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NunoF

MSP (high-speed/2000W) long ride / partial range test

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I've been riding for about as long as you.  My first day on a wheel was March 10th.  I also just got the MSP speed, coming from a Kingsong 18XL (a wheel I absolutely love, somewhere around 700 miles).  What drove me to get a 2nd primary wheel was watching all the youtubers and seeing what happens when they get an issue with a wheel, and actually can't ride.  I did not want that to happen.

It is an amazing wheel.  I'm a lightweight at 140lbs/64kg and figured the speed would have plenty of torque, and it does.  It can do any of the hills the 18XL can do, and I haven't got any pads to leverage/hang on to it yet either.  I found acceleration to be smooth and stable.  I did have a pretty bad wobble braking once, but I controlled it and feel that is tied to inexperience on the wheel.

my only critique so far is that headlight. sure it's bright, but that high angle is not well thought out.  I made a pretty simple shroud to block the high angle (and reflect that light straight down).  I asked people last night how obnoxious it was (without the shroud) and people told me it was annoying.  I asked people again tonight with the shroud on, and zero complaints. shroud is definitely at phase 1.0

Gotway MSP light shroud 2.jpeg

Gotway MSP light shroud 1.jpeg

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Thank you @NunoF, that was very nicely written and formatted. Glad to hear you are happy with the wheel.
Also very interesting to see how much wind affected the battery usage.

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 Am also considering getting the MSP (over the 18XL) as I like to ride off-road fairly aggressively. One concern I have is the aggressive pedal angle. I already have problems with my arches aching after about 15 minutes of riding. Is it possible to change out the MSP pedals to the Nicola pedals that you mentioned for a flatter platform?

Which Nicola pedals would you recommend? Thanks!

 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Louiei said:

 Am also considering getting the MSP (over the 18XL) as I like to ride off-road fairly aggressively. One concern I have is the aggressive pedal angle. I already have problems with my arches aching after about 15 minutes of riding. Is it possible to change out the MSP pedals to the Nicola pedals that you mentioned for a flatter platform?

Which Nicola pedals would you recommend? Thanks!

 

If you buy the MSP from EWheels, it comes with the Nikola pedals installed.

If you take stock Nikola pedals and install them on the MSP, the dihedral angle is actually much worse. EWheels has Gotway machine the Nikola pedals so that they have the same angle as the MSuper pedals that the rest of the world gets.

If you want them flatter (after riding it for awhile to be sure your body can't adjust) you'll have to file/machine the pedals to get them flatter.

Edited by Marty Backe

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Thanks for the advice. I'll check out EWheels. Much appreciated!

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Ben Hatfield said:

I've been riding for about as long as you.  My first day on a wheel was March 10th.  I also just got the MSP speed, coming from a Kingsong 18XL (a wheel I absolutely love, somewhere around 700 miles).  What drove me to get a 2nd primary wheel was watching all the youtubers and seeing what happens when they get an issue with a wheel, and actually can't ride.  I did not want that to happen.

It is an amazing wheel.  I'm a lightweight at 140lbs/64kg and figured the speed would have plenty of torque, and it does.  It can do any of the hills the 18XL can do, and I haven't got any pads to leverage/hang on to it yet either.  I found acceleration to be smooth and stable.  I did have a pretty bad wobble braking once, but I controlled it and feel that is tied to inexperience on the wheel.

my only critique so far is that headlight. sure it's bright, but that high angle is not well thought out.  I made a pretty simple shroud to block the high angle (and reflect that light straight down).  I asked people last night how obnoxious it was (without the shroud) and people told me it was annoying.  I asked people again tonight with the shroud on, and zero complaints. shroud is definitely at phase 1.0

Gotway MSP light shroud 2.jpeg

Gotway MSP light shroud 1.jpeg

Nice shroud!And great idea, I should do the same before I head out at night. Thanks for sharing! I like your terminology about a “2nd primary” wheel! In my case I feel the 16 X became the “1st Secondary wheel” ;)  , seriously, the only reason I can imagine now wanting to ride the 16X is if I need to go shopping and/or go somewhere where I have to hand walk the wheel nothing beats the Kingsong trolley handles, or if the MSP Is not charged/doesn’t work. I went out today and did a 16 mile ride in city traffic and it was pure pleasure riding essentially at the same speed or faster than City street average,  this thing is truly fast, and it has such a big safety margin. 28-30 mph is my new normal comfort cruising speed, 

Edited by NunoF
Typo

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, NunoF said:

Nice shroud!And great idea, I should do the same before I head out at night. Thanks for sharing! I like your terminology about a “2nd primary” wheel! In my case I feel the 16 X became the “1st Secondary wheel” ;)  , seriously, the only reason I can imagine now wanting to ride the 16X is if I need to go shopping and/or go somewhere where I have to hand walk the wheel nothing beats the Kingsong trolley handles, or if the MSP Is not charged/doesn’t work. I went out today and did a 16 mile ride in city traffic and it was pure pleasure riding essentially at the same speed or faster than City street average,  this thing is truly fast, and it has such a big safety margin. 28-30 mph is my new normal comfort cruising speed, 

thanks - a day later it occurs to me I probably should of spoken to the quality of your original post before launching into my own experience!  - completely agree with Mike's comment above.

I'd be very interested in your ultimate findings with range.  I'm going to try and really push range in the next week myself.

One interesting thing - after my ride today, I got the battery down to 20% at standstill, and I tried a wheel lift/free spin to see where it cut out.  54mph.  I'm not exactly sure exactly what that means, but it seems like I was plenty safe riding at 20mph once I went below 30%.

on the shroud - I definitely need to make an improved version.  it's basically just cardboard/reflective foil and 1/8 inch sticky back foam.  The core is a toilet paper role I cut lengthwise and flattened, which maintained some of that arc from side to side - then I cut that into the shape seen.  The reflection of the inner material scatters all over the ground in front of the wheel in an interesting way, but a better/smoother reflective interior would likely reflect more light straight down.

Edited by Ben Hatfield

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3 hours ago, Louiei said:

 Am also considering getting the MSP (over the 18XL) as I like to ride off-road fairly aggressively. One concern I have is the aggressive pedal angle. I already have problems with my arches aching after about 15 minutes of riding. Is it possible to change out the MSP pedals to the Nicola pedals that you mentioned for a flatter platform?

Which Nicola pedals would you recommend? Thanks!

 

I have both wheels and plan to really put the MSP speed through its paces over the next week+.  I just don't think it would be fair to compare 750 miles on the 18XL vs 100 on the MSP.  That being said - don't underestimate the 18XL:  smooth, silent, quick, agile, beautiful, robust - plenty of torque and a safe (all be it restricted) 30mph upper limit.  I got the MSP speed specifically for it's upper end and ability to cruise above 30mph - and as a 2nd primary wheel for really long days riding, or if something goes wrong with the other.  I can also share now - if only I could convince some friends!

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2 hours ago, Ben Hatfield said:

I have both wheels and plan to really put the MSP speed through its paces over the next week+.  I just don't think it would be fair to compare 750 miles on the 18XL vs 100 on the MSP.  That being said - don't underestimate the 18XL:  smooth, silent, quick, agile, beautiful, robust - plenty of torque and a safe (all be it restricted) 30mph upper limit.  I got the MSP speed specifically for it's upper end and ability to cruise above 30mph - and as a 2nd primary wheel for really long days riding, or if something goes wrong with the other.  I can also share now - if only I could convince some friends!

Yes, a very fine range report. Thank you for that. I have the high torque model MSP due to my size. It was good to read about the speed model.

@NunoF @Ben Hatfield  We are all at about the same experience level and have a very similar wheel collection. You guys seem more comfortable at higher speeds, and I would be too. But at my size, my mental processes tell me inertia will not be as kind to me if some thing happens. I try some speed occasionally, and it is fine, then I remember my inertia factor! I've settled in on an 18 - 19 mph cruising speed and shoot up momentarily to 23 - 25 as situations dictate.

I've never been able to, or wanted to, challenge the range on any wheel, as I'm only good for a couple hours at a time. But I still want a range capable wheel for an unforeseen need, safety buffer, and for charging convenience.

I fully agree with your 18XL description. It is plenty powerful, even for my 230 - 240 pounds. I'm still on the MSP honeymoon. But like you guys, I am starting to classify the wheels as '1st primary', '2nd primary', '1st alternate', etc. And if I may pile on, I like that terminology also. It describes whats going on in the brain. The Monster was my 2nd wheel and I racked up some mileage like crazy after the 16X taught me to ride. Then it took a back seat to the 18XL and then the MSP. So I wonder what the future me will pick to ride when honeymoons are over and each wheel looks just as charming. And I also have the same intent and problem as shown in red above!

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Posted (edited)
On 6/4/2020 at 3:52 AM, NunoF said:

Here is the data from my first long ride on my new MSP High-Speed from eWheels:

Brief summary: out and return flat city/bike lane ride of total 34.5 miles with moderate head wind/tail winds for each half of the course. Battery went from 100%/ fully charged down to 37%. Avg speed was about 18 mph overall but I had to press hard against the wind on the first leg of the course.  Riding weight 180 Lbs. Feels like I can easily get 50+ miles range out of the wheel easy. 

My first impressions about the wheel and riding experience:

(Previous experience) - I’m a beginner, started riding in March this year, I have about 100 km on a KS14D, 700 Km on a KS16X and 200 km on a Monster V3/100V. The MSP High-Speed is my 4th wheel which I have just received. I only have 50 miles on the wheel but I already absolutely love it. After the wonderful experience on the 16X I was skeptical about finding another wheel that I would like better, the MSP high speed did it.

 

Lift wheel cut-off at 100% battery is 61 mph (98 km/h)

 

how much does it weight, can you measure it pls ? should be around 24 kg

Edited by EMA

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6 hours ago, EMA said:

how much does it weight, can you measure it pls ? should be around 24 kg

@EMAThank you so much for asking me to measure it! I had wrongly assumed that the MSP-HS was heavier than the 16X, it isn't ! (negligible difference!). Interesting how I had made a bad assumption.

Here is the measured weight, I'm also sharing the Monster and the KS16X weights measured in the same scale

MSP-HS: 55.0 Lbs  (24.9 Kg)

KS-16X: 54.3 Lbs  (24.6 Kg)

GW Monster V3/100V: 63.1 Lbs  (28.6 Kg)

 

 

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21 hours ago, Ben Hatfield said:

thanks - a day later it occurs to me I probably should of spoken to the quality of your original post before launching into my own experience!  - completely agree with Mike's comment above.

I'd be very interested in your ultimate findings with range.  I'm going to try and really push range in the next week myself.

One interesting thing - after my ride today, I got the battery down to 20% at standstill, and I tried a wheel lift/free spin to see where it cut out.  54mph.  I'm not exactly sure exactly what that means, but it seems like I was plenty safe riding at 20mph once I went below 30%.

 

@Ben Hatfield thank you for your kind words regarding my post, it’s probably a side effect of my professional activity.

let us know what you find range wise. I’ll do the same.

thanks for sharing the 20% lift cut out speed, seems to provide us with plenty of safety margin as you say.  I’ve also been trying to keep it under 25 mph when below 50%battery , but seems we can do 30 mph all the way down to the 20%. 

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On 6/5/2020 at 7:15 AM, Ben Hatfield said:

thanks - a day later it occurs to me I probably should of spoken to the quality of your original post before launching into my own experience!  - completely agree with Mike's comment above.

I'd be very interested in your ultimate findings with range.  I'm going to try and really push range in the next week myself.

One interesting thing - after my ride today, I got the battery down to 20% at standstill, and I tried a wheel lift/free spin to see where it cut out.  54mph.  I'm not exactly sure exactly what that means, but it seems like I was plenty safe riding at 20mph once I went below 30%.

on the shroud - I definitely need to make an improved version.  it's basically just cardboard/reflective foil and 1/8 inch sticky back foam.  The core is a toilet paper role I cut lengthwise and flattened, which maintained some of that arc from side to side - then I cut that into the shape seen.  The reflection of the inner material scatters all over the ground in front of the wheel in an interesting way, but a better/smoother reflective interior would likely reflect more light straight down.

not 100% sure but it start beep at 25mph when you reach 20% battery 

you can easy do 30mph with 30%, but you'll drain battery very fast :thumbup:

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4 hours ago, NunoF said:

@Ben Hatfield thank you for your kind words regarding my post, it’s probably a side effect of my professional activity.

let us know what you find range wise. I’ll do the same.

thanks for sharing the 20% lift cut out speed, seems to provide us with plenty of safety margin as you say.  I’ve also been trying to keep it under 25 mph when below 50%battery , but seems we can do 30 mph all the way down to the 20%

yes exactly 

11 hours ago, NunoF said:

@EMAThank you so much for asking me to measure it! I had wrongly assumed that the MSP-HS was heavier than the 16X, it isn't ! (negligible difference!). Interesting how I had made a bad assumption.

Here is the measured weight, I'm also sharing the Monster and the KS16X weights measured in the same scale

MSP-HS: 55.0 Lbs  (24.9 Kg)

KS-16X: 54.3 Lbs  (24.6 Kg)

GW Monster V3/100V: 63.1 Lbs  (28.6 Kg)

 

 

thanks for doing it, i was curious about the weight difference between MSP and MSP-hs because right now this should be only on the motor size.
On my scale MSP coming at 25.2kg with classic msx pedals

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My MSP speed feedback is on hold unfortunately - Don't want to say it, but I managed to damaged my new MSP. 

I clipped a pedal riding backwards that sent the MSP into a 'top' spin, where it hit a curb.  I came off the side in a hurry, and am 100% fine.  Pretty lucky really, it all happened really fast.  But it was super awkward and unnecessary.  Disappointing to say the least

The left pedal is bent out from the body, and there is a tire wobble and internal tire rub.  Other than the pedal, the MSP still looks brand new.  It took a weird hit at an odd angle.

Guess the good news?  I still have the Kingsong while I figure this out

msp bent pedal.jpg

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Oh no, sorry to hear about the damage,  but glad you are well, it’s a lot easier to heal the wheel. Validates your point about 2nd primary....You probably need a new tire/rim/pedal base set up. It’s fairly easy to replace it once you receive the new parts. My new Monster V3/100 V came with a tire/rim wobble from the beginning (no rub, but that caused an annoying riding wobble) and the dealer sent me a brand new set up (it was a lot faster than sending the wheel back to them, and I was fine replacing it myself). let us know what the damage is and when you are back on it. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, NunoF said:

I just crashed my MSP HS as well, lost control going fast (about 35 mph) downhill on an overpass, as I feared gaining too much speed I decided to brake but broke too hard which caused an instant severe wobble, I realized I was not going to maintain control of the wheel and while trying to brake further I let myself fall backwards on the asphalt. I was probably going around 25-30 mph when I hit the ground, I was fully padded with full protective equipment (hard toe shoes, shin pads, knee pads, upper leg, bottom and waist pads, chest, leather gloves, wrist and lower arm pads, elbow, shoulder and back pads, full face helmet) so no injuries other than very light road rash on a leg (I was wearing shorts under the padding) and on one arm.  Other than that I have nothing else and no soreness of any kind, key was the fully padded under shorts that cushioned the first impact, and I think the fact that I fell in a downslope helped keeping the skidding motion longer dissipating the energy more gradually rather than a sudden stop. The wrist pads and gloves were heavily scratched and damaged, showing how much force they took. Overall It was surprisingly smooth to fall and slid down the road at that speed (for perspective I had numerous hang gliding crash landings at about the same speed and faster over my 25 years of hang-gliding, with the added vertical component...,  one of which was nearly fatal with life threatening injuries, that took 2 surgeries and more than one year of physical  therapy to recover) a couple of road biking crashes too so I’m no stranger to falling. . The wheel went flying and tumbling down the road, luckily didn’t hit anyone and there were no cars during the entire time even though I was sliding right in the middle of the driving lane. I was able to ride the wheel back home but the case is damaged and twisted causing a tire rub, I think it’s just the case, I did a lift speed test and the wheel seems to be spinning straight. I’ll evaluate the damage better tomorrow. I can’t overstate the importance of gearing up, I would have gotten badly injured if I wasn’t wearing full protection. 

I am sorry to hear that.  Really glad you are ok, and hope your wheel suffered minimal damage.  Probably pretty intense experience.

I think I hit 35 once on the first day with the MSP, and it was super clean accelerating - but then I went into a scary wobble just beginning to slow down (not even really braking), so I evened out the wheel with my feet and rode out of it.  I decided to keep it at or under 30 at that point until I felt more comfortable on the wheel.  I think it's something about the MSP wider stance that makes wobbles easier when braking - honestly don't know though.

Yea - gear all the time.  I've had a few times where I'm just going a few blocks to the market or something, but each time I tell myself to at least put on minimal gear.  I gear up about as much as you it sounds generally speaking, just incase.

It seems like there is a lot of wheel incidents happening in the last few weeks.  I'm not a big believer in luck or those sorts of things, but I keep reading and hearing about different crashes and EUC malfunctions of late (I'm right in the middle of it with mine).  When my crash happened, it really was one of my better days on the wheel from a fun factor point of view.  I started to really feel that 100v power by really leveraging the wheel.  But then it came to a halt in a hurry!  Like you (now thinking back) so glad there wasn't people and cars around, besides being unscathed.  I rode the wheel home with that rub at a slow pace - probably an experience others have had from time to time.

If you were wondering, I did send mine back to eWheels for repairs.  So it will be interesting how that all pans out.

edit:  just out of curiosity, where was/is tire pressure at?

Edited by Ben Hatfield
question

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31 minutes ago, Ben Hatfield said:

edit:  just out of curiosity, where was/is tire pressure at?

30 psi (before), didn’t measure after the crash.

I may have to send it back to eWheels as well or get the parts and fix it at home, the trolley handle came out and got bent (a common issue with the MSX/MSP line I had heard about it before). The pedals seem to be ok (not bent), but the whole case seems to be bent sideways causing the tire rub. I’ll find out more tomorrow.

luckily I still have 3 working wheels to ride (but I’ll miss the MSP if I can’t fix it right away :( )

 

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3 hours ago, NunoF said:

I just crashed my MSP HS as well, lost control going fast (about 35 mph) downhill on an overpass, as I feared gaining too much speed I decided to brake but broke too hard which caused an instant severe wobble, I realized I was not going to maintain control of the wheel and while trying to brake further I let myself fall backwards on the asphalt. I was probably going around 25-30 mph when I hit the ground, I was fully padded with full protective equipment (hard toe shoes, shin pads, knee pads, upper leg, bottom and waist pads, chest, leather gloves, wrist and lower arm pads, elbow, shoulder and back pads, full face helmet) so no injuries other than very light road rash on a leg (I was wearing shorts under the padding) and on one arm.  Other than that I have nothing else and no soreness of any kind, key was the fully padded under shorts that cushioned the first impact, and I think the fact that I fell in a downslope helped keeping the skidding motion longer dissipating the energy more gradually rather than a sudden stop. The wrist pads and gloves were heavily scratched and damaged, showing how much force they took. Overall It was surprisingly smooth to fall and slid down the road at that speed (for perspective I had numerous hang gliding crash landings at about the same speed and faster over my 25 years of hang-gliding, with the added vertical component...,  one of which was nearly fatal with life threatening injuries, that took 2 surgeries and more than one year of physical  therapy to recover) a couple of road biking crashes too so I’m no stranger to falling. . The wheel went flying and tumbling down the road, luckily didn’t hit anyone and there were no cars during the entire time even though I was sliding right in the middle of the driving lane. I was able to ride the wheel back home but the case is damaged and twisted causing a tire rub, I think it’s just the case, I did a lift speed test and the wheel seems to be spinning straight. I’ll evaluate the damage better tomorrow. I can’t overstate the importance of gearing up, I would have gotten badly injured if I wasn’t wearing full protection. 

glad you are ok !

i don't want to be a teacher but remember in case of wobble, push immediately hard on one leg/direction ;)

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54 minutes ago, EMA said:

glad you are ok !

i don't want to be a teacher but remember in case of wobble, push immediately hard on one leg/direction ;)

Thank you! I never mind being taught, and I  didn’t know that technique to counter a wobble, I’ll try it next time I get into one! I’ll try practicing more braking technique ( at lower speeds ...) which is likely to induce wobbles.  

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