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EUC Endurist

KS16X stopped balancing at 40km/h

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please wear PSE, I would have needed a new toothline if I hadnt worn the full face helmet. and finger bruises can also be very bad

IMG_4200.jpeg.1030f793273452a236b020e63db9b4cc.jpeg

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Im really sorry that i spam the forum but I dont know how to properly post photos^^ 

Here is the darknessbot entry from the accident ride:

 

IMG_4194.png

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I could post MANY examples with rides that were between 40 and 50A max current. I will post only 5 for reference cause of spamming really bad here. maybe you understand why i felt very comfy riding 40 kmh and accelerating.

I have many more of those ride stats so wheres the problem with the previous posted? 

though these are among the highest stats in my darknessbot logs:

 

IMG_4203.png

IMG_4204.png

IMG_4209.png

IMG_4211.png

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Posted (edited)

the retailer really had the balls to tell me that I clearly shot the fuse with more than 30A current (I only sent him the screenshot from the accident ride) At tuesday I have an appointment at consumer rights and after it I will drive to him and I hope we will find a solution. 

this datas clearly indicate that the wheel hasn´t overpowered, so anything other must have happened in that moment. 

Or is there a possibility the moment of the crash wasn´t registered by darknessbot app? 

thanks again !!

Edited by EUC Endurist

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11 hours ago, buell47 said:

What? The rim is made of very soft inferior aluminum. 

My friend had her 16x replaced as she hit a pot hole and the rim did bend so much that it had to be replaced

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1 minute ago, Neon EUC said:

My friend had her 16x replaced as she hit a pot hole and the rim did bend so much that it had to be replaced

then mine will be definitely damaged..

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It depends. I had so many stacks at your speed and the euc worked fine. I crashed at 34 mph on the mcm4 3 years ago... still going strong now

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Just now, Neon EUC said:

It depends. I had so many stacks at your speed and the euc worked fine. I crashed at 34 mph on the mcm4 3 years ago... still going strong now

the problem wouldnt be there if I dropped like that, checked the datas and there are 60 km/h it would make total sense. it would be logical that the system is overpowered by that, not good that none of three alarms came but understandable.

but if you check the accident datas (first photo), wheres the reason?

25 minutes ago, EUC Endurist said:

Im really sorry that i spam the forum but I dont know how to properly post photos^^ 

Here is the darknessbot entry from the accident ride:

 

IMG_4194.png

accident datas

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Well im glad you're okay, and that you were wearing that helmet or else we could have had a repeat of that accident a few months ago. Still feel terrible for that guy. When the 16X came out there was such a huge spread of accidents. I couldnt trust it. At first i was super interested in it, but after watching and hearing about all the firmware issues and people going flying i changed my mind. I know some folks have perfect ones, but it was too much of a gamble for me. Too many failed stories. I stuck with my older 18XL. There are some reports of random accidents but they were in the low numbers. This is why I cant be an early adopter in this hobby. I have to wait for like version 8 before I hop on, its just too risky. 

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21 minutes ago, seage said:

Well im glad you're okay, and that you were wearing that helmet or else we could have had a repeat of that accident a few months ago. 

which guy do you mean?

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2 minutes ago, EUC Endurist said:

which guy do you mean?

A guy named Anthony. He posted about it on facebook. Totally different circumstances from yours though, but it just made me think about it when you said you landed on your face first. It was tragic because normally he was super geared up. Id seen lots of his videos, but this particular day he wasnt. He misread what would turn out to be a speedbump. I think he thought it was a painted line, and went down. Low speed, but no helmet. Im not sure of his condition now, but the damage to his face was extensive. 

I cant remember if they show his face in the video, but fair warning if they do, its graphic. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Never.

They will make a KS 16X equivalent, but with less vmax (safety) and it will end up costing $4000.

If you want to see why non-Chinese can never compete with Chinese, because the price dictates everything in this market, look at what has happened to Boosted with their skateboards. They got obliterated by Chinese e-skates that had the same performance for literally half the price.

It is all true, though for things that we care we still sometimes prefer to pay extra. Good example - cars. Even in China they still prefer Buick over Gillig/Cherry, in EU/USA many people purchase Audi instead of Hyundai. I think ONLY safety will not win against cheaper price but people will pay more for safety + aesthetics + performance.  Esp the 2-nd one because European design and aesthetics wins even in China. Another example is Apple. Mediocre hardware which looks pretty sells very good. Bottom line - make a wheel which will be  safer, will have competitive performance and it is pleasing for the eye, then people will totally agree to pay more for it and also more people will buy it.

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@EUC Endurist here is my KS16X some eucworld random  log(2x) my curent i often over 30A:  My V10F go over 30A too.

(these numbers are sorted by size in excel)

49.65
43.98
40.23
40.15
39.65
37.07
36.94
36.71

36.45

 

39.46
40.00
41.66
42.52
44.76
45.24
46.64
46.66
49.63

 

Here i share video what show cutoff: 

In reality you experience Ks16X "famous pedal dip" and panic lost control and fall i no say is you fault this is what propably hapend. After the fall you were shaken and confused it is logical that you do not remember exactly or your memories are inaccurate. Maybee you just overlean and no hear beeps against wind.

And here is answer to you question and what hapend and what about is this tread. 

 

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5 hours ago, EUC Endurist said:

this datas clearly indicate that the wheel hasn´t overpowered, so anything other must have happened in that moment.

I don’t think it’s that simple. The maximum declared specs of speed and power are not available at the same time. The closer you get to the max speed, the less power the wheel can provide. That’s why the screenshot of the max values of that ride doesn’t tell us much about what caused the crash. Other than it doesn’t seem that you would’ve blown the fuse.

But due to the amount of the 16X crashes, it seems clear that the it has much less power headroom at higher speeds than all other 50km/h wheels. In my opinion the power capability of the 16X drops faster than what the rider can be expected to compensate for. Meaning, I think it’s probable that the crash was not your fault per se. A 50km/h wheel should be able to handle a good acceleration still at 40km/h.

 However, (some versions of) the 16X does not. Which is why I think the top speed of the 16X should be 40-45km/h.

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3 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

However, (some versions of) the 16X does not. Which is why I think the top speed of the 16X should be 40-45km/h.

Yep. 25mph alarm, 28mph tiltback seems to be working for me. I weigh ~185lbs with gear on.

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11 hours ago, DjPanJan said:

@DjPanJan

this video doesnt nearly look like what happened to mee. Is it possible to stay in the dip position for a few seconds? and why does the pedal snap in when its parallel to the ground again? i dipped backwards too after the forwards dip.

 

 

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7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 

he it has much less power headroom at higher speeds than all other 50km/h wheels. In my opinion the power capability of the 16X drops faster than what the rider can be expected to compensate for. Meaning, I think it’s probable that the crash was not your fault per se. A 50km/h wheel should be able to handle a good acceleration still at 40km/h.

 However, (some versions of) the 16X does not. Which is why I think the top speed of the 16X should be 40-45km/h.

this is totally my point. And i get used to a device by testriding it. How could I figure out that torque loss at my self? only with an accident. This is what makes me furios. 

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Thanks everyone for the discussion, I just read it all and it contains great safety insight and technical analysis.

I'll learn to ride on a V10F soon (my weight: 64kg), it it possible to make it fail to balance the same way as @EUC Endurist experience or would Inmotion's more conservative programming approach be inherently safer and the same situation almost impossible?

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5 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Thanks everyone for the discussion, I just read it all and it contains great safety insight and technical analysis.

I'll learn to ride on a V10F soon (my weight: 64kg), it it possible to make it fail to balance the same way as @EUC Endurist experience or would Inmotion's more conservative programming approach be inherently safer and the same situation almost impossible?

Every wheel can be overleaned - with some it's easier, with some it's harder.

A fixed speed tiltback is no real safety measure as the limit is speed and burden dependend. So with enough burden the speed limit can be brought below tiltback speed.

Some more details about overleans/wheel limit one can find in https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/7855-anatomy-of-an-overlean/?tab=comments#comment-107721

 

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Well my KS16X did something very similar although I’m pretty sure mine locked on me mid ride. Terrifying. I heard a verbal warning (barely) then as soon as it ended I had MASSIVE HARD WOBBLES and had to bail at speed. Nearly broke my hip so deffo not happy. 

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Can someone explain me the video of the ks16x dip? I can do something similiar myself by wanting to go fast and then immeadly slow down (lets say both of these actions take less than 0,5sec together). Is the dip in the video same stuff im talking about, or something different?

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On 8/19/2020 at 1:08 PM, Claire Chambers said:

Well my KS16X did something very similar although I’m pretty sure mine locked on me mid ride. Terrifying. I heard a verbal warning (barely) then as soon as it ended I had MASSIVE HARD WOBBLES and had to bail at speed. Nearly broke my hip so deffo not happy. 

Sorry about your accident,

Was the verbal warning associated with a hard pedal tiltback?

That could explain the massive wobble: a strong and unexpected tiltback makes you brake hard suddenly, which at speed is a common cause of wobble (especially if not prepared for it) 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/25/2020 at 10:22 AM, supercurio said:

Sorry about your accident,

Was the verbal warning associated with a hard pedal tiltback?

That could explain the massive wobble: a strong and unexpected tiltback makes you brake hard suddenly, which at speed is a common cause of wobble (especially if not prepared for it) 

Yeah I guess it could have been. I mean that’s a helluva tiltback. In all truth I have only ever felt tiltback on my Segway-Ninebot S-Plus and it wasn’t nearly as soft as that. But that’s certainly the best theory yet for what happened. If only I’d heard the verbal warning properly... 

 

I wish EUC World app had a feature to pump the verbals into your Bluetooth headphones 

Edited by Claire Chambers
Typo

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On 6/20/2020 at 7:44 PM, EUC Endurist said:

I could post MANY examples with rides that were between 40 and 50A max current. I will post only 5 for reference cause of spamming really bad here. maybe you understand why i felt very comfy riding 40 kmh and accelerating.

I have many more of those ride stats so wheres the problem with the previous posted? 

though these are among the highest stats in my darknessbot logs:

 

IMG_4203.png

IMG_4204.png

IMG_4209.png

IMG_4211.png

Are these of your 16x?

At 90kg?

I get warning beeps at 46.x kmh with my 95kg

Never was able to reach higher speed than 47kmh and then i get pushback

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