One Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 2 hours ago, paddylaz said: Just for the complete electrical amateurs out there (translation: me). How DOES a software update damage actual hardware? I'm a bit confused about the mofsets and all this sort of stuff. I mean can a computer or phone firmware update damage the hardware? I mean I know you can 'brick' a phone/laptop but you're not actually DAMAGING the hardware are you? I'm no engieneer but think the last firmware update shows a software can damage hardware. I've been riding the Ninebot for more then 1300 km without any problem and always felt save. Firmware 1.2.9 destroyed my Ninebot - and I'm not happy about this. Hope that any others who had the same bad luck didn't get injured! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 14 hours ago, Vanopolis said: The wording of the update suggestion makes it seem like it will lock the device if you don't update. Not true, and you don't have to update to use the app or the bot. I thought I read something similar saying I would not be able using my Ninebot without this update. So I updated to firmeware 1.2.9 and lost my lovely bot... Does anyone have a screenshot of the update notice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranium Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 2 hours ago, One said: I thought I read something similar saying I would not be able using my Ninebot without this update. So I updated to firmeware 1.2.9 and lost my lovely bot... Does anyone have a screenshot of the update notice? I put screenshots here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 15 hours ago, paddylaz said: Just for the complete electrical amateurs out there (translation: me). How DOES a software update damage actual hardware? I'm a bit confused about the mofsets and all this sort of stuff. I mean can a computer or phone firmware update damage the hardware? I mean I know you can 'brick' a phone/laptop but you're not actually DAMAGING the hardware are you? Like @Cranium said, in case of EUCs, the most likely thing is high current shooting through the mosfets and burning them. The picture cranium showed is a 2 half-bridge directional controller for 1-phase motor, EUCs actually use 3-phase motors, and the circuit is more like this (3 half bridges): But the basic idea is the same: one "high-side" mosfet (marked Q1, Q3 and Q5 in the diagram) conducting, one "low-side" mosfet (marked Q2, Q4 and Q6 in the diagram) conducting different bridges, so the current runs through two phases of the motor at a time. If both mosfets of a single bridge are conducting at the same time (like Q1 and Q2 in the picture) due to timing error, the current path won't go through the motor phases, but straight through those two mosfets into the ground. Mosfets have very small internal resistance, causing a very large current to shoot-through the bridge, and will likely burn the mosfets. Another way I think damage could occur would be to drive too high PWM-duty cycle (allowing high voltage through the bridges) to mosfets, even when they're on different bridges, when the motor is not turning yet, which again causes a large current to pass through, as the back-EMF of the motor is very small (large potential difference). The BMS's have overcurrent/short circuit -protections, that cut the power at very high currents, but there's small delay before these react, so it may not save the mosfets. The idea that hardware cannot be damaged through software is a myth, but of course depends on the hardware too. It's actually possible to destroy a computer hard drive, CRT-monitor or floppy-disk drive with software. For "traditional" hard drives (spinning discs with moving arms holding the read/write-heads, not SSDs), depending on make & model, there can be commands that can be sent directly to it to control the arm position that moves the read/write-heads, don't remember the specifics, but it's possible to burn the motor running the arm (or snap the arm?). Similar techniques exist for floppy drives. Old CRT-monitors that don't "black out" between changing refresh rates can be burned by switching the frequency fast enough... I believe modern car engines could also be destroyed through software (things that come to mind would be something like over-revving the engine until the pistons cut, mess with fuel-air injection ratio, spark timings...). Typically anything with software-controlled mechanical parts is at risk, but also (sometimes) electronics can be fried, like the Ninebot-fiascos show. EDIT: Also computer motherboards that allow software access to BIOS could potentially fry your CPU, if they can set the clock rate too high or up the CPU voltage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlenewiley Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 No, i never tried the new firmware V1.2.9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 1 hour ago, marlenewiley said: No, i never tried the new firmware V1.2.9. It's not new by now - imho it's also not available anymore. Actual firmware version since quite some time is 1.3.5 - seems quite stable. Just introduces more or less a high pitched noise (at 8 kHz from the PWM signal). The loudness depends imho on the "state of some wheel parts" somehow. I presume that mine got louder after an exhaustive (for the wheel - not for me ) hill climb including quite some offroad riding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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