to how personal belief are set by local culture and parents raising you and your experiences. Due to this we will most surly not see an agreement on this. The question if someone can view this from 3rd person view and see the other point and why some are getting upset and if you respect the impact someone is calling out it can have. Or you just do what you want from you nose and disregarding everything else. 

I lived 3 years in the UK, it thought me one thing, respect of other people meant something else than I were used to. I took that on-board. It changed my views. It is not the same as being perfectly adapted. But my goal post moved (a lot). I grew up in a country (Denmark) that doesn't regard political correct that high. due to it is often double standards involved. 

I do hope the debate here make someone think a 2nd time so we all get to enjoy the fun and lifestyle of EUV/PEV riding. Some might recalled that laws were to be passed on to ban EUC in Denmark too. the main reason was PEV rentals and the huge problems they caused. 

My sense is that we in the Forum live in a backwater of the EUC world. There is a vast amount of EUC energy out there that has no concern, interest, or knowledge of what's said here.

[mike_bike_kite]

3 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

My sense is that we in the Forum live in a backwater of the EUC world. There is a vast amount of EUC energy out there that has no concern, interest, or knowledge of what's said here.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't say it. I suspect most riders watch youtube videos of interesting new wheels even if they don't participate here. Shouldn't we try to encourage the producers of these videos to do things that are actually good for our community?

[Nic]

2 hours ago, Hsiang said:

So more on this, the theory is that a video showing risky behaviors in the US would effect EU legislation. Do you think this is likely?

Because PEVs are not yet legalised here in the UK then policy makers will look at what happens elsewhere when formulating legislation. And those that are against legalising PEVs will have ammunition to argue the case for keeping PEVs from our streets.

[Hsiang]

11 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

My sense is that we in the Forum live in a backwater of the EUC world. There is a vast amount of EUC energy out there that has no concern, interest, or knowledge of what's said here.

LOL Marty, I been trying to think of a polite way of saying this, the very fact that we're carrying on a long boring political discussion guarantee that none of the people whom are the target of the complains will ever read any of it.

The only way to stop these behavior is to stop the sales of any EUC capable of speed greater than 31mph, then the ppl whom like speed would move on to something else. But I think that is neither possible nor something we like to see (may be some wouldn't mind).

I'll find a better location for future demos, however if anyone think that I am somehow the tsar of EUC media of NYC and can control what people do and post then you're sadly mistaken. and before people get more mad, I'll just stay that I am aware and mindful of what I post. However I am not quite ready to have a focus group determine what goes in my video just yet.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Hsiang

[Nic]

10 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

My sense is that we in the Forum live in a backwater of the EUC world. There is a vast amount of EUC energy out there that has no concern, interest, or knowledge of what's said here.

Any google search for electric unicycles usually contains results from this forum ... probably because EUC is so niche.

[Gasmantle]

1 minute ago, Hsiang said:

The only way to stop these behavior is to stop the sales of any EUC capable of speed greater than 31mph, then the ppl whom like speed would move on to something else. But I think that is neither possible nor something we like to see (may be some wouldn't mind).

We don't need to ban the sale of EUC's capable of more than 31mph, we just need to ban the halfwits doing so in public parks and built up areas then posting their stupidity for the world to see.

[Marty Backe]

19 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

That doesn't mean we shouldn't say it. I suspect most riders watch youtube videos of interesting new wheels even if they don't participate here. Shouldn't we try to encourage the producers of these videos to do things that are actually good for our community?

I agree. I wasn't implying otherwise. I'm here after all. But I meet so many EUCers in person and virtually that don't know anything about this Forum. So I don't hold out much hope that what is said on this site has much influence. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[Michael Tucker]

31 minutes ago, Nic said:

Any google search for electric unicycles usually contains results from this forum ... probably because EUC is so niche.

A "Google Search" is not any sort of scientific measure (of nicheness). Using any Google product will yield highly targeted results by design as it synthesizes what you "want to see" based on which web browser your using, past searches, your geographical location, your G-mail content, your social media activity (including this forum) and a mix of advertisers' paid content and data tracking activity monitor partners (like your internet provider).

[Nic]

34 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

A "Google Search" is not any sort of scientific measure (of nicheness). Using any Google product will yield highly targeted results by design as it synthesizes what you "want to see" based on which web browser your using, past searches, your geographical location, your G-mail content, your social media activity (including this forum) and a mix of advertisers' paid content and data tracking activity monitor partners (like your internet provider).

I suspect most of us here found this forum using Google. Also, when Google does its page rank then this forum must surely come up a lot when electric unicycles are searched as the search term appears here more often than anywhere else precisely because EUC is niche. I am sure you are correct about exactly how google decides what results to show and so it would make no sense for the results not to include this forum even if it isn't at the top of the results list for the reasons you stated.

[mike_bike_kite]

4 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Here in the UK we were (are?) so close to getting legalised (they're green, they don't take up much space on the road and they fit in with our existing transport infrastructure).

Literally 10 minutes ago they just announced that eScooters are becoming legal in the UK if under 15mph.  It sadly only included rental eScooters and certainly doesn't include EUCs but it's a step in the right direction. Riders have to have a driving license but not a helmet (I guess rental makes that difficult). I suspect they didn't include privately owned eScooters as they can be much faster than 15mph. But hey, it's a step in the right direction.

Am I allowed to quote myself?

[Nic]

21 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Literally 10 minutes ago they just announced that eScooters are becoming legal in the UK if under 15mph.  It sadly only included rental eScooters and certainly doesn't include EUCs but it's a step in the right direction. Riders have to have a driving license but not a helmet (I guess rental makes that difficult). I suspect they didn't include privately owned eScooters as they can be much faster than 15mph. But hey, it's a step in the right direction.

Am I allowed to quote myself?

Its just a 'trial' so they can decide whether to make e-scooters legal. After the trial (12 months) they will reach some kind of decision on PEVs and required legislation.

Rental e-scooters to be made legal on roads in Great Britain from Saturday

Edited June 30, 2020 by Nic

[davinche]

5 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Yes.

I was going to start out by saying that I didn't think you personally had done anything wrong. Unfortunately I've changed my mind because it's you releasing the video and condoning their behaviour plus you set up the demo of a high speed wheel in a park filled with pedestrians. What really amazes me is that you can't see anything wrong with their riding behaviour. I'm honestly astounded by that and I can only guess that you don't have children yourself. Here in the UK we were (are?) so close to getting legalised (they're green, they don't take up much space on the road and they fit in with our existing transport infrastructure). Even the prime minister thought that PEVs should be made legal. Obviously most people and politicians haven't a clue what an EUC is but a quick search on youtube will educate them - if they see your video then they'll never want to ever see them legalised.

Where did he say he was condoning the behavior? Just because he thinks it's unlikely that laws around EUCs will be passed in the US doesn't mean he condones the behavior. Hsiang did say he told people to not post the highway video - they did it anyways.

The thing is, if you're out to look for trouble you will find it. And if the media in the EU is looking at obscure EUC videos to base their legislation around... that is a bigger problem. You can find arguments against anything if you look hard enough.

To your point about searching about EUCs on YouTube - maybe we're lucky that most of the top results are @Marty Backe range tests/reviews.

Edited June 30, 2020 by davinche

[Nic]

7 minutes ago, davinche said:

Where did he say he was condoning the behavior? Just because he thinks it's unlikely that laws around EUCs will be passed in the US doesn't mean he condones the behavior. Hsiang did say he told people to not post the highway video - they did it anyways.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Nic

[Jessedegenerate]

On 6/28/2020 at 6:00 AM, Nic said:

Pedestrians aren't breaking the law by walking down a shared path and they aren't putting anyone in danger. They will move out the way if then know you are approaching. They don't carry mirrors and can't see what is behind them. Yes, its a little bit inconsiderate but you can't expect them to walk single file just so you can ride faster. There is still plenty of space to pass. Pedestrians can be charged for jaywalking so they do have rules to follow. People that are registered blind, deaf, or that have other disabilities need to be safe as they aren't able to act in a way that you would deem considerate.

This is kinda why the New york guys have an attitude, and say you need to be from NYC, due to culture differences. That path is not for the pedestrians. That's the bike path. If you want to see the pedestrian side, see ustride's video. we tried to flag him down and tell him that side was more for slower traffic but he had left a little quickly in excitement. You would know this, and comment appropriately if you were from here. 

no pedestrians get charged for jaywalking in NYC. it's not enforced. It's hilarious how quickly this thread turned into a mob, and accelerated into "you can't play your music either" kinda stuff. Would be better to compare us to other extreme urban areas, which america doesn't really have a lot of, LA is the next biggest city, and it's really just a bunch of suburbs. (i don't mean that in a knocking it way, it's chill as hell)