The Veteran Sgt. Sherman Hemsley - Brief Thoughts on the Jeffersons by houseofjob

[houseofjob]

Am I the only one that thinks wheels shouldn't have people names (like cats and dogs)?

 

Anyhoo.... thanks to @Hsiang and indirectly eWheels for the brief poke-prod-ride today of the Sherpa (I refuse to call this wheel by it's official name). 

 

While you're all waiting for the Hsiang-ster (call him Sean, he'll love that!) to drop his Spongebob video, thought I'd offer my brief and unbiased thoughts for you insatiable bastards EUC folk.

 

Thoughts in No Order:

• This wheels reminds me a LOT of my now dead  Rockwheel GT16, from the layout (2 permanently wired longitudinal battery pairs down each leg, board on top, exposed wheel), to the long hex pedal shape, to the similar hex column trolley (albeit the GT16 one was an external add-on). The gyro-pedal resistance even feels reminiscent (but not identical) to the GT16, with the GT16 being more a hard rubber sponginess, to the Veteran's medium rubber sponginess (ie. not like the Gotway brick hard or glide-y/air-y soft mode swing, although local guys tipped me to the fact that the newer MSP boards now also feel spongy, unlike previous MPS FW boards.

              

 

• The natural comparison is to the MSX/MSP, but the ride feel to me is not that. First, the ergonomics are waaay better than the MSX series, as there is more side shell area support height, from pedal to top-of-shell, which the MSX series never had, due to it being just an MSV3 case with the pedals moved up higher, so less resulting side shell area height support. The benefit of the batteries being perfectly balanced on each side flanking the center axle, is that there is no top-heaviness that wheels with extra top batteries suffer. Same goes for the MSX series, since those batteries are held above the center axle with no lower battery to balance it out. On ride, Shermona felt plenty balanced, albeit with some girth, even with pretty high-feeling pedals (whatever that means anymore). Neither me nor @Hsiang nor @Ben Kim were willing to bust 40+, but it's my theory that this wheel will perform similar or slightly higher max compared to the 100V MSX, esp seeing in the stress torque test below that this wheel is not tuned for torque like the MSP is (but no other wheel is basically). This isn't to be confused that Slovenia doesn't feel easy to push accelerate, because it does feel nice and robust in that realm, but the ppl seem to confuse real torque power with what they are feeling pedal pressure-wise, which IMHO is more how the response is tuned v acceleration. Rough feel/eyeballing it, I'd say the She-man feels more responsive to acceleration than a 100V MSX simply due to the fact that the 100V MSX is a brick hard shelf on all modes and will fight you the more acceleration you try to summon (yes contrary to what guys on here think, but I'm adamant about this point often on these forums). I say this because the internal components (battery, board, BT module, etc.) all look like the same supplier stuff as Gotways, because it IS coming from the same place! So I don't think they're reinventing anything here, just variations on a theme.

 

 

• If anyone cares (I think only me @Tishawn Fahie, @chulander, and maybe a couple more guys would), this Veteran Shellfish's soft mode is super interesting IMHO, and is ACTUALLY REAL SOFT MODE! (which is why I'm even entertaining/contemplating getting this wheel). Like I said above, it's definitely not Gotway soft mode, due to the rubbery sponginess, but has proper front pedal push swing/travel, like an OG Gotway soft mode, but unlike OG Gotway soft, the backswing brake has some significant swing/travel to it, which threw me off (as Gotway OG soft backswing is harder with less travel). Due to the short time I was on it, I'm not totally sure what to make of that, but it does intrigue me into wanting to master that feel.

 

• Construction/build quality was on my checklist, and this Veteran is definitely a notch above the cram-and-jam bees nest that is the MSX series. The shell plastic when grabbed and pinched on both sides feels noticeably thicker than the usual Gotway shells, as I tried to tug and warp the inner shell as I can do on my Monster inner shell, but this Shamama inner shell was stiffer and didn't flex nearly as much, especially at the seam where the pedal arms contact the inner shell rectangular column, so there's some hope the usual Gotway cracking at that juncture doesn't happen with the Veteran. And all the board wiring is clean, what with no speaker / LEDs (thank God!), all self contained up top. 

 

• The rail on touch wasn't super high quality, but not super cheap to the touch either, so better than I thought going in. The rails seem to be in 2 parts, where they adjoin to holed anchoring fixtures on the pedal arm itself, beneath the L support. The rail measures at ~ 0.8" for guys who are looking for mounting solutions.

           

 

• The new longer pedals I thought I would hate, but eh, they seemed fine on trial. Since the normal hotshot YouTubers have no interest in divulging, but I do: Veteran is using the same pedal arm angle and width (minus the need for spacers), so you can swap in any Gotway pedal into this Shamgod you want! (below with my MCM5 pedal on)

           

 

• Water infiltration on this wheel might suffer a bit, but not major I think. None of the seams on the shell covers are gasketed, but that's an easy fix. However, the trolley column holes are also not gasketed, albeit the seams are very tiny, but this would be one possible are of infiltration (not MSX trolley handle level tho). Also, the front and back cooling vent holes, while I like for obvious cooling design, are 2 other areas of possible water penetration, but less trivial, as those vent holes are below the actual board level (board is raised by the heasink), pointed at the heatsink cavities below.

          

 

• But also on the above rain tip, the LCD panel unfortunately isn't the waterproof gel+plastic button deal, it's plastic cover over a mechanical plastic button, and the LCD panel was peeling at 1 edge from the start, so this thing is possibly vulnerable in rain. I would invest in a good XL shower cap or garbage bag cover for rain 

         

 

• Another useless (or useful(?)) thing no YouTuber would cover is the fact that, yes, the headlight and taillight are easily removable, and the plugs are 3.5mm pins. Which is awesome because you can technically easily swap in your own headlight of choice! In fact, @Ben Kim already found the generic frontlight they're using here. 

         .    

 

• Portability-wise, it's just as ppl probably think here: this thing, while not impossible, is DAMN HEAVY! (ie. heaviest in the market) And you can only really lift it awkwardly like a heavy gaming PC by the far front and back railing. This is really the major hiccup that has me wavering over pressing the buy button.

 

• Oh! and for the seated riding fans, this thing is definitely too low to just sit. It's not MSX squatty-potty bad, but you still have to straddle the back edge with your twig-and-berries. What a shame! All they needed to do is make this thing a few inches taller for seatless proper seated riding. Oh well.

 

 

 

Some guys are trying to herald this as the next Messiah, one wheel-to-vanquish all, but IMHO it's more like this is what the 100V MSX should have been: an actual improved re-design. If you don't care about build quality or want a lighter, cheaper wheel with similar performance, definitely the MSX is still that. But M Night Shamalan to me is the MSX speed performance, wrapped in a much better and cleaner shell, but she also gained like 30+ lbs and can't be lifted up and across the room in a civil manner (oh yeah, I flaked and forgot to bring my spare power button to test, but I spied a few empty 2-pin spots on the board that might be hiding as a live handle disengage port, dunno).

 

Argh, if the soft mode wasn't so intriguing, I would so easily be able to cross this wheel off my list.

 

Decisions, decisions......

 

EDIT: FML, pre-ordered

 

     

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by houseofjob

[Ben Kim]

I hope one of those guys tomorrow will send this wheel and hit 50 mph. Given a 64-65 mph freespin speed and deducting 12 mph, it should hit 50 with room to spare. 

With 10p, it can deliver some serious current when the wheel asks for it, which no MSX can do @ 4p. So I still hold firm on my belief that the Sherminator is the speed/range whore dream wheel, given the 74.5V low voltage tiltback and 104-105 kmh freespin we personally observed today!

Honestly after playing with the LCD some today, I won’t feel bad covering it with a seat; won’t need it. 

[Hsiang]

What Chris is saying that he Loved it! except that he's afraid of being hurt again down the road like his ex the Z10! Which I still loves despite the daily beating LOL

[shellac]

The Nikola and Tesla both have person names too you know! Waiting for your nicknames for those wheels. 

Thanks for the entertaining review. 

[houseofjob]

9 hours ago, Ben Kim said:

I hope one of those guys tomorrow will send this wheel and hit 50 mph. Given a 64-65 mph freespin speed and deducting 12 mph, it should hit 50 with room to spare. 

 

1 hour ago, Hsiang said:

What Chris is saying that he Loved it! except that he's afraid of being hurt again down the road like his ex the Z10! Which I still loves despite the daily beating LOL

   

 

55 minutes ago, shellac said:

The Nikola and Tesla both have person names too you know! Waiting for your nicknames for those wheels. 

Crap! You're right, although Sir Nikola Tesla's given names don't feel like ppl's names for some reason to me (?)

55 minutes ago, shellac said:

Thanks for the entertaining review. 

Sure and thanks!

[AtlasP]

> She-man

Guys, we have a winner. This wheel will forever be known as the Veteran She-man to me.

--

Joking aside, great write-up. Keeping in mind that this is just the first wheel from a new company, I think Veteran shows a lot of potential for the future. Hopefully they just figure out how to name any future products.

Edited June 21, 2020 by AtlasP

[Unventor]

@houseofjob despite I have no interest in buying this, I did find it interesting to read your opinion and thoughts. 

I just don't have the need for high speed so suspension options are much more interesting to me. 

But that said I really like that you provide practical data that no youtuber normally talk about. Like tube size for mounting stuff or swapping headlights. 

That surely look interesting even to me. Same with you walk over of weatherproofing. Something that I think is very important picking a wheel now as I rarely use my car. I try to ride 99% of the time on EUC instead.

Now I guess the V11 isn't in your interest, but I would love to read a similar post on this or even better one of your famous YouTube review/thoughts of testing vs long term ownership. 

Thank a lot for your above posts. I guess it comes down to diversity of choice.

I just hope high speed wheels don't end up causing bad focus of government and law enforcement. Last thing any of us wants is an EUC ban.

[houseofjob]

10 minutes ago, Unventor said:

@houseofjob despite I have no interest in buying this, I did find it interesting to read your opinion and thoughts. 

Tack!

 

10 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I just don't have the need for high speed so suspension options are much more interesting to me. 

Hmmm...

Yeah, I only need really a certain speed on smaller 18 and below wheels, enough to burst and get out of the way of cars/trucks in NYC, and these wheels are starting to go above that.

Suspension I feel certainly has a place in the EUC market, but if riders think it's going to save them from an unseen bump or pothole, I'm afraid they will be very mistaken. I would have rather seen these suspension wheels go smaller and compact, on say a 14 or 16, just to compensate for the smaller diameter and deliver a smaller overall package, but I foresee these first 2 suspension wheels will not be the only ones that ever come to market, so I will wait for something more appealing, and that doesn't compromise on speed or range.

 

10 minutes ago, Unventor said:

But that said I really like that you provide practical data that no youtuber normally talk about. Like tube size for mounting stuff or swapping headlights. 

That surely look interesting even to me. Same with you walk over of weatherproofing. Something that I think is very important picking a wheel now as I rarely use my car. I try to ride 99% of the time on EUC instead.

Thanks again~ 

Quite honestly, I'm personally tired of the "this wheel is agile/nimble/maneuverable" or "this wheel is stable", etc. reviews-in-a-vacuum, because the EUC experience is so drastically different according to how you ride, so this basically tells me, as a potential buyer, nothing useful unless they either ride exactly like I do, or they are relating actual apples for apples data against existing wheels in a scientific numbers-based approach.

So I'm often still left asking super basic stuff like is this the same GX16-5 pin out as Gotway (which grrrr, I forgot my voltage meter to test!); what the rail width is for mounting, is there space for a thicker tire (no), etc. I guess inane stuff for the guys who need to pull in views by making their wheels rock climb or jump tall buildings and such, but I could care less about stuff like that.

 

10 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Now I guess the V11 isn't in your interest, but I would love to read a similar post on this or even better one of your famous YouTube review/thoughts of testing vs long term ownership. 

Thank a lot for your above posts. I guess it comes down to diversity of choice.

I just hope high speed wheels don't end up causing bad focus of government and law enforcement. Last thing any of us wants is an EUC ban.

LOL, more like one of my niche long-winded, no-exciting-crashes-or-jumps YouTubes haha, but again, thanks, you're too kind. 

I have to say, these early EUC reviews are starting to sound and look the same, and I love the fact that Ian / SpeedyfeetUK is doing these "After 1,000km update" honest real usage videos, so perhaps I'll do some of those on my upcoming Veteran whenever I get back to my channel.

And yes, you're correct in your assumption that yes, I don't have much interest in the V11, but we do have an upcoming demo pitting both suspension wheels against each other, apparently next weekend by @Hsiang, so if I get the curiosity itch, I might go have a look just for education 

[Unventor]

30 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Quite honestly, I'm personally tired of the "this wheel is agile/nimble/maneuverable" or "this wheel is stable", etc. reviews-in-a-vacuum, because the EUC experience is so drastically different according to how you ride, so this basically tells me, as a potential buyer, nothing useful unless they either ride exactly like I do, or they are relating actual apples for apples data against existing wheels in a scientific numbers-based approach.

So I'm often still left asking super basic stuff like is this the same GX16-5 pin out as Gotway (which grrrr, I forgot my voltage meter to test!); what the rail width is for mounting, is there space for a thicker tire (no), etc. I guess inane stuff for the guys who need to pull in views by making their wheels rock climb or jump tall buildings and such, but I could care less about stuff like that.

 

3 hours ago, Unventor said:

Now I guess the V11 isn't in your interest, but I would love to read a similar post on this or even better one of your famous YouTube review/thoughts of testing vs long term ownership. 

Thank a lot for your above posts. I guess it comes down to diversity of choice.

I just hope high speed wheels don't end up causing bad focus of government and law enforcement. Last thing any of us wants is an EUC ban.

LOL, more like one of my niche long-winded, no-exciting-crashes-or-jumps YouTubes haha, but again, thanks, you're too kind. 

I have to say, these early EUC reviews are starting to sound and look the same, and I love the fact that Ian / SpeedyfeetUK is doing these "After 1,000km update" honest real usage videos, so perhaps I'll do some of those on my upcoming Veteran whenever I get back to my channel.

And yes, you're correct in your assumption that yes, I don't have much interest in the V11, but we do have an upcoming demo pitting both suspension wheels against each other, apparently next weekend by @Hsiang, so if I get the curiosity itch, I might go have a look just for education 

This is actually why I would look forward to spending time on any thought you care to share should you decide to test the other things going on in EUC development different from more powerful motor and bigger battery.

I am very sure we ride very different you and I. But it would also make you perfect to point out things I had not thought of.

It might matter less as I already ordered my V11. But there is also the next wheel after this one to consider.

Looking at the Veteran I like the look of the tube roll case. Both from a more raw look and from practical stand point. If wheels keep getting heavier as trend seems to go, we would need a different stronger assembly than a few mm thick plastic structure can give. 

Still I hope should you choose to spend time to check them out, that you have a fun time. 

Honesty pre- production models has changes so much it is likely to be more useful to look at first production models. 

Anyway ride safe.

[h3X]

On 6/21/2020 at 6:31 AM, houseofjob said:

Am I the only one that thinks wheels shouldn't have people names (like cats and dogs)?

In this context I don't think Sherman is a people name - imo it's named after the M4 Sherman tank (used by the allies in WWII), because it's built like a tank.

[houseofjob]

3 hours ago, h3X said:

In this context I don't think Sherman is a people name - imo it's named after the M4 Sherman tank (used by the allies in WWII), because it's built like a tank.

Nope!

In that context, it's still a name:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Sherman

[Esbu]

27 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Nope!

In that context, it's still a name:

Veteran Sherman EUC designers inspired by this boat ?

Sherman´s top has almost the same shape like boat has 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_General_Sherman_(1864)

Edited June 24, 2020 by Esbu

[meepmeepmayer]

On 6/21/2020 at 10:33 PM, AtlasP said:

Hopefully they just figure out how to name any future products.

Their next wheel will be called "Patton", you heard it from me first.

No, I don't have any insider information. It's just obvious (well, to me at least)

[Esbu]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Their next wheel will be called "Patton", you heard it from me first.

No, I don't have any insider information. It's just obvious (well, to me at least)

I also think so, but not quite...

...hope they will surprise us and next wheel will be named not after his surname, but his nickname - "Bandito"

[shellac]

Ah yes, the general whom many still remember fondly. 

 

Probably true that they were thinking of the tank though. 

[houseofjob]

2 hours ago, Esbu said:

Veteran Sherman EUC designers inspired by this boat ?

Sherman´s top has almost the same shape like boat has 

LOL, that thing looks like a NYC tour boat 

[Bob Eisenman]

17 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

"Patton", you heard it from me first.

On the commuter rail ride to Newburyport the train stops in Hamilton where a WWII tank sits (seen from the train) in Patton Park about 50 - 60 feet from.

42°36'52"N 70°52'17"W

Patton is associated with Hamilton.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/05/13/patton-estate-becomes-part-his-adopted-hometown/ELJxnEB0itYIMFpV6n8PxI/story.html%3foutputType=amp

"

HAMILTON - General George S. Patton’s legacy is as stalwart in this North Shore community as the Sherman tank guarding a park named for the World War II hero in the town center.

Patton came to live in Hamilton in 1928, on a country estate of fertile fields and horse trails running along the Ipswich River."

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Bob Eisenman

[Bob Eisenman]

@meepmeepmayerhey...I was reading about astronomy stuff and learned of Wendelstein observatory

http://www.wendelstein-observatorium.de/wst_en.html

And...the eRosita x Ray telescope (German/Russian) released an x ray map of the universe.

Munich (as I have read) is the home of MPE (Max Planck Extraterrestrial)

https://www.mpe.mpg.de/eROSITA

 

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Bob Eisenman

[Esbu]

4 hours ago, Bob Eisenman said:

And...the eRosita x Ray telescope (German/Russian) released an x ray map of the universe.

whoa, our universe looks like reptilian eye

[Hsiang]

On 6/22/2020 at 2:01 PM, Unventor said:

@houseofjob despite I have no interest in buying this, I did find it interesting to read your opinion and thoughts. 

I just don't have the need for high speed so suspension options are much more interesting to me. 

But that said I really like that you provide practical data that no youtuber normally talk about. Like tube size for mounting stuff or swapping headlights. 

That surely look interesting even to me. Same with you walk over of weatherproofing. Something that I think is very important picking a wheel now as I rarely use my car. I try to ride 99% of the time on EUC instead.

Now I guess the V11 isn't in your interest, but I would love to read a similar post on this or even better one of your famous YouTube review/thoughts of testing vs long term ownership. 

Thank a lot for your above posts. I guess it comes down to diversity of choice.

I just hope high speed wheels don't end up causing bad focus of government and law enforcement. Last thing any of us wants is an EUC ban.

I did ask @houseofjob if he's willing to do a tear down of either the s18 or the v11, but he's too lazy to do it. So keep applying those pressure and maybe he'll cave and do some work! =D

[houseofjob]

16 minutes ago, Hsiang said:

I did ask @houseofjob if he's willing to do a tear down of either the s18 or the v11, but he's too lazy to do it. So keep applying those pressure and maybe he'll cave and do some work! =D

I don't think you need a 'teardown' of the S18, @Alien Rides already did that partially, unintentionally.

Edited June 26, 2020 by houseofjob

[Unventor]

9 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

I don't think you need a 'teardown' of the S18, @Alien Rides already did that unintentionally.

That picture almost got me to rush for the toilet....I don't think there is any better face for that comment. 

[Unventor]

16 minutes ago, Hsiang said:

I did ask @houseofjob if he's willing to do a tear down of either the s18 or the v11, but he's too lazy to do it. So keep applying those pressure and maybe he'll cave and do some work! =D

I have not view your review of the ban-all-euc Veteran wheel yet. Honestly I just think this is not doing anything good to the EUC community. The post on reddit is just what I expect would happen. I think it is a very sad development. 

With great power comes even greater responsibilities. Some one didn't get that bulletin or memo I guess. I am just not impressed by that "pro" ride style giving no thoughts to the surrounding you navigate in. 

As for a tear down I don't thinks the pre-production of the V11 is that interesting anymore, as pedal height/attachment point changed.As for the S18. I really don't care. I am not buying it. I have a V11 on pre-booking so that is where my money is. 

[Unventor]

On 6/25/2020 at 8:09 AM, Esbu said:

whoa, our universe looks like reptilian eye

I think that is upside down.....

[houseofjob]

1 minute ago, Unventor said:

That picture almost got me to rush for the toilet....I don't think there is any better face for that comment. 

Love Hanna-Barbera! I grew up on it!

  .